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  1. #41
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    Listen. Some people like the food and choices available. Some don't. Nobody can win that disagreement. Neither side is "right" because it's a purely subjective argument!

    I've been going to WDW since the 1970's. I've seen a lot of changes over the years. Some I enjoyed, some I didn't. But I don't look at the parks with a microscope. I tend to look at my vacations "OVERALL". And they've all been great.

    You know, I tend to be a big neat freak - to the point that I'm a little OCD about how I keep my house. Friends come over and ALWAYS comment on how "pristine" my house is... but I only see the scuff on the baseboard by the front door... and the fingerprints on the patio door. I focus on the negatives of my house, instead of being grateful for the fact that it IS a great house I should be proud of. I'm working on that.
    The same goes for Disney World -- you can either choose to see those imperfections and feel contempt about peeling paint and shame that something wasn't working while you were there, or you can enjoy the experience as a whole. I choose the latter. I don't think things have gotten to the point where I'm ashamed to recommend Disney to anyone. I hope they never get to that point. But I don't feel like we're anywhere NEAR "dark days" at WDW.
    ~ Carolyn ~ aka "CANADA!"
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  3. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by A Big Kid View Post
    I counter your disagreement. We used to consider dining an attraction to be enjoyed. To us, it is nothing more than something to be endured.

    Menus used to be imaginative and unique. They are nothing more than slight variations on the same food from restaurant to restaurant.

    DDP and character meals (read: overpriced under quality buffets) are the rule of the day.

    Our trips have become fewer, farther between, and shorter.
    Again, I politely agree to disagree, but I don't see what was watered down or similar at any of the table service restaurants at which I ate this past trip. Places like Artist Point, Mama Melrose, Yak and Yeti, La Hacienda, and even buffets like Boma had excellent food, unique choices, and enough selection to make my decisions actually difficult at times. I fail to see what's watered down by these menus. I'd concede breakfast buffets, which have the most overlap, but even that, the two I attended, Crystal Palace and Tusker House were both quality and had some fun unique choices. One drawback to the DDP is not being able to order an appetizer unless you pay out of pocket.


    Quote Originally Posted by Buttercup View Post
    Listen. Some people like the food and choices available. Some don't. Nobody can win that disagreement. Neither side is "right" because it's a purely subjective argument!
    This is certainly true, and why I always choose to "disagree" as opposed to saying "you're wrong".
    Viva Darth Macho!
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  4. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buttercup View Post
    I've been going to WDW since the 1970's. I've seen a lot of changes over the years. Some I enjoyed, some I didn't. But I don't look at the parks with a microscope. I tend to look at my vacations "OVERALL". And they've all been great.

    But I don't feel like we're anywhere NEAR "dark days" at WDW.
    Truly refreshing. That's a great perspective. I've never had a small oversight by staff ruin my entire vacation at WDW. They've all been great.
    My name is Gator. You killed my Sorcerer's Hat. Prepare to die.

    DL 2-17,8-17, 11-17; DL 2016; DL 11-2015; DL-DL-Hotel 2-2015; DL 2014; DL-Paradise Pier 2013; POFQ Dec 2012; CSR - Jan 2011; AKL-Kidani - Jan 2010; A.S.Mov - Dec 2008; CSR - Dec 2006; DL Feb 2006; CBR - Feb 2004; POR - Jun 2002

  5. #44
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    These are neither the dark, or glory days of WDW. An objective analysis will cite both positive and negative developments at WDW.

    The negatives seem more obvious. It appears that decision-making is based on initial costs instead of long-term value. I do not believe that WDW management has complete authority over WDW plans and expenditures. The corporate focus on DL must be considered in its influence on improvements at WDW. It was not long ago that Eisner was considered the problem. However, delayed and incomplete maintenance at WDW, especially with the Yeti, is not acceptable.

    Regarding dining, the DDP has negatively impacted prices and dining options. The claim that there are no good dining options at WDW is inaccurate. We have had many superior ts meals, featuring high quality menu options and service. Jiko and Artist point have been excellent. Several other ts locations have been very good as well. I fully support dumbing down a menu by adding a steak, while deleting a seafood item.

