Walt Disney World Resort Unveils Bold New Vision for Downtown Disney

[KAT1811]

I will also point out (again) that nightlife is not for children. They should be in bed by then.

I should have clarified that I took a child to be those under the age of 18. I cannot imagine a 16 year old in bed at 9:00pm in WDW or anywhere else for that matter. Speaking from parental experience people raise their children differently and who "should be in bed by then" is often a parental choice. As a parent you learn that "norms" vary from child to child, family to family.

All I am saying is that it would be sad to exclude the family with teenagers (or younger) that would like a night out and would prefer to spend their vacation together as a family. I think that PI was originally designed to cater to adults and was not attractive to families that have children (again all under the age of 18). Most likely the reason it flopped.

I certainly hope to be able to spend a night out at La Nouba, DTD, and whatever ends up in place of PI when my little ones get a bit older. We often enjoy a night out with our oldest daughter and she's 11. On certain evenings we see a show, go to the movies, or fine dine and we stay out late. She has more class than some adults. I just think anytime the inference of exclusion is presented it can be hurtful. Again this is just my opinion and it is not meant to hurt anyone. I am sorry if it has offended you, that is certainly not my intention.

[MegaDisney]

Maybe this was brought up in earlier pages, I haven't had the patience to read through the entire thread.

The change to PI has nothing to do with making it "family friendly"

With the new PI-Disney can lease space. They can take a portion of the receipts. They avoid all the costs involved with employees. They will be matching the model of the rest of Downtown Disney. Which has nearly zero risk for Disney. It has to do with money. According to some sources Downtown Disney is second only to the Magic Kingdom in terms of profit for WDW.

[Seasonscraps]

Just to summarize Mega Disney - the family friendly conversation erupted because there are several people that like to go to the night clubs and enjoy an adult evening without little ones about and it was pointed out that Disney is mostly for kids and that places on property should be available to them, etc.

And I am pretty sure we all know the basis for any decision Disney makes is purley economic.

[Vicki Mouse]

AND SCENE......!

[Polynesian Dweller]

And I am pretty sure we all know the basis for any decision Disney makes is purley economic.

Of course it is, they are a business after all. Nothing wrong with that.

But, for it to work economically, they have to consider what their customers want, what they are willing to pay for and for how much, what it will cost to produce the product (in this case shopping and entertainment), and what the consequences are (i.e. how many people will be upset by the change; what amount if any will be lost), and so on.

In every change, you cannot please everybody. Some will be happy with the changes, and some will be unhappy to very unhappy (see Adventurers Club). The economic decision is will the gains of a new product outweigh the loss. That's business and in business its always an economic decision.

[Polynesian Dweller]

Wanted to make this a separate post because it is a different point here. It has been interesting to read all theses posts. So far, we really only have half of the information. The details on what will go into PI really aren't known. Until that point, its really not possible to evaluate how this will turn out.

WDW has been in constant change since it was first opened (I've been around long enough to see it). And everytime something is changed there is always something that people will miss. But the world changes and we continue to love it and have fond memories of things gone by. And yet, WDW as a whole is always great regardless of what's lost, because there's something new to try so it doesn't get old and stale.

My philosophy after 37 years of this, let it happen and it will be exiting and interesting to see what new things are created and something new to try (Toy Story Mania , Soarn', Mickey's Phliharmagic , Test Track etc. etc. all meant a change to something else). And, I'll always have my memories of what was, and those can't be taken away (even if the change doesn't always work out).

[lockedoutlogic]

i still don't think that anyone's intention was to say that those who did not have children or wanted adult entertainment were not welcome....

that has been blown up like a powder keg and taken way out of proportion.....


but i agree with Mega's main points:

the elimination of disney run facilities in favor of third party leased sites makes great sense for them right now....

their workforce is overextended....it has been for quite awhile....and they do need relief where they can get it.

