Are these the "Dark Days" of DisneyWorld?

[azcavalier]

Maybe it's just me, but there seems to be a lot of negativity about the way things at WDW have been headed. It's even got me to be a bit snippy on here! SO, first off, I apologize to anyone whom i've been grumpy with, especially the moderators and QuadStriker.

But I wonder if it's really gotten worse, or if we tend to remember more fondly than it really was? My Grandma has been dead for 40 years, and all the time I was growing up my Mom complained that every year (according to my Dad) that Grandma's cooking was better and better. You could never top her biscuits, no matter what you did, even with the same recipe.

That said, here are some of the main topics that have gotten me thinking about it:

1. Restaurant quality has gone down - DDP to blame? Budget cuts?

2. Expansion changes (or not)- no Beastly Kingdom, Various refurbs whittled away to almost nothing (Space Mountain), new construction not up to par (Dumbo ride getting damaged, Yeti issues), buildings sitting empty, such as Wonders of Life Pavilion, the Imagination building being reduced to the Figment ride and the awful Michael Jackson movie.

3. Not fixing "the show" - various elements on multiple rides not functioning, and not getting fixed, such as COP, Splash Mountain, EE, the Great Movie Ride, Fantasmic, etc, etc.

4. Poor management decisions - from the Avatarland project announcement, to the Avatarland project suspension, to taking Splash Mountain off of nighttime EMH and adding the Country Bears and Tiki Room.

5. If it's broke, don't fix it. If it works, then let's change it! - New Fast Pass system, interactive queues instead of fixing the rides themselves.

6. Nickle & diming, price increases - charging for after hour parties, the dessert party, the possibility of a $200 add-on for an "interactive Magic Kingdom Game Experience" that is currently on the exit surveys, increase in DDP prices with less offerings, increase in overall park tickets.

7. The basic idea that management at TDO doesn't really care what the consumer wants, that they just want to justify their own decisions, whether they're wanted or not (i.e. the new costumes that CMs at the American Experience have to wear).

I'm not trying to be negative. I believe that all of us *love* WDW or we wouldn't be on here posting. And things have to change. AND no matter what decision that management makes, they can't please everyone.

So, is it really that bad now? Or are we just remembering the good ol' days, and maybe they weren't as good as we think they were?

Lastly, will changes be coming, and we'll all be happy 5-10 years from now with everything that Disney has done to our Vacation Kingdom?

[ChipNDale79]

Maybe it's just me, but there seems to be a lot of negativity about the way things at WDW have been headed. It's even got me to be a bit snippy on here! SO, first off, I apologize to anyone whom i've been grumpy with, especially the moderators and QuadStriker.

But I wonder if it's really gotten worse, or if we tend to remember more fondly than it really was? My Grandma has been dead for 40 years, and all the time I was growing up my Mom complained that every year (according to my Dad) that Grandma's cooking was better and better. You could never top her biscuits, no matter what you did, even with the same recipe.

That said, here are some of the main topics that have gotten me thinking about it:

1. Restaurant quality has gone down - DDP to blame? Budget cuts?

2. Expansion changes (or not)- no Beastly Kingdom, Various refurbs whittled away to almost nothing (Space Mountain), new construction not up to par (Dumbo ride getting damaged, Yeti issues), buildings sitting empty, such as Wonders of Life Pavilion, the Imagination building being reduced to the Figment ride and the awful Michael Jackson movie.

3. Not fixing "the show" - various elements on multiple rides not functioning, and not getting fixed, such as COP, Splash Mountain, EE, the Great Movie Ride, Fantasmic, etc, etc.

4. Poor management decisions - from the Avatarland project announcement, to the Avatarland project suspension, to taking Splash Mountain off of nighttime EMH and adding the Country Bears and Tiki Room.

5. If it's broke, don't fix it. If it works, then let's change it! - New Fast Pass system, interactive queues instead of fixing the rides themselves.

6. Nickle & diming, price increases - charging for after hour parties, the dessert party, the possibility of a $200 add-on for an "interactive Magic Kingdom Game Experience" that is currently on the exit surveys, increase in DDP prices with less offerings, increase in overall park tickets.

7. The basic idea that management at TDO doesn't really care what the consumer wants, that they just want to justify their own decisions, whether they're wanted or not (i.e. the new costumes that CMs at the American Experience have to wear).

I'm not trying to be negative. I believe that all of us *love* WDW or we wouldn't be on here posting. And things have to change. AND no matter what decision that management makes, they can't please everyone.

So, is it really that bad now? Or are we just remembering the good ol' days, and maybe they weren't as good as we think they were?