    Our favorite month to return to WDW used to be September. Free dining has led to substantially larger crowds and hassles. WDW needs to improve its crowd control policies. The practice of allowing miscreants to run wild must stop. CM's and managers must be supported when enforcing safety and behavior violations.

    Removing resort discounts while increasing rates is not a formula for success regardless of the state of the economy. Competition requires that new and exciting attractions be added to WDW in order to retain its market share.

    A trip to WDW remains a good value, however its value has decreased. It is necessary to scrutinize management decisions that are flawed while supporting innovative decisions which produce improvements at WDW. Walt set the bar high and Disney fans expect this tradition to continue.

  6. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gator View Post
    And yes, parks are better than 10 years ago. And I listed all the new attractions that make them better. If all those new attractions don't light your fire, I doubt anything truly will.
    This has been a great thread. I have not responded fully yet because I am still trying to figure out exactly what I want to say. But I do want to comment on this.

    I can accept that you believe the parks are better now than they were 10 years ago. I am not going to argue with you. But for you to make that statement unequivocally is unfair. In terms of overall upkeep, maintenance and show quality, the parks have slipped.

    Does that mean we're in the "dark days?" I'm not so sure, but I'll be back to write some more later.
    The poster formerly known as Disney_nut

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  7. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stickey View Post
    I do not believe that WDW management has complete authority over WDW plans and expenditures.
    Good thing, too. If they did, we wouldn't have Star Tours 2.0 or the new Fantasyland. It is also the primary reason we are likely getting a redone Hollywood Studios.
    The poster formerly known as Disney_nut

    Last Trip: 5/11 -- Swan

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  8. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stickey View Post
    I do not believe that WDW management has complete authority over WDW plans and expenditures.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jared View Post
    Good thing, too. If they did, we wouldn't have Star Tours 2.0 or the new Fantasyland. It is also the primary reason we are likely getting a redone Hollywood Studios.
    From talking with people who would know, here is how I understand the structure to work...

    TDO/Park Ops decides what projects they need done in the parks... They ask WDI to come up with concepts, pretty much telling Imagineers what they want for the project... Imagineering develops the concepts and present them to Park Management... Park Management gets a budget number from WDI and begins chopping away at the proposals... They finalize something and go to Meg Crofton for approval... She in turn takes the proposal to Tom Staggs, he takes it to Iger.. And Iger signs off... Stagss signs off, Crofton Signs off, Park VP signs off, WDI begins work... (BTW, if I am wrong, or am off somewhere in my description, and someone knows exactly how it works, please feel free to correct me... despite what others think, my EGO isn't that big to where I can't be corrected if I am wrong)...

    True, it may not always work that way... But that is the the basics of how it was explained to me.. of course, now, Iger and Staggs may not even get involved if the project is minor, like painting the roof of a resort or fixing up a kitchen in a restaurant... They only sign off if the project is major, like a large refurb, or a new attraction/park expansion...

    With regard to Star Tours and New Fantasyland, TDO was over ruled by the executives over in Cali... When the green light was given to refurb Star Tours, TDO didn't want it.. They refused... Then they only wanted a partial refurb... But, thankfully, they were over ruled... And New Fantasyland was forced on them because MK was busting at the seems and crumbling (not literally but almost literally) due to the stress the park was under from TDO's decisions to shut things down without replacements and cutting park capacity... Execs in Cali (probably Burbank but possibly Glendale) saw the numbers, saw how bad capacity was, and decided something was needed... Again, over ruling TDO...

    I'd much rather the huge decisions taken out of WDW managements' hands and given to the higher ups in California...
    Son of Jor-El.. Kneel before Zod...

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  9. #48
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    Forgive me for sounding ignorant, but what does TDO stand for?
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  10. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrPeetrie View Post
    Forgive me for sounding ignorant, but what does TDO stand for?
    Team Disney Orlando.. the management team of WDW...
    Son of Jor-El.. Kneel before Zod...