I think the third party leased system has been closely studied....most notably on the west side and with the two rainforest cafes.....and they are satisfied with the results....

those locations don't feel "un-disney"....and they provide good experiences without disney bearing all the headaches and operational expenses.....

as i said earlier....if planet hollywood is still open.....you're doing something right.

it was a natural progression to convert PI....because it had several things working against it

as commented in some business takes on this move: it has always been a man made barrier that has restricted the flow of people across downtown....even after they opened the gates.....
and the down nights far outweigh the crowded nights.....

i guarantee that if they continue to put unique restaurants...even third party leasee sites in there......there won't be downnights to contend with.....

never seems to be too many empty tables anywhere at WDW.....don't think that will change....

it is a wise move from an economic and operational standpoint......even if you don't agree with it.....it can't be ignored

[MegaDisney]

Exactly!

Intercot is not the only board in an uproar about PI and its "Family Friendliness", but Disney never said that the makeover was even remotely related to that.

[SurferStitch]

Just wanted to share....

We got a postcard in the mail today from Disney because we are PI AP holders. They are offering a prorated rebate on our AP's, or we can opt to take some type of offer from them (we have to call to find out what it is.)

They also state that on 9/28, all clubs will have their "Last Call" for the very last time ever. Sure sounds like none of the clubs will be back.

Also, several of the long-time CM's at the AC were told several days in advance of the announcement that they should go apply at the upcoming AI attraction in DHS right away. So, it also doesn't sound like WDW is in any planning stages of moving the AC anywhere else on property. We read this info from someone who knows a couple CM's at the AC and was told about this offer to go to AI.

[WEDTOPIA]

1)


NOTE: This change just reinforces the pain that Disney has learned. Just because you build it, they won't necessarily come. They tried to copy City Walk and failed - just as badly as when they tried to copy Universal Studios with Disney-MGM Studios, or trying to copy Busch Gardens with Animal Kingdom.

I can't figure out how Disney copied City Walk ,when Pleasure Island opened in 1989 , Westside opened in 1997, and City Walk didn't open until 1999.

I won't deny that Disney raced to trump Universal on opening a movie - themed park in Orlando , but the 2 parks are apples and oranges.

As far as the comparison between Busch and AK .... it really isn't fair. I lived near Tampa for almost 34 years and spent plenty of time at Busch. No matter how hard you try , while in Busch Gardens , you never feel like you're in Africa. Disney has quantum leaped them in theming and detail. And there is no way Disney is going to off-shelf AK with rides like Busch , Din-o-rama excluded.( And by the way ,I'm of the opinion that Busch is the best run theme park company outside of Disney )

[lockedoutlogic]

Just wanted to share....

We got a postcard in the mail today from Disney because we are PI AP holders. They are offering a prorated rebate on our AP's, or we can opt to take some type of offer from them (we have to call to find out what it is.)

They also state that on 9/28, all clubs will have their "Last Call" for the very last time ever. Sure sounds like none of the clubs will be back.

Also, several of the long-time CM's at the AC were told several days in advance of the announcement that they should go apply at the upcoming AI attraction in DHS right away. So, it also doesn't sound like WDW is in any planning stages of moving the AC anywhere else on property. We read this info from someone who knows a couple CM's at the AC and was told about this offer to go to AI.

i know there was alot of speculation......

but it seemed pretty "Un" ambiguous to me.....

the clubs are gone.....not rehabbing....


but to those who mourn the comedy and adventurer's club.....don't get too stressed....

if the place and time was right to reinvent them somewhere else.....they would not hesitate to build new ones....

[WEDTOPIA]

Back to the subject at hand.
Basically , Disney is going to get heat no matter what they do anymore. Every single change since Mr. Toad has been met with cries and uproar. This needs updating , this doesn't need updating, that has to go , that's gotta stay ! It's the nature of people to do that.

Pleasure Island had a good run. If it hadn't been turning a big profit for the past , almost , 20 years , Disney would have pulled the plug a long time ago. But, things have changed over there the last few years , and not for the better. So now they are attempting to refresh and renew their investment.

Does anyone think that they would add more shopping , or restaurants , if there was no demand ? If the merchandise doesn't sell you close the doors. If the people want it , get it for them. Disney is only doing what we have (apparently) been telling them to do for years - appeal to the masses.

