When will a second Modeate allow 5?

I'm in the beginning stage of planning a WDW trip for late next year. At that time, I'll have a 9yo, 7yo, and my smallest will be 3 and about 4 months. So you know what that means... Spend a ton for a suite or a deluxe room, or stay at POR.

My wife and I don't have fond memories of POR AB from our honeymoon. WDW was awesome and led to 6 more trips over the last decade. But we never went back to POR for fear they'd shove us back in the Alligator Bayou. The decor was bad, the buildings look like garbage compared to the mansions, and the bus service is the worst of all moderates.

When will Disney just throw these Murphy beds into Coronado. It's the same layout. Seems like it would be easy. I'm just about at the point where I tell my travel agent to book it for 4, shove the 3 kids into one bed, and we'll buy the 5th ticket separately.

I saw some pictures of test rooms at CBR last year. The pics I saw included the same type of TV stand that houses the new "Murphy type" fold out beds that sleep the 5th person at POR. Unfortunately, I never heard about or saw anything, after that.

I also read that the studios at Wilderness Lodge Villas will also be getting the fold out tv stand/beds. Not sure when it's expected to be done tho.

I agree with you that it would be nice to have a few more options for 5. We are a family of 4, but travel with 5 often. POR is the best inexpensive option for 5, but it's by far our least favorite of the mods. Just spent a week there over Thanksgiving that didn't make me change my mind about the resort. There is nothing special or unique about riverside, in my opinion. I will probably never stay there again.

You might find it more relaxing to get 2 connecting value rooms. The door between can be left open. 4 beds, 2 baths. We have done this a lot and it is a relief to spread out.
You will have to book with 1 adult name on each. The initial reservation request should include connecting rooms for children.

I feel your pain. We had the same problem when my oldest son was younger and went with us and we also had a niece that lived with us and went for several years. For a while we had 5 in a room and for several years we had 6. The options are very limited. We stayed in the cabins at Fort Wilderness for a while but then they decided to reclasify them to deluxe and more than doubled the rate to over $300 per night. Then we always got a golf cart so we didn't waste so much time waiting on the internal buses. It just got to the point the cost of staying there, along with the inconvenience just got to great to justify.

We tried two rooms at all star movies one year and sports the next. Absolutely hated both places and will never ever stay at one of the values again......ever. I will just not go before I will ever subject myself to one of them again.

We then tried Port Orleans once and absolutely hated the place. The buses were horrible, the resort is a spread out mess with confusing paths making it hard to find your way around. We were what seemed like a mile from the main building with the restaurants even though we requested to be close. We just plain didn't like it.

After that year we just threw our hands up in the air and decided to try staying offsite. We stayed at an Embassy Suites and it was great, even had free full breakfast and free drinks in the evening. All of that for less than one room at a value resort onsite. We also found we could get in the car, drive in, park and be in the gates in half the time it was taking us to use the buses when staying onsite. We haven't stayed onsite since. Staying offsite isn't for everyone. If you don't drive down like we do, not having a car and having to rent one adds some cost and hassle that some people just don't want to deal with.

Things may change again in the future but for now, it has been working out great for us though. For instance, we don't even have a trip planned to WDW for next year because of the FP+ fiasco. We are going to Disneyland instead. :mickey:

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Originally Posted by 1DisneyNut

For instance, we don't even have a trip planned to WDW for next year because of the FP+ fiasco. We are going to Disneyland instead. :mickey:

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This is exactly what I'm dealing with! With all this fastpass+ mess, and then finding the cheapest Disney accomodations at one of the resorts we can't stand, we're thinking of a repeat to Disneyland next year. We just went to Disneyland last month and it really was great. That said, I do miss having two extra parks and a vacation that lasts 8 or 9 days in the parks - you just can't do that at DL without going crazy:fresh:. Still, I can save a lot of money driving and the kids are fine with SoCal. Never thought the day would come when DL would beat out WDW. I'll have to wait and see.