Lastly, will changes be coming, and we'll all be happy 5-10 years from now with everything that Disney has done to our Vacation Kingdom?

Personally I feel like Disney has always been the standard for other theme parks, but lately with cost cutting and neglect, they are going to be just like any other theme park. I hope that things change for the better, and I think there's a great shot of that happening. I think if a redo of DHS or a new area is added like Carsland, then i think this argument becomes null and void. Until then, I'm tired of paying more every year while cuts are being made left and right.

You mention Space Mountain, I'm still amazed at how WDW really screwed this up. SM is a great ride, but it was time for some major refurb work to make it more exciting for the current generation of fans, but no, Disney decided to keep the 1970s style roller coaster layout. This was such a huge swing and a miss on Disney's part.

I'm also extremely upset with cutting of Splash Mountain from Magic Hours, staying on property is a lot more expensive than staying off, Magic Hours is a major perk and is our main reason for staying onsite. If more and more cuts are made to attractions during MHs, then I wonder how many people will book offsite hotels?

It's so saddening to see such a great company be completely ran by bean counters that lack imagination. I hope a regime change is made in the next few years that brings innovation and imagination (how come figment is signing in my head when i type this?) back to the Disney Company.

[Ms. Mode]

I think some of the "ill will" comes from the computer age. I read several WDW blog sites and complaining is running rampant, it drives me crazy! Yes, the price has gone up...EVERYTHING has gone up...look at the price of gasoline. If Disney changes a ride people complain, if they take one away for something newer people complain, if they change nothing people complain; they just can't win.

I love Disney World, my family has had wonderful vacations there and plan to have more in the future. If the price goes up, we just won't be able to go as often...but we still plan to go. We don't need free dining, we don't ask for a break on the price of a room before we go....we just pay the fee and go. Because we are Disney People....we love it there!

[Mendelson]

One thing to consider: the natural phenomenon of familiarity breeding contempt. And we on these boards are all very, very familiar.

[doodleboy]

One thing to consider: the natural phenomenon of familiarity breeding contempt. And we on these boards are all very, very familiar.

I do agree with your point to some extent, but I have also been feeling like things are changing for the worse in the last 5 years or so. I like change and don't expect old attractions to be around forever, although I do believe some are more classic than others and can stand the test of time. But my sentiment mostly aligns itself with the original poster. I feel like things are being taken away and not replaced, or replaced on the cheap. What made WDW attractions so great was the attention to detail, craftsmanship, and imagination to mention a few of the things that draw us all there. I feel like the parks and resorts are becoming the Wal-mart of theme parks. I'd like to say that people will show their dislike for what's happening by not visiting, but our kids have a way of persuading where our $$ go. I know as mine get older I will not visit as often, and I am a DVC member. I also used to love to visit before kids for, but I think that urge has left me as of late due to the direction I see the corporation heading.

[ChipNDale79]

I do agree with your point to some extent, but I have also been feeling like things are changing for the worse in the last 5 years or so. I like change and don't expect old attractions to be around forever, although I do believe some are more classic than others and can stand the test of time. But my sentiment mostly aligns itself with the original poster. I feel like things are being taken away and not replaced, or replaced on the cheap. What made WDW attractions so great was the attention to detail, craftsmanship, and imagination to mention a few of the things that draw us all there. I feel like the parks and resorts are becoming the Wal-mart of theme parks. I'd like to say that people will show their dislike for what's happening by not visiting, but our kids have a way of persuading where our $$ go. I know as mine get older I will not visit as often, and I am a DVC member. I also used to love to visit before kids for, but I think that urge has left me as of late due to the direction I see the corporation heading.

Post like this one are win i beg for a "like" button on Intercot ha.

[ChipNDale79]

we just pay the fee and go. Because we are Disney People....we love it there!

No offense to you, but this is exactly why Disney is able to get away with a lot of the things they are doing, people just pay the fee and go.

Until Disney sees a real decline in hotel bookings and ticket purchases, then no change will be made.

I too understand that the cost of everything has increased, but keep in mind that WDW is a vacation destination, I don't know about you, but in my family if the budget gets really tight, then the first thing that is cut is discretionary spending. A vacation would definitely fall into that category for most people. In a "bad economy", WDW's prices have not decreased, but increased nearly 20% since 2008.

At some point a WDW vacation does lose its "value". When that line is crossed, there will be more and more people booking vacations at other places, in my opinion Disney is very close to that line.

[CMCTxMom]

No offense to you, but this is exactly why Disney is able to get away with a lot of the things they are doing, people just pay the fee and go.

