Disney World Reports Flat Attendance

[DizneyRox]

Cruuuuusssiiiiiiinnn...

[Jll3Sonex]

Cruuuuusssiiiiiiinnn...

And not on a Disney ship, either...

For less than double the price of a 5-day ticket per person, you get room, virtually unlimited food, 4 to 5 star dining experiences, entertainment, AND motion sickness! What a deal!

Pick the right ship, and you've even got an on-board waterpark.

When you consider how much you're going to spend to stay on property, how much you're going to spend to eat, and how much the tickets cost... all of a sudden a cruise looks very attractive. Yeah, you won't have Space Mountain or Mission:Space - but you could have helmet-diving or dolphin cuddling in Cozumel instead.

The problem is that there's a lot of competition for the tourist dollar. For Disney to keep drawing, the experience has to be exceptional, and at best now it's just kind of okay. Without the high levels of maintenance and continued investment, they're going to slide further. In another 10 years, they might be down to Six-Flags status, which would be a darn shame.

The cost to get them back to 5-star position, unfortunately, will likely be a lot more than it would have cost to keep WDW 5-star in the first place.

[Mousemates]

Until the fanatics start speaking with their wallets, it's hypocritical and ludicrous to expect anything to change. Why would Disney pander to the people who post on this board? For the last 20 years they have proven that they will keep spending thousands of dollars at Disney World regardless of the resort's direction.

Is there a limit to that? I think so, but I haven't seen it yet, have you? How many of the people complaining here have actually sold their DVC? Or canceled their annual passes? Some, perhaps.

But not many.

Well, we are actually cutting WAY back on theme park expenditures and trip length. This year we are cruising and will only be spending two night at WDW (with only a single park day) and last year our longest stay was four nights for our anniversary. For us WDW is becoming more of a place to stay a few nights while in the course of our vacation travels than a "never leave the property" vacation destination.

Yes, even if things don't improve a whole lot, we will likely continue to go for a couple days each year. My wife and I have a lot of memories (from both our childhoods and our kid's childhoods at WDW) that we enjoy having "come to mind" while we walk through the parks. However, going from eight nights a year to two nights a year represents a seventy-five cut in the revenue WDW resorts, restaurants and themeparks receive from us...so I would guess my pocketbook has spoken as well.

[Ian]

When you consider how much you're going to spend to stay on property, how much you're going to spend to eat, and how much the tickets cost... all of a sudden a cruise looks very attractive.

You know it's funny you say that, because it was exactly that (a cruise) that started me thinking that maybe Disney World was getting a bit overpriced in comparison to the experience.

I really felt like our NCL cruise gave us a lot more bang for our buck. As soon as our twins are old enough, we'll definitely be cruising again.

[Jll3Sonex]

You know it's funny you say that, because it was exactly that (a cruise) that started me thinking that maybe Disney World was getting a bit overpriced in comparison to the experience.

I really felt like our NCL cruise gave us a lot more bang for our buck. As soon as our twins are old enough, we'll definitely be cruising again.

We went on a Carnival cruise this fall. The attention to detail shown by the maintenance crew was impressive, and the public areas and bathrooms were spotless. No worn paint or varnish allowed, bulbs were promptly replaced, nothing was allowed to stay less than shiny or clean.

There was a water park and two water slides, movies, live entertainment - and Carnival isn't one of the top-rated lines, either.

Seems to me (through my jaded memories) that sort of attention to detail used to be common at the parks, but isn't any longer. They've gone from "going for the best" to "Good enough for now - someone's just going to come along and mess it up anyway."

And I'll admit, when you've got a passenger-crew ratio of about 3 to 1 in a relatively small space, it's a lot easier to focus on maintaining the environment for the customer. (Makes me wonder if there's an optimal CM/sq ft level for operations and maintenance to keep it sparkling and spotless...)

Only drawback to the cruise is that I can't give blood for a year - turned out Roatan, Honduras is potentially malarial, and the Red Cross has put me on hold for a bit. For all the complaints about WDW, you don't have to worry about malaria at Ft. Wilderness.

I'll admit, I'd LIKE to take a Disney cruise to compare the two. The price, though, is a bit steep for our wallets.

[Ian]

I'll admit, I'd LIKE to take a Disney cruise to compare the two. The price, though, is a bit steep for our wallets.

Again ... same reaction I have. The same cruise we took on NCL (7 day Mexican Riv) would have cost us triple on DCL.

Now look ... I'm sure DCL is good, but come on! Triple the cost good??? No way. I'd like to, but I honestly doubt I'll ever cruise DCL. The cost is just wya too out of whack with other good cruiselines.

Kinda funny about the malaria in WDW, although remember ... there are gators!

[DizneyRox]

As i've said before, it's really hard to beat the value of a cruise. Can't wait for our July trip...