Wow, all of the POR hate. OK, well, I too wish that there were more options (outside of the Deluxe) that sleep 5. We are a family of five, but within 18 months our oldest will be leaving, as he'll be graduating and heading out to college. We've stayed at POR AB about five times, and absolutely love it.

However, I agree with the bus service complaints. But we just started to drive our own vehicle instead (since we had it anyway). We *never* ride the WDW busses anymore.

As far as it being big and confusing...yes, agreed. However, we've never been in a building close to the main building, and the last time we were there, I timed a walk to the food court. Five minutes. I mean, really, that's not bad. I swear that the last time we were at WDW, at the Beach Club, our room was farther from the main lobby than that. And it was all indoors.

But, yes, I agree with the OP that there should be more rooms that sleep 5 at an affordable price level.

Doesn't AofA offer rooms for 5+ guests?

I certainly feel the pain, with 3 DD our last two trips in 2010 and 2012 required us to stay at POR-AB. I explored the option of upgrading to a Deluxe but simply couldn't justify in an sense basically doubling the cost in order to stay at the Poly. With the free dining (at the time) for a family of 5 with 3 deemed adults, for 10 days, the free dining at the moderate was a slam dunk.

Obviously personal preference always comes into play, but we love the POR-AB section. IMHO, POR has the best pool of all the moderates and a decent water slide that the kids love. A good food court, the boat to DTD, and of course YeeHaw Bob at the River Roost. Those that complain about the paths and the confusion, I don't get it, its not that difficult and I personally find the walks and the garden theming around AB to be extremely calming. While I would very much like to try upgrade to deluxe accomodations, I'm fine being "forced' into POR.

I will say that the one draw back is room space. When they did the refurb they actually reduced the amount of closet/drawer space and you do need to be creative. Our last trip we brought down one of those hanging/folding sweater baskets that has like six compartments and you can hang it from the closet rod, great for socks, underwear t-shirts and such.

With regards to other moderates. I don't know the exact reasons, but thought that I heard that having 5 in a room was more fire code issues than anything else. So I don't know that simply throwing a murphy bed in CBR or POFQ would work if fire codes aren't met.

Last thought and again being in the same boat as Gator. We are looking at a late 2014 trip and one thought I am entertaining is to look at renting points at one of the Disney Vacation Club locations. This would put us into a deluxe accommodation at a much cheaper price then booking Poly or BC/YC. I know you lose some services (towel/trash etc.) but the savings make it worth it if you can pull it off. Final factor might be what if any discounts Disney offers at the time (Free dining etc).

Good luck.

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Originally Posted by The Hitchhiking Ghost

Last thought and again being in the same boat as Gator. We are looking at a late 2014 trip and one thought I am entertaining is to look at renting points at one of the Disney Vacation Club locations. This would put us into a deluxe accommodation at a much cheaper price then booking Poly or BC/YC. I know you lose some services (towel/trash etc.) but the savings make it worth it if you can pull it off. Final factor might be what if any discounts Disney offers at the time (Free dining etc).
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That last point is important to me. If I can get into a moderate at rack prices and then get the free dining plan, the WDW trip is in my affordable range. If I rent points and go to the GF villas, I get it at about the same price as a moderate, but the food is no longer free/the room isn't discounted.

This party of 5 thing sure does make a mess of vacations.

There is a part of me that would like nothing more than to disconnect from the "free" dining. Our 2012 trip the value of the free dining was nearly $1900 and while I am fully aware that "yes I know I wouldn't have ordered that much food, and yes I know I am giving up the room discount" free dining for a family of 5 (with 3 adults) is nearly impossible to walk away from when attached to a moderate. Comparing $1900 in savings to $600 is a no-brainer.

I'm going to be watching what kind of discounts come out. I know one for accommodations was just released but it will be interesting to see if free dining continues in any form. Unfortunately our time frame for going is normally after Thanksgiving, so most likely will have to wait until July to see if there will be discounts.

While I've never rented points, doing the math, renting points (while negating the free dining) does give you a substantial room discount at the deluxes, but still puts you over the moderate level budget that I generally seek.