Until Disney sees a real decline in hotel bookings and ticket purchases, then no change will be made.

I think that you're right, and I think that is what is most disappointing. Disney IS the standard in theme parks. "We" as the fans expect them to keep up their repuation and the Magic that we have come to love them for. I haven't been to WDW in almost 6 years - we're going in January - I hope I'm not let down. I noticed a lot of little things the last visits to Disneyland in '09 and '10, but I attributed that to the setup of that park being so much different (i.e. cast members walking in the parking lot for their busses, etc. Things you'd never seen in FL.).

[MrPeetrie]

No offense to you, but this is exactly why Disney is able to get away with a lot of the things they are doing, people just pay the fee and go.

Until Disney sees a real decline in hotel bookings and ticket purchases, then no change will be made....

I agree wholeheartedly with this sentiment. It saddens me deeply, but my love for WDW has dwindled so much lately. For many years, my sleep routine was to imagine an impending Disney trip with as much detail as possible from wake up to breakfast to rides. Normally, I’d make it to the second day then fall asleep. I haven’t thought about a trip in several years.

My DS11 and I took advantage of low air fare and went last October. We had the worst experience. I understand they took a financial beating and need to replenish, but we really felt financially abused by the entire setup. My son kept asking, “How much longer before we can go home?”

But the company in general seems to be getting away from customer service orientation to bottom-line oriented. Read “Keys to the Kingdom: Seven Secrets to Disney’s Success” and compare that model to today’s model. Big difference. Big let down. Not sure when/if I go back.

[retiredfigment]

Well said, Ms. Mode. DW is a magical place, but it still is part of today's economy. EVERYTHING is going up in price, everyone seems less friendly, everyone has to make cost cuts. Still love Disney! Went on the Backstage Tour and the guide said something to the effect that Disney IS a business. Didn't like hearing that, yet how true. IF the crowds weren't at DW, if tDW didn't offer packages to get more people to come, if DW did not make cost cuts, there may not be a DW to go to.

[Aurora]

There are four things that really bother me:

1. Charging for things that used to come with the price of admission, or adding a minimum of "amenities" in order to charge; e.g. dessert parties and VIP areas for fireworks viewing. This seems to be a trend with no sign of stopping.

2. The reduction in overall quality of CMs. I don't go looking for rude and indifferent CMs, but I encounter more and more on every trip. (Yes, I know this is partly a matter of the lack of qualified applicants, but only partly.)

3. The seeming neglect of good show. Guests DO notice when something doesn't work properly, and it's disappointing.

4. The monorail shut-downs within an hour of park closing.

Here are things that give me a bit of hope:

1. The imaginative "Magic, Memories and You" was a big surprise to me in terms of how good it was. It was one of those "how do they do that?" shows.

2. The Fantasyland expansion. Although I haven't been since some of the land has opened, I saw construction on our last trip that made me excited about it.

3. Additions to classic rides like Pirates of the Caribbean and the Haunted Mansion that help to keep them fresh.

Overall, I think the speed of Internet information makes it easy for people to complain before things are fixed; it also puts companies' feet to the flame to make sure they're fixed fast. I also think that increased crowds overall make it harder to appreciate the magic.

[Ms. Mode]

Well, don't you think if WDW stops the free dining and room discounts they can stop raising the prices?

I say this because as I read what people write here on Intercot if they don't get the free DDP they are going to cancel their trip! I'm just saying that if they offer me a discount SURE I'm going to take it, but my whole vacation doesn't rest on free anything.

Just for the record, we are Disney Poor, and yes, we have limited our spending in other areas for a trip to WDW.

[ChipNDale79]

Well, don't you think if WDW stops the free dining and room discounts they can stop raising the prices?

I say this because as I read what people write here on Intercot if they don't get the free DDP they are going to cancel their trip! I'm just saying that if they offer me a discount SURE I'm going to take it, but my whole vacation doesn't rest on free anything.

Just for the record, we are Disney Poor, and yes, we have limited our spending in other areas for a trip to WDW.

Yes free dinning is still there, but the other promotions aren't what they were a couple of years ago, when the bottom fell out of the economy.

Iger is on record as saying they are going to rollback on discounts and they are prepared to take a hit for it.

[Mickey'sIrishPAl]

I think some of the "ill will" comes from the computer age. I read several WDW blog sites and complaining is running rampant, it drives me crazy! Yes, the price has gone up...EVERYTHING has gone up...look at the price of gasoline. If Disney changes a ride people complain, if they take one away for something newer people complain, if they change nothing people complain; they just can't win.

