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  1. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zip-a-Dee-Doo-Da Disney View Post
    Yeah Disney no matter what is a fun place and is great! And you are just lucky that you can go because I know some people who would love to go but can not because they dont have the financial needs. I think you are lucky to have the means to go to Disney.
    There's no question that those of us who can afford to go to any Disney parks are among the fortunate minority, given that so many people in the world could never even dream of being able to do. For some people it is luck, for others, the result of lots of hard work, and for some a combination of both. I am very grateful for all of the blessings in life that I have in this life, but Disney didn't give me anything. Disney simply provides me (and others) a place to spend some of those blessings. Hopefully, Disney will continue to provide a good return for all the money we spend on vacations there. When they don't, and we complain about it, that's not being ungrateful. If they were giving away vacations to everyone who showed up, and then we complained about bad show, poor food, crowd management, etc. then that would be "ungrateful".
    1971 (age 15) MK was new!
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  3. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by mom2morgan View Post
    Well said! I'm grateful that I can afford to go to Disney - but DISNEY is not doing me any favours! I'd assume THEY are "grateful" that customers are still coming and paying, since THEY are the ones benefitting from that arrangement!
    Since I DO have money to go on vacation, Disney should be working extra hard to make sure I spend it there rather than in the many other places that want my business.
    Well said.
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  5. #83
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    I've been reading this thread with interest.... I know it seems like all the negative remarks about Disney World are a new thing, that this didn't happen in "the good old days". But if you do a search and go back to old threads from 5 or so years ago you will see many of the same complaints being lodged back then--that customer service is slipping, the parks are being neglected, restaurant food quality is going downhill, that a vacation at Disney now requires over-planning, ticket/resort prices are exorbitant, that TPTB are driving the corporation into the ground. If the search engine could go back even further, you would see it even 12 years ago, when I first joined the INTERCOT staff (unfortunately, the search engine can only tap what's in the archives that far back!)

    I am not negating some of the remarks that have been in this thread, just trying to offer some perspective. That the good old days of WDW were not always magical, it just seems that way in retrospect. I do think consumers have the right to vote with their dollars, so to speak, on what works for them and what doesn't. But I also think they need to temper their expectations with realism.
    Beth
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  6. #84
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    Default Prices

    Everything goes up and Disney is no exception. Although I feel that I still get more here for my money and family there still is a point where it wont be worth it.
    Raising the admission when most of fantasyland was closed seemed to me like a big mistake but they did it anyway?
    CM's also are not paid very well but Disney always gets paid. Maybe the higher ups should spread it around a little so the CM's feel more appreciated which will make a better experience for guests. They are the face of the company and for me make my vacation (or break it).
    My family will still visit but I do agree that things are changing in the world and not for the better.

  7. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by joonyer View Post
    There's no question that those of us who can afford to go to any Disney parks are among the fortunate minority, given that so many people in the world could never even dream of being able to do. For some people it is luck, for others, the result of lots of hard work, and for some a combination of both. I am very grateful for all of the blessings in life that I have in this life, but Disney didn't give me anything. Disney simply provides me (and others) a place to spend some of those blessings. Hopefully, Disney will continue to provide a good return for all the money we spend on vacations there. When they don't, and we complain about it, that's not being ungrateful. If they were giving away vacations to everyone who showed up, and then we complained about bad show, poor food, crowd management, etc. then that would be "ungrateful".
    I was just saying that if disney is where you choose to spend that money. Than Just be glad. I apolagize if anything Ive said has come of rude. It was not my intention.

  8. #86
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    Default My take on it

    Having been many times (not annually) over the years and heading back this December I fully expect things to be a bit more worn than when they were the first time I went as a 10 year old back in 1982. But whether or not my vacation is a good one rests solely on how my youngests eyes light up when she walks through the turnstile for the very first time...To me the "magic" is seeing the kids come alive whether riding Space Mountain for the first time or having to wait in line for 90 minutes because they MUST HAVE that one signature that they have been waiting for...all the other stuff, to me at least, is minor. So I try to remember not how the parks looked on my first visit but rather the sheer exuberance I felt knowing I was in "the World" and try to make sure all of my five kids get that feeling...
    As of Dec 06 we are now 7
    Off site 1982
    Off site 1983
    Caribbean Beach 1989
    Pop Century 2004 (DW's first visit)
    Caribbean Beach 2006

    Contemporary CL Youngests first trip December 2012

  9. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by mom2morgan View Post
    Quote from Lawgirl
    However, the type of people (sorry this is very generalizing and sterotyping, and of course I don't mean everybody) that I've lately encountered at the TS and signature dining places are not really people that you would normally expect to be dining with.



    I find this a fascinating comment. Considering the high costs of a Disney vacation, I can't see anyone being able to even afford to go unless they are at LEAST a good solid middle class. I'd say that narrows the socio-economic demographic considerably. I'm having a hard time not feeling really offended.
    I have to agree with Mom2Morgan here. I was a little insulted by this comment.