2012 we had the perfect storm, free dining was announced and airfares bottomed out over the summer. Not sure where we stand now, just crossing our fingers.

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Originally Posted by The Hitchhiking Ghost

Last thought and again being in the same boat as Gator. We are looking at a late 2014 trip and one thought I am entertaining is to look at renting points at one of the Disney Vacation Club locations. This would put us into a deluxe accommodation at a much cheaper price then booking Poly or BC/YC. I know you lose some services (towel/trash etc.) but the savings make it worth it if you can pull it off. Final factor might be what if any discounts Disney offers at the time (Free dining etc).

Good luck.

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Can you explain this a little further? I've heard others say this, but every time I research it, it seems renting points would still cost us (family of 5 as well) more than a standard room at a deluxe hotel. (The main reason was the DVC that would accommodate 5 were primarily 1 bedroom suites rather than studio suites.) The site I was using to calculate the points and cost of points is David's DVC rental. Is there a more economical way for renting points than the $14/point charged by David's DVC rental?

BTW, The one exception was the GF Studio, but I was told by David's site that it is hard to get a rental there due to the newness of the resort. Basically told me I wouldn't get a GF Studio without saying it bluntly.

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Originally Posted by BJSforVols

Can you explain this a little further? I've heard others say this, but every time I research it, it seems renting points would still cost us (family of 5 as well) more than a standard room at a deluxe hotel. (The main reason was the DVC that would accommodate 5 were primarily 1 bedroom suites rather than studio suites.) The site I was using to calculate the points and cost of points is David's DVC rental. Is there a more economical way for renting points than the $14/point charged by David's DVC rental?

BTW, The one exception was the GF Studio, but I was told by David's site that it is hard to get a rental there due to the newness of the resort. Basically told me I wouldn't get a GF Studio without saying it bluntly.

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First, a caveat, I've never done this, but I think I understand how it works. For the analysis, keep in mind that you are comparing the cost of rental points to full rack rates.

My example is that I would look at staying at OKW - 1 Bdr. For my time period, value season, according to the point charts it would cost me 157 points for a weekly stay. You might be able to find a rental store slightly lower than $14 a point, but I'll use your amount. So 157 pts needed x $14 p/pt translates into a final cost of $2,198 for 1 week in a 1bdr @ OKW. Going to Disney's website and putting in that same week, with a family of 5, 3 kids, I get an average room rate of $536 p/night. So $536 p/night x 7 nights translates into a final cost of $3,752 for the same accommodations, or $1,554 more to book through Disney.

Two things to keep in mind, 1) I used the non-discounted rack rate as provided by Disney and 2) the p/night avg cost rack rate includes all applicable taxes.

Now, if Disney announces a 30% offer which includes some of its villas, which it often does, then that $3,752 drops to around $2600 which means you'd save about $400 booking using bought rental pts vs. discounted rack rates.

One hidden savings as I noted above, when renting points you are not paying that 12% in taxes, which at the deluxe level is probably an additional $40-50 p/night.

I've heard that if you rent points directly from a DVC owner you can get them as cheap as $10 pt, maybe less depending on their circumstances, but there is a lot of trust involved. My understanding is that from the initial reservation to the point of any changes (adding DME for example) you may make, it all has to be done by the DVC owner, even if your name is on the reservation. Plus, most likely they will require full payment from you in advance, so again, lots of trust issues and comfort levels here. Going with a reputable rental store adds to the cost $300-500 but does give you more assurances.

I ran the same scenario for a SV room at the Polynesian and for all purposes it was the same results. The average room rate (non-discounted) at the Poly with taxes was an avg $529 p/night.

One thing I just thought of and didn't analyze. If you are looking to rent points to stay at a regular Deluxe resort, forget it, I've heard (and I think at one time I confirmed this) that its a terrible use of points because they charge way more pts for a regular deluxe room then they do villas. So your savings is in comparison to staying at a deluxe vs. staying at one of the (9?) vacation club villas.