I love Disney World, my family has had wonderful vacations there and plan to have more in the future. If the price goes up, we just won't be able to go as often...but we still plan to go. We don't need free dining, we don't ask for a break on the price of a room before we go....we just pay the fee and go. Because we are Disney People....we love it there!

Very well said and I agree 100%.

[DVC2004]

Things are definitely different. I know that our 2001 trip we raved about the service. we stayed at the Poly and we felt like royalty. It's just not the same now. In fact, we just recently stayed onsite at Universal and I know their hotels are Loews, but boy did they go out of their way to give good service. Really and truly. I haven't felt that way about a Disney hotel stay in a while I'm sad to say. I'll give you an example. We stayed at Aulani recently. Now I know it's not in Disneyworld but itis Disney. We checked in pretty late around 10 pm. The cast member who checked us in was very nice and she got another cast member to get us leis. She then told us go out to the front in the morning and see the cultural representatives because they give out different leis each day. So the next day we were exploring and made it a point to go see the ladies in the front. We asked and they said didn't you get a lei at check in??? You only get one! Sort of snippy. I explained what the other CM had told us and she said sorry that's wrong, everyone only gets one. Well OK fine. We really weren't trying to get more than our share but the two up there made us feel bad for asking. Also, my husband had paid out of pocket for an airport lei greeting for all of us so it wasn't like we needed them. However it was not a very Disney -like experience and quite honestly, poor service in general.

I worked for Disney in recent years and while I was there it was very good. But the economy turned and things changed, and it was not the same. And although I enjoy the parks and always will, I see things with a different point of view now. And yes, it sometimes spoils the magic.

[Gator]

Good grief, Charlie Brown! From what I'm hearing, people will hate Disney soon and stop going, thus bankrupting the empire.

First off, the dining quality has not gone down - all because of the DDP. When I first went, my lunch at the Castle was just OK(still the same), the selection at SciFi was pretty plain (nothing's changed there), and San Angel Inn served bland texmex(still the same). Liberty Tree has improved, the burger joints at MK still have the fixens bar, and I had my best steak ever at LeCellier on our last trip 2011. The food isn't worse, and it isn't better. It's still good, and I still like the DDP.

Second: the parks are better today than they were 10 years ago. MK has a new fantasyland and new dining options. Epcot has Mission:Space, a soon to be updated TestTrack, an up-to-date SSE, kid friendly Seas and Mexico boat ride. DHS has an updated StarTours, which I can't wait to ride. How about Toy Story Mania? Throw in the AI Exp and the LMA, that's plenty of new stuff. And AK has added ExEv and a really fun live show with Nemo. Sound like a pretty good 10 year run for the parks.

Third: the resorts are constantly getting updated. All of the mods have had AT LEAST one refurb in the last 10 years. There are two new, really nice value resorts. If anything, I think the bus service is better now than it was back in 2002.

Fourth: the reason they're offering deals to get to WDW is because the economy is in the tank. Not because people don't like the low quality of Disney. It's simple marketing: keep the prices the same or go up with them, but offer deals to entice people to come until the economy is doing well. When I went in 2002, there was NO deal for my honeymoon trip, but now there's all sorts of deals. People have quoted Iger from back in 2010as saying the deals will be rolled back, but the free dining deal has gone from Hurricane season to August through February. Not exactly rolling back,eh?

Are these the dark days for Disney? I think not. Maybe it is for America and it's economy - again this being the reason for all the discounts - but not for Disney. Is this their finest hour? Of course not. But from what I just listed, WDW is doing a pretty good job and keeping me coming back for more.

[Dsnygirl]

I think some of the "ill will" comes from the computer age. I read several WDW blog sites and complaining is running rampant, it drives me crazy!

I think you are really hitting the nail on the head with this one... there are a LOT of issues out there, but it's true... complaining & negativity just seems viral on the computer.

I used to read comments to local news stories, etc., until I just couldn't handle it anymore... there was RARELY anything positive!! I think people just really love the chance to get things off their chest w/o the accountability of having to say it to someone in person... and although that's not quite as true re: Disney, seeing as very few of us would really ever have the chance to share our thoughts with anyone in a position to really listen and make a change, being able to vent and get our disgruntled feelings off our chest seems to be something that works in these online forums.

Thankfully, we have a place here where it's pretty balanced... people have the chance to vent, but we also have people who are "meh" about the negative stuff and stay sunny & cheerful, and it reminds us of all the good things we may allow our frustrations to overshadow.

I think the OP's thought that over time, we remember things more fondly also plays into it... I know that we've had trips that were good, and trips that were GREAT... but somehow, 6 months out, they ALL become great and it's easier to see the changes we hear about negatively b/c we like how it WAS.