    Having worked at a few of the WDW resorts in the past I can personally say that I was treated worse as a Castmember at the Grand Floridian than I was at some of the less expensive resorts. I have met rude people with a sensce of entitlement at all levels of WDW resort hotels.

    Just because my family waits for a discount to go to Disney does not make us classless rubes bringing the whole atmosphere of disney down. For me, I feel like rack rate priced Disney vacation is not worth the money. I also feel that the deluxes are not worth the amount of money that it costs to stay in them.

    The decline in show quality along with the increase in prices has made us choose other vacation destinations now. We only go to disney every three years or so now. It used to be that Disney set the bar for vacation destinations and now we are discovering that that just isn't true.

    The price for the resort rooms is way out of control for what you would pay for a similar room outside of Disney. We stayed in four and five star hotels right in the heart of London for half the price of what most deluxes cost for the night. Plus we are giving our kids actual world experiences instead of the Epcot version. We are discovering more and more that we can go on other trips for what is costs to go to Disney and enjoy ourselves just as much.

    That being said... we are going to Disney in the fall to get a real American experience after living overseas for a while. We are looking forward to it. We got the free dining and are looking forward to some nice meals. Hopefully we won't bring the atmosphere down with our pure middle classness.

    On another note... I was so impressed by Disneyland and the way they really brought the parks back to life. We went there last summer and were blown away! If we were not limited to an east coast trip this fall I would have picked Disneyland over Disneyworld. Whatever they are doing in California is really working.
    Too many trips to count!
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    DisneyWorld!
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    Coming soon Tokyo!
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    I have stayed at: All Star Movies, All Star Music, Pop Century, Art of Animation, Port Orleans Riverside, Caribbean Beach Resort, Saratoga Springs Resort

  10. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by disneynarula View Post
    Having worked at a few of the WDW resorts in the past I can personally say that I was treated worse as a Castmember at the Grand Floridian than I was at some of the less expensive resorts. I have met rude people with a sensce of entitlement at all levels of WDW resort hotels.
    That's because having class has nothing to do with how much money you have.
    Many visits over 35+ years!
    DVC member since 2004 (SSR)

    Stayed at: Bay Lake Tower, Polynesian, Contemporary, Wilderness Lodge, Boardwalk, Beach Club, Dolphin, PO Riverside, AS Sports, AS Movies, Saratoga, Vero Beach, Hilton Head, Aulani, Disneyland Hotel, and Grand Californian.

  11. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aurora View Post
    That's because having class has nothing to do with how much money you have.
    My point exactly. I don't think it's room discounts and free dining that are bringing down the atmopshere in the parks.
    Too many trips to count!
    Disneyland!
    DisneyWorld!
    Disneyland Paris!
    Coming soon Tokyo!
    [SIZE=4][/SIZE

    I have stayed at: All Star Movies, All Star Music, Pop Century, Art of Animation, Port Orleans Riverside, Caribbean Beach Resort, Saratoga Springs Resort

  12. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aurora View Post
    That's because having class has nothing to do with how much money you have.
    There's a great big beautiful tomorrow
    CR 74, 7, 11 Offsite 79,80,98,00,8 (2) Sports 94 DD 02 AKL 05, 08 AKLV 8 WL 6, 10 POP 07, 13 Movies 08 CBR 08 Swan 08 POFQ 08,11 CSR 08,13 FWC 09,13 Music 09 SSR-Tree 09 POR 10 12 Poly 10 (2) YC 10, BC 10, GF 10, AoA 13, OKW 13, Dream 11, next fwc 1/2014

  13. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zip-a-Dee-Doo-Da Disney View Post
    I was just saying that if disney is where you choose to spend that money. Than Just be glad. I apolagize if anything Ive said has come of rude. It was not my intention.
    No offense taken. No apology needed. I am grateful for all that I have. I just wish Disney acted a little more "grateful" towards it customers, rather than seemingly treating as if we will keep on spending our money there no matter how they treat us. Sometimes, that's the way they make me feel, anyway. As if we should somehow feel beholden to them, when it should be the other way around.
    1971 (age 15) MK was new!
    1974 off-site (Senior Trip)
    1982 off-site
    1988 off-site
    May 2002 AS-Sports, with DW & kids
    May 2004 Pop Century
    Feb 2005 Wilderness Lodge
    Oct 2006 Pop Century
    Oct 2008 Camped at Fort Wilderness
    Feb 2010 Cruise on the Wonder
    Dec 2014 POFQ for Christmas!

  14. #92
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    As the prices increase, everybody's expectation increases also. Where Disney is getting into trouble is that your money is not going as far as it used to. Disney is offering higher prices and giving us less services/choices...