I'm all for the T-Rex's and Rainforest Cafes of the world , because they are on par with Disney in terms of theming , appeal ,and quality.

And what's wrong with a balloon view of WDW ?
Yes ,there are ballon rides in central Florida , but not on Disney property. And I'll bet they've had more than one guest suggest that this might be a cool attraction at WDW. Does any one truly believe that the Disney Company doesn't do market research ? Please ! Yes ,all egos ( read: Mikey Eisner types ) do need nourishment , but they soon starve if there is no cash to sustain them. Disney has a gargantuan reputation to uphold , which is the major reason that the Eisner reign of terror is over. He was tearing that legacy apart.

They want to make big profits ? Of course they do .What major ( or minor for that matter ) company doesn't do all they can to maximize their return on investment ? If Disney doesn't make profits ,what do you think will happen to our wonderful resort ? PROFITS= MORE MAGIC !

I'm also pretty sure that they won't close half a dozen clubs , solely for the purpose of installing one t-shirt shop. So let's wait until all plans are finalized before we skewer them once more.

One other thing that I'm also pretty certain of is this - Disney wants to maintain a kid safe , family friendly environment. Pleasure Island has become a threat to that ideal. If you don't know what Walt Disney World is all about by now , it's likely you never will. It's what seperates it from every other theme park and theme resort on this planet.
As has been suggested in this thread ,WDW has more than enough watering holes on property. And they are not a threat to the youngsters , because they are well regulated. If you need to get a little crazy , in an adult kind of way , take Ian's suggestion and go to Las Vegas , or Rio , or Mardi Gras . There is absolutely nothing wrong with that. But , Disney has never been , nor will it ever be a kid / family excluded kind of place. I accept that ,as an adult , and move on.

[Donald_Quackers]

After reading some of the posts, I am starting to see the other side of the coin.

While I wish I was able to go to the Comedy Warehouse or the AC more, I'm sure what will replace them will be just as good.

However, I do think there should be a more adult type of entertainment (while not really going too overboard). To say Disney is excluding kids/families, they already do that to an extent on DCL, though that type of comparison may be an apples to oranges type of thing.

It would be interesting to see what they come up with. I just wish they would keep the CW at least. Comedy is all-fun, and late at night, they can go a little more adult, just like they usually do.

Hey, I'm willing to give it a shot!

[Tigger&Stitch]

One other thing that I'm also pretty certain of is this - Disney wants to maintain a kid safe , family friendly environment. Pleasure Island has become a threat to that ideal. If you don't know what Walt Disney World is all about by now , it's likely you never will. It's what seperates it from every other theme park and theme resort on this planet.
As has been suggested in this thread ,WDW has more than enough watering holes on property. And they are not a threat to the youngsters , because they are well regulated. If you need to get a little crazy , in an adult kind of way , take Ian's suggestion and go to Las Vegas , or Rio , or Mardi Gras . There is absolutely nothing wrong with that. But , Disney has never been , nor will it ever be a kid / family excluded kind of place. I accept that ,as an adult , and move on.

Yeeeessh. Having a night out on the town does NOT equate to Vegas, Rio or Mardi Gras. I don't want to go to any of those places, yet I still enjoy a night out without kids around. I'm not even a big drinker! Don't gamble. I'll say it again: would like to keep the comedy and dance clubs without kids around.

And this bears repeating again, since so many of you are keen to ignore it: Disney runs a Disney Cruise Line. Which has adult-only clubs, beach and an entire deck. So, if the thought is so foreign to Disney, why are there adult-only areas on a Disney-themed cruise? Clearly they value the entire family. Many of us commenting on this thread are just asking for the same at the World.

We are definitely now losing that place, and it is unfortunate and upsetting. It changes the vacation experience at WDW a bit, and definitely affects what type of ticket we will buy in the future.

We looked forward to the clubs in PI because they were convenient, and if both of us wanted to have a drink, we could. Back home, we'd have to plan for a designated driver, and make sure we wouldn't stay out too late as to be not too tired to drive home.