    TRICIA JONES: I heard that you were going to propose to Brandi Svenning at some theme park. When are men going to learn that women want ROMANCE, not Mr. Toad's Wild Ride...

    BRODIE: Hey, now, be fair. EVERYONE wants Mr. Toad's Wild Ride.

  11. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by lawgirl View Post
    However, the type of people (sorry this is very generalizing and sterotyping, and of course I don't mean everybody) that I've lately encountered at the TS and signature dining places are not really people that you would normally expect to be dining with....
    I don't like to be this way and I'm really not a snob, but I have to agree with lawgirl with the type of people I've seen. Not just in the restaurants but all over the resort. It seems to me since Disney started the free dining plan and room rate deals, the type of people coming to the parks aren't what you'd expect to see. I don't mean everyone who takes advantage of these deals falls in this category but there's some and they're noticeable. These are the people I see in EPCOT who get sloppy drunk and act like maniacs, they scream and carry on during rides and shows, complain about lines, prices, heat. They act as if they're entitled to everything. I believe that because it's easier for people like this to come to Disney and they're standards aren't as high as those of people who have been to Disney World many times, Disney thinks they can get away with cutting corners on the quality of things from merchandise to food to rides to cast members. In March I was in Disney for the weekend with some friends and these changes stood out to me on that stay. Saratoga Springs pool areas were a mess, we saw the same dead mouse next to a bush for 3 days, housekeeping took all the extra towels we had sent to our room. At the parks I noticed many people like I mentioned earlier. The one thing that surprised me happened in the shop at the American Adventure. I saw a really cute little girls shirt with Minnie on it and I held up and said to my friends "this is so adorable, I wish I had someone to buy it for." I put it back and the cast member working in the shop came over and told me how she wanted to buy it for her niece but even with her discount didn't want to pay the price so she was going to damage it and then buy it at an even greater discount at the company store. I thought to myself "how does this girl know I'm not working for Disney and doing a secret shopper kind of thing?". I can remember going to Disney from the time I was little through my 20's and it was so special and so different from anything else and now it's just not like that. It's lost something and I believe who ever is in charge of operations of the resorts and parks is to blame. They need to take a good look at what the parks and resorts have become and make some positive, exciting changes so Disney World is as special as it once was.

  12. #51
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    Im just suprised at a lot of this. I have always appreciated going to WDW and I always enjoy myself. I think the resteraunts are good are the best I have ever been to no but the atmosphere is some of the best Ive ever seen. I think some of these comments are very ungrateful (at least in my opion). I dont think Disney World is bad at all I personally love it. That doesnt mean I dont dislike some things that disney has done. (Ex. Closing of Snow
    White's Scary Adventure) But overall I think you should be extremely grateful to got to disney becasue many people dont have that opprotunity.

  13. #52
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    I think this whole thread is a fine example of "Familiarity breeds contempt". People long for the "good ole days" because we didn't know nearly as much about the operations or even the possibilities. There was no competition to compare WDW to. Rides broke down all the time back in the good ole days, but we just came to expect that. I remember going three straight summers before I ever got on Test Track. Heck, there were five straight shows of Kitchen Kabaret that we had to walk out of because the AAs didn't work right. My dad jokes about how often Space Mountain used to break down when he was on it. Anybody else remember waiting 2 hours to ride Splash Mountain, with no Fast Pass, then getting on during a thunderstorm?
    With all the information we have these days, I think we've come to hold WDW to impossibly high standards. Sure, they could do better in a lot of arenas....CMs aren't the quality they used to be (which I would only slightly disagree with...remember, they've expanded their workforce exponentially since the late 80s, because they added two theme parks and over a dozen resorts....they've had to settle in some areas). I would love for TDO to green-light more projects...I do feel like Imagineering is wasted potential. And I think the DDP has made WDW Dining a little complacent. But it's still where we choose to spend our money, because there's still no vacation like it. If that means I'm encouraging the "dark days" to continue...then so be it. The Dark Days of Disney are still way better than Atlantic City or Pigeon Forge.
    Steve

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  14. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by MissMaryPoppins View Post
    Saratoga Springs pool areas were a mess, we saw the same dead mouse next to a bush for 3 days,
    A sure sign of the "dark days"

    Quote Originally Posted by DizneyFreak2002 View Post
    Team Disney Orlando.. the management team of WDW...
    Thank you for clearing that up.