I think if you go over to the DVC forum you will find more answers, but basically if you can rent pts. vs paying rack rates, you will save a bundle, if you stay at one of the DVC properties.

Your analysis sounds good, but it doesn't add up. First, I'm comparing renting points for villas versus reserving deluxe SV rooms at resorts suchas the BC, BW, and YC.

First, I must be reading David's point calculator incorrectly. It indicates 199 points would be required for a 1 bedroom villa at OKW during the value season which would equate to $2786 at $14/point. If I put that same date range into Disney's website for a BC, SV room, the total (taxes included) would be $2859.76 which is almost identical to the cost of renting points for the villa at OKW. That's the biggest obstacle I'm overcoming regarding considering the point rental as an option for us.

Please understand that I am not trying to debate but rather understand what I may be missing. I put my logic out there so you would understand how I'm calculating it and possibly explain how I mus-calculating something. If my analysis is accurate, it's tough for me to really consider point rental when I would feel I could land some type of discount at some point with the BC, SV room that would make it less expensive than renting points for the 1 bedroom villa at OKW.

If points can be rented for $10ish, then I can understand the savings. I'll go over to the boards you recommend and try to educate myself a little more.

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Originally Posted by BJSforVols

Your analysis sounds good, but it doesn't add up. First, I'm comparing renting points for villas versus reserving deluxe SV rooms at resorts suchas the BC, BW, and YC.

First, I must be reading David's point calculator incorrectly. It indicates 199 points would be required for a 1 bedroom villa at OKW during the value season which would equate to $2786 at $14/point. If I put that same date range into Disney's website for a BC, SV room, the total (taxes included) would be $2859.76 which is almost identical to the cost of renting points for the villa at OKW. That's the biggest obstacle I'm overcoming regarding considering the point rental as an option for us.

Please understand that I am not trying to debate but rather understand what I may be missing. I put my logic out there so you would understand how I'm calculating it and possibly explain how I mus-calculating something. If my analysis is accurate, it's tough for me to really consider point rental when I would feel I could land some type of discount at some point with the BC, SV room that would make it less expensive than renting points for the 1 bedroom villa at OKW.

If points can be rented for $10ish, then I can understand the savings. I'll go over to the boards you recommend and try to educate myself a little more.

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Not quite sure what to say. I have a printed out point chart in front of me for 2014, OKW. Looking at 1 week during the Adventure season (12/1-14) it states for a 1 bdr villa its 157 points p/week. I do see that for Dream season that its 199 pts per week, so maybe your thought of what value season is, is the issue.

I just went onto Disney's website, plugged in travel dates of arriving 12/1 and departing 12/8 (7 nights) and got a non-discounted price of $3,145.52, for a BC SV room (lowest level) which included taxes. So to me that's about $3200 for BC and $2200 for OKW for the same week, or about $1000 savings.

Maybe you are not comparing the right seasons, maybe you have 6 nights instead of 7 or maybe you think you are picking up the taxes but aren't. When I do a week at BC the total is $2796 for the room plus $349.50 in taxes (12.5%), so your total doesn't look right to me. Or maybe you are factoring in a discounted room rate. The comparison I make is rented points for a DVC villa vs. full non-discounted room rack rates at a deluxe resort.

Hope this helps.

My only concern with renting points from a rental place is the refund policy. With Disney, a room only reservation at a DVC resort gives you the option to cancel with no questions 6 days prior to your trip. (sometimes, things do come up and plans change) At a rental site, is that an option? I was told by someone that it is non-refundable. Maybe someone can clarify if that is correct?

We usually rent DVC points for our vacation as we are a family of 5, so the only moderate we can stay at is POR. I enjoy POR, but we usually will only stay there 1-2 nights. For example, if we get into Orlando on a Thursday or Friday, we will stay at POR for those two nights and then switch to the DVC Resort for our Sunday-Thursday portion of the vacation (checking out on Friday). The points for the Friday and Saturday night stay at a DVC resort are huge and there is really no discount when you are renting points compared with staying in a non-DVC room.