Things have definitely changed, and the almighty dollar definitely seems to be a huge focus, pleasing the investors, etc... and I'm admittedly a bit nervous about some of the decisions being forced on all of us who just love Disney, and want the magic without all the rest.

All that to say... I think this is a cool thread... can't wait to read more comments!

[Utopia74]

Seems like all the ones who complain (about the food quality, etc) are still the ones going at least once a year.
If it's bad, then don't go. There's other places to vacation than Disney World. Vegas has great food and no dining plan, go there.

From a food standpoint, I was there in '05 (pre dining plan), and then again in '08, '09, and '10.
If anything, the food has gotten even better with time. Of course, we stick mainly to the Signature Dining places. I can see where maybe the Counter Service places have gone downhill, but if you're expecting burgers & fries at an amusement park to be gourmet, you're misguided.

[Aurora]

I think you are really hitting the nail on the head with this one... there are a LOT of issues out there, but it's true... complaining & negativity just seems viral on the computer.

I used to read comments to local news stories, etc., until I just couldn't handle it anymore... there was RARELY anything positive!! I think people just really love the chance to get things off their chest w/o the accountability of having to say it to someone in person... and although that's not quite as true re: Disney, seeing as very few of us would really ever have the chance to share our thoughts with anyone in a position to really listen and make a change, being able to vent and get our disgruntled feelings off our chest seems to be something that works in these online forums.

Thankfully, we have a place here where it's pretty balanced... people have the chance to vent, but we also have people who are "meh" about the negative stuff and stay sunny & cheerful, and it reminds us of all the good things we may allow our frustrations to overshadow.

I think the OP's thought that over time, we remember things more fondly also plays into it... I know that we've had trips that were good, and trips that were GREAT... but somehow, 6 months out, they ALL become great and it's easier to see the changes we hear about negatively b/c we like how it WAS.

Things have definitely changed, and the almighty dollar definitely seems to be a huge focus, pleasing the investors, etc... and I'm admittedly a bit nervous about some of the decisions being forced on all of us who just love Disney, and want the magic without all the rest.

All that to say... I think this is a cool thread... can't wait to read more comments!

You may be right about pining for how it USED to be. But that's because in my trips in earlier years, we never ran into grumpy CMs. (And I do mean never, and I'm not remembering wrong.) We didn't have to worry about when the monorail was going to stop running. The effects on the rides were awesome because they worked.

And, the focus wasn't so much on the "theme park experience" as the "Mickey Mouse" experience. There was more of an innocence there that is gone now, replaced with something more cynical. Plus, something that has nothing to do with Disney, people in general were better behaved.

While I do get upset about changes at WDW for the worse, I also believe we are now a nation of complainers, of people who believe that the squeaky wheel gets the grease. I wonder how much all of this plays into how much we enjoyed our trips in the late 1990s and early 2000s vs. how much we enjoy them now.

One last point: On our last two trips we visited Universal. Both times we didn't encounter any CMs who didn't seem happy to be there. The comparison between Universal and Disney was surprising to me; on our trip last June, there were many, many unhappy CMs at Disney. If you closed your eyes and couldn't see their name tags, you wouldn't have guessed correctly where they worked.

[DizneyFreak2002]

You may be right about pining for how it USED to be. But that's because in my trips in earlier years, we never ran into grumpy CMs. (And I do mean never, and I'm not remembering wrong.) We didn't have to worry about when the monorail was going to stop running. The effects on the rides were awesome because they worked.

Doesn't stink pining for the days when they actually cared about show and giving the guests more bang for their buck?? Giving them reasons to spend money and buy quality merchandise?? Pining for the days they at least acted like they cared about the guest and not their next huge bonus check... Yea, shame we pine for quality and not accepting the crud they force down our throats now...

One last point: On our last two trips we visited Universal. Both times we didn't encounter any CMs who didn't seem happy to be there. The comparison between Universal and Disney was surprising to me; on our trip last June, there were many, many unhappy CMs at Disney. If you closed your eyes and couldn't see their name tags, you wouldn't have guessed correctly where they worked.

It is all about morale... Where is the morale higher today?? At a theme park that shutters attractions, runs them at 50% show ready, hassles CMs, and has remained stagnant for years or a theme park that has seen attendance increase 30% one year, 29% another, huge increased in customer spending, huge increases in customer satisfaction, and tons of momentum going for it the next 10 years while your competitor throws press events for new BENCHES???

Yes CM morale is down and it shows... Universal Team Member morale is up and guess what??? It shows!!!!