    I think Disney is still a great deal and a fun place to be.

    With Disney employing so many people chances are a few will not fully embrace the magic. Too bad those are the ones we will remember.

    As for food, I think its fine and maybe better in places.

    We can't wait to return in December.
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  15. #54
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    Thank you, DizneyFreak2002.
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  16. #55
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    Many times when we go, I swear it'll be our last.. b/c of all these reasons. But Disney is like a drug, and they know they have you hooked. I guess it's still good enough, and I think "good enough" is all they plan for.

    If it's broke, don't fix it. If it's working, fix it. Summarizes it.. Kudos for posting!

  17. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Renfairwedding View Post
    Thank you for clearing that up.
    Quote Originally Posted by MrPeetrie View Post
    Thank you, DizneyFreak2002.
    You are more than welcome...
    Son of Jor-El.. Kneel before Zod...

    TRICIA JONES: I heard that you were going to propose to Brandi Svenning at some theme park. When are men going to learn that women want ROMANCE, not Mr. Toad's Wild Ride...

    BRODIE: Hey, now, be fair. EVERYONE wants Mr. Toad's Wild Ride.

  18. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gator View Post
    I've never had a small oversight by staff ruin my entire vacation at WDW. They've all been great.
    Our vacation wasnt ruined, but theres been only one CM that I can remember being a jerk

    He was working the entrance at DHS.

    And he was a big enough jerk that we did report him.

    I hope he was fired.
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  19. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by KevMcNJ View Post
    Our vacation wasnt ruined, but theres been only one CM that I can remember being a jerk

    He was working the entrance at DHS.

    And he was a big enough jerk that we did report him.

    I hope he was fired.
    Wahaha! Yeah, I've had one of those at the fastpass line at ToT. He's was all in my face. I just contacted management about him, and told him "you're just mad cuz your dressed that way."
    My name is Gator. You killed my Sorcerer's Hat. Prepare to die.

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  20. #59
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    We've been going roughly every couple of years since 1999. Each time we go I worry that we won't have as much fun as the last time, because the last time was amazing! But each trip has been amazing and left us wanting more. We absolutely feel that we are getting the value we hope for and more out of each trip.

    CM's - Out of all of our trips I can only definitely remember one bad one, possibly there were two, but I can't remember for sure. So many go out of their way for us on every trip, and I remember two really wonderful ones from our last trip.

    Dining - We almost always enjoy the food at the TS restaurants. I can only remember one bad meal I had and not always being pleased with what the kids meals looked like. The QS has gotten better! There are more healthy options and more variety.

    Characters - each year they seem to interact even more with the kids and those are some of our most magical memories.

    There are park additions that we haven't even gotten a chance to try yet on previous trips, and now there's a whole new section coming to life in MK!

    Overall we have wonderful vacations there. Going there every couple of years seems to be just right for us, although there are years I miss going even though I love our other destinations too. Value is relative and only each of us individually can say whether the value is there for us. For our money, Disney has solidly delivered every time!

  21. #60
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    Quote from Lawgirl
    However, the type of people (sorry this is very generalizing and sterotyping, and of course I don't mean everybody) that I've lately encountered at the TS and signature dining places are not really people that you would normally expect to be dining with.

    Quote Originally Posted by MissMaryPoppins View Post
    I don't like to be this way and I'm really not a snob, but I have to agree with lawgirl with the type of people I've seen. Not just in the restaurants but all over the resort. It seems to me since Disney started the free dining plan and room rate deals, the type of people coming to the parks aren't what you'd expect to see.
    I find this a fascinating comment. Considering the high costs of a Disney vacation, I can't see anyone being able to even afford to go unless they are at LEAST a good solid middle class. I'd say that narrows the socio-economic demographic considerably. I'm having a hard time not feeling really offended.

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