BUT, the price per night when renting points is usually a little higher than a moderate, but that's okay with us as we prefer the deluxe accomodations at the lower price. If you're trying to keep it a moderate price, then you may be disappointed. There are some 1BDR that sleep 5. AKV is one of them and it had a second bathroom, which was a great perk.

David's site also charges a higher market rate for his rentals as I think he gives more protections, etc. I generally rent mine from a member that I've rented from in the past at about $10-11 a point. There are many others out there that rent points at that rate.

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Originally Posted by The Hitchhiking Ghost

Not quite sure what to say. I have a printed out point chart in front of me for 2014, OKW. Looking at 1 week during the Adventure season (12/1-14) it states for a 1 bdr villa its 157 points p/week. I do see that for Dream season that its 199 pts per week, so maybe your thought of what value season is, is the issue.

I just went onto Disney's website, plugged in travel dates of arriving 12/1 and departing 12/8 (7 nights) and got a non-discounted price of $3,145.52, for a BC SV room (lowest level) which included taxes. So to me that's about $3200 for BC and $2200 for OKW for the same week, or about $1000 savings.

Maybe you are not comparing the right seasons, maybe you have 6 nights instead of 7 or maybe you think you are picking up the taxes but aren't. When I do a week at BC the total is $2796 for the room plus $349.50 in taxes (12.5%), so your total doesn't look right to me. Or maybe you are factoring in a discounted room rate. The comparison I make is rented points for a DVC villa vs. full non-discounted room rack rates at a deluxe resort.

Hope this helps.

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I guess it is the date range. I didn't really know what was value season, so I Googled it. I used dates that must have been considered a different season for the site you are using. I used Pixie Dust Travel for determining the "season" and they consider Value season as parts of Jan - Feb and parts of July - Sept. The dates you listed is considered "fall" season on the Pixe Dust site I used.(Not sure I would consider Dec. "fall" lol) I was using 8/18 - 8/25. Hotel rooms were less for my date range than your date range ($408 vs $430) whereas point requirements were less for your date than my date range (199 vs 157).

Anyway, thanks a lot. listing your dates helped my "type A" mind understand the logic. I see how it is a significant savings for your date range. Unfortunately, the savings is not as significant for the date range we are considering. It seems the point values required reduce more significantly for the date range around early December than the rack room rates for do for their hotels.

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Originally Posted by Goofster

David's site also charges a higher market rate for his rentals as I think he gives more protections, etc. I generally rent mine from a member that I've rented from in the past at about $10-11 a point. There are many others out there that rent points at that rate.

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Do you mind sharing some of the other sites one might consider for renting points which could possibly offer better rates than David's? I've struck out with Google trying to find another site. The ones I find seem to be persons selling the DVC - not renting their points.

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Originally Posted by BJSforVols

I guess it is the date range. I didn't really know what was value season, so I Googled it. I used dates that must have been considered a different season for the site you are using. I used Pixie Dust Travel for determining the "season" and they consider Value season as parts of Jan - Feb and parts of July - Sept. The dates you listed is considered "fall" season on the Pixe Dust site I used.(Not sure I would consider Dec. "fall" lol) I was using 8/18 - 8/25. Hotel rooms were less for my date range than your date range ($408 vs $430) whereas point requirements were less for your date than my date range (199 vs 157).

Anyway, thanks a lot. listing your dates helped my "type A" mind understand the logic. I see how it is a significant savings for your date range. Unfortunately, the savings is not as significant for the date range we are considering. It seems the point values required reduce more significantly for the date range around early December than the rack room rates for do for their hotels.

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Huh:confused:

That is interesting. On the vacation club side of things, the points needed is lower in the December period vs. August, but if you do just regular resort rental at BC for those same periods its the opposite, the room cost drops in August and is higher in December, so you are correct, in that situation the dollar savings is very minimal.

Outside of dollar savings though, you have to weigh the amenities you'd get at a villa (or amenities you might lose) and make a decision based on that, like if having a kitchenette is really important would be one that stands out.