Been on RCCL and Disney and both were great, but the Disney one was only a good value when you consider I got the CM rate, which was about $700-$800 I think pp for a 7 night cruise. The real prices are so out of touch with the rest of the industry, but again, Disney thinks they are worth it, and they add that surcharge (and people DO pay it).

RCCL is getting Shrek and ours will be one of the ships with them on board. Not sure what I think about that just yet, but it's something. I'll hold judgment till i get back. We'll see what the little one says.

It's been a few years, but as the PP said, it's astonishing the maintenance that happens on the boat. RCCL (probably most others too) paint at each port, the stairways and other public areas are always clean, metal was shiny, glass was clear, etc. Definitely head and shoulders above what Disney is currently doing in the parks.

One thing that's always been a pain though, and nobody gets it right, is debarkation. I thought Disney would have done it right, but they were no better. Only thing missing is the door hitting you in the back end on the way down the gantry. It probably seems worse though because of all the pampering for the week prior.

I'll admit though, value diminishes quickly if you're a drinker. Glad I never picked up that habit...

[Granny Jill A]

I wonder what percentage of their visitors are repeaters, and how many repeat visits are from folks like me who have visited multiple times over the past decade.

Are they marketing to just those first-timers who can't compare the good ol' days to now?

It appears that the cutbacks at WDW are following the pattern set by Disneyland some years ago. Although DL is now having to play catch-up with maintenance issues and bad marketing decisions.

[Melanie]

It appears that the cutbacks at WDW are following the pattern set by Disneyland some years ago. Although DL is now having to play catch-up with maintenance issues and bad marketing decisions.

Are you speaking of California Adventure? Because I couldn't disagree more as far as Disneyland Park and the resort as a whole goes. They've got it together out there, much more so than WDW.

[Granny Jill A]

Are you speaking of California Adventure? Because I couldn't disagree more as far as Disneyland Park and the resort as a whole goes. They've got it together out there, much more so than WDW.

Yes, I'm thinking of CA and DL - several years ago they were in a world of hurt with deferred maintenance, changes in management, etc. They appear to be working hard to fix those problems and return the "original" to its' former glory

I just hope WDW doesn't go down that path and have to struggle with similar issues.

[Melanie]

Yes, I'm thinking of CA and DL - several years ago they were in a world of hurt with deferred maintenance, changes in management, etc. They appear to be working hard to fix those problems and return the "original" to its' former glory

I just hope WDW doesn't go down that path and have to struggle with similar issues.

Yes, Disneyland did go through such things, and I personally think WDW is somewhat to that point now, but Disneyland Park is in wonderful shape and has been for years. Seems that 50th anniversary thing had something to do with that. With the CA redo and the Disneyland Hotel refurb (which was really needed, but not so much for lack of maintenance), they will be set. Too bad they can't all take tips from Tokyo Disney though - now that's a well taken care of resort!

[wire0monkey]

I, for one, am happy to see WDW getting its rear end kicked.

It actually strikes me completely opposite. WDW attendance rates held steady in the face of a huge economic recession, terrible unemployment numbers, and stiff competition from the Harry Potter land at US. Under the circumstances, they're doing well.

They didn't grow, but they didn't take a loss.

They do need to look to future growth, but if I were an exec, I wouldn't be displeased with those numbers.

[Ian]

It actually strikes me completely opposite. WDW attendance rates held steady in the face of a huge economic recession, terrible unemployment numbers, and stiff competition from the Harry Potter land at US. Under the circumstances, they're doing well.

You have to read a little deeper ... in the face of all those same issues, Universal managed a 30%+ increase in attendance.

Now the question is, is Universals increased share of the market sustainable or will they slide back after the novelty of WWoHP wears off.

[wire0monkey]

You have to read a little deeper ... in the face of all those same issues, Universal managed a 30%+ increase in attendance.


I know that. The Universal parks were underattended compared to WDW, though, an they added Harry Potter. That 30% growth rate in attendance is over some pretty poor starting numbers.

US and IOA are great parks. Universal has the best ride-tech in the industry in my opinion. "The Simpsons" is jaw-droppingly great. It's the best ride in Orlando. It far surpasses anything Disney has done from a technical perspective. I haven't ridden the new Harry Potter ride yet, so we'll have to see. There is good theming and other benefits there. My kids were extremely engaged by Sueuss Landing than anything at MK. What they didn't have was a major brand to draw people in. Harry Potter is the headliner that they needed.

That said, it is a problem for Disney because that 30% growth is coming to a large extent from people who are adding US and IOA to their WDW trip. They're taking days away from people being in the Disney parks. That doesn't effect ticket sales in any huge numbers, because the price of a WDW gets incrementally cheaper the more days you add. It does have to hit gross revenues, though. Disney wants to sell more lunches and ice cream bars and souveniers, as much as they want to sell tickets.