Life gets in the way most weekends, and for many adults, easy access to really good comedy and dance clubs is part of vacation. It isn't bad, it isn't dirty, it isn't evil.

[PeterPan]

I have this to say:

First of all, we all must remember that for a VERY long time, Pleasure Island was a HUGE hit. Could not get on to the parking lot. Disney made ENORMOUS amounts of money out of that venture. PI is not something that just sprung up and then fizzled. This denoument took a LONG TIME.

Second of all - I hated it from the beginning. The first time I heard it announced, I had a fit. What were they THINKING? Isn't the whole Disney philosophy (coming down from Walt, The Man, himself) about FAMILIES having fun together? What is all this about adding ADULT themed clubs, etc.? You mean there is a whole AREA at WDW - I'm talking acres of themed entertainment - that is virtually off-limits to kids?

I still think (even tho it made countless millions) it is the stupidest idea that came out of the Eisner Era. I was a personal witness to some of the most abhorrent, abominable, immoral, illegal behavior imaginable at PI. These observations were made over many years. It was disgusting behavior - for any city in America, much less our beloved WDW.

GOOD RIDDANCE.

[MegaDisney]

AND SCENE......!

Amen!

[SurferStitch]

As has been suggested in this thread ,WDW has more than enough watering holes on property. And they are not a threat to the youngsters , because they are well regulated. If you need to get a little crazy , in an adult kind of way , take Ian's suggestion and go to Las Vegas , or Rio , or Mardi Gras . There is absolutely nothing wrong with that. But , Disney has never been , nor will it ever be a kid / family excluded kind of place. I accept that ,as an adult , and move on.

I'm pretty sure that those of us who appreciate and will sorely miss AC are those who aren't in the search of "watering holes". We love AC because it was a themed evening of entertainment. I usually only ever had 1 or 2 drinks during an entire night there, so I wasn't there to get "watered" (sometimes I just sipped soda all night). Apparently there are many who don't seem to grasp that concept.

Also, I have no interest in Vegas, Rio or Mardi Gras. A little too adult for me (well, except for Vegas, but still not interested). AC had fun, intelligent, engaging entertainment, and made for a fun and enjoyable evening out without a million kids under foot.

So, as an adult, I will miss having an entertaining place to enjoy an evening. As an adult, I need more than a bar....sorry....watering hole... to have a good time. Never was one for sidling up to the bar or hanging around a lounge. One drink, and I'm bored.

[Marker]

I'm also pretty sure that they won't close half a dozen clubs , solely for the purpose of installing one t-shirt shop. So let's wait until all plans are finalized before we skewer them once more.

Now come on, your post sounded as though you were actually putting thought towards this and attempting to apply logic to it...... you know that's not how it's done around here.

Thanks for your post, I like the way you think. I too am willing to wait to see what they actually do, and not just assume the worst.

[KAT1811]

For the record I have been in AC when children have been present. Under 18 are also allowed in the Comedy Warehouse accompanied by an adult.

[mjstaceyuofm]

However, I do think there should be a more adult type of entertainment (while not really going too overboard). To say Disney is excluding kids/families, they already do that to an extent on DCL, though that type of comparison may be an apples to oranges type of thing.

Apples to oranges is a good statement. It's easy to have adult offerings on the DCL because the ship and programs are contained and set up to allow supervision of children for certain programs. That would be awfully hard to do at WDW. DCL and WDW are apples and oranges in my book. Cruising in general is different from a land-based vacation.

My thought is that if you go to WDW, you're going because you like the offerings and a chance to spend family time or if you are adults w/o kids to "rekindle" that magic from your childhood, etc. I really do think there are plenty of adult oriented activities all throughout the property - golfing, race car driving, fantasy sport camps, fishing, nature trails, etc. not to mention the numerous bars / restaurants and upscale things you can do as adults. WDW doesn't need "nightclubs" in my book.

PI was great while it lasted, but I just don't see the issue with it closing given the bad rap PI had received as of late...