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  16. #93
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    We go every year and have never had a bad vacation. No one bats 1.000 in the Major Leagues. We're going back next year too. When we're empty nesters, we'll try to the Food and Wine festival.

  17. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bass T-bone View Post
    As the prices increase, everybody's expectation increases also. Where Disney is getting into trouble is that your money is not going as far as it used to. Disney is offering higher prices and giving us less services/choices...
    I'll agree with that and go one step farther. The price we pay is going up and the quality we get is going down.

  18. #95
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    So, I posted this almost ten years ago (I can't believe it's been that long), and in reading it, I asked if in 5-10 years we would be happy with the changes that they've made to Walt Disney World. I thought it would be worth discussing. And a LOT of changes have been made! While I miss some things (Streets of America, Backlot Tour, Great Movie Ride, Club Cool and Innoventions, some of the classic dark rides in the MK Fantastyland, etc), I like the changes. I like what has been added to the parks.

    Not happy about losing benefits that were free (like how appetizers and gratuity used to be included in the DDP), and really hate FP+ and hope it does not come back. Also not happy about pricing in general, but consumers never are happy about price increases.

    Also not happy with restaurants getting converted to Signature Restaurants, like Le Cellier and Be Our Guest. For the money, I don't think they're worth it. But that's a very subjective thing.

    Thoughts?

    Quote Originally Posted by azcavalier View Post
    Maybe it's just me, but there seems to be a lot of negativity about the way things at WDW have been headed. It's even got me to be a bit snippy on here! SO, first off, I apologize to anyone whom i've been grumpy with, especially the moderators and QuadStriker.

    But I wonder if it's really gotten worse, or if we tend to remember more fondly than it really was? My Grandma has been dead for 40 years, and all the time I was growing up my Mom complained that every year (according to my Dad) that Grandma's cooking was better and better. You could never top her biscuits, no matter what you did, even with the same recipe.

    That said, here are some of the main topics that have gotten me thinking about it:

    1. Restaurant quality has gone down - DDP to blame? Budget cuts?

    2. Expansion changes (or not)- no Beastly Kingdom, Various refurbs whittled away to almost nothing (Space Mountain), new construction not up to par (Dumbo ride getting damaged, Yeti issues), buildings sitting empty, such as Wonders of Life Pavilion, the Imagination building being reduced to the Figment ride and the awful Michael Jackson movie.

    3. Not fixing "the show" - various elements on multiple rides not functioning, and not getting fixed, such as COP, Splash Mountain, EE, the Great Movie Ride, Fantasmic, etc, etc.

    4. Poor management decisions - from the Avatarland project announcement, to the Avatarland project suspension, to taking Splash Mountain off of nighttime EMH and adding the Country Bears and Tiki Room.

    5. If it's broke, don't fix it. If it works, then let's change it! - New Fast Pass system, interactive queues instead of fixing the rides themselves.

    6. Nickle & diming, price increases - charging for after hour parties, the dessert party, the possibility of a $200 add-on for an "interactive Magic Kingdom Game Experience" that is currently on the exit surveys, increase in DDP prices with less offerings, increase in overall park tickets.

    7. The basic idea that management at TDO doesn't really care what the consumer wants, that they just want to justify their own decisions, whether they're wanted or not (i.e. the new costumes that CMs at the American Experience have to wear).

    I'm not trying to be negative. I believe that all of us *love* WDW or we wouldn't be on here posting. And things have to change. AND no matter what decision that management makes, they can't please everyone.

    So, is it really that bad now? Or are we just remembering the good ol' days, and maybe they weren't as good as we think they were?

    Lastly, will changes be coming, and we'll all be happy 5-10 years from now with everything that Disney has done to our Vacation Kingdom?
    2002 - 2022: 20+ visits (POR, BW, All Stars, VWL, CSR, BLT, BC, SSR, CB, Dolphin, OKW, Poly, offsite x8)
    DL - 1996, 2019
    Next up - January 2023 short trip! We just want to try that 50th Anniversary chocolate monstrosity at Mexico!

  19. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by azcavalier View Post
    So, I posted this almost ten years ago (I can't believe it's been that long), and in reading it, I asked if in 5-10 years we would be happy with the changes that they've made to Walt Disney World. I thought it would be worth discussing. And a LOT of changes have been made! While I miss some things (Streets of America, Backlot Tour, Great Movie Ride, Club Cool and Innoventions, some of the classic dark rides in the MK Fantastyland, etc), I like the changes. I like what has been added to the parks.

    Not happy about losing benefits that were free (like how appetizers and gratuity used to be included in the DDP), and really hate FP+ and hope it does not come back. Also not happy about pricing in general, but consumers never are happy about price increases.

    Also not happy with restaurants getting converted to Signature Restaurants, like Le Cellier and Be Our Guest. For the money, I don't think they're worth it. But that's a very subjective thing.

    Thoughts?
    Well, Covid aside, I feel like the quality has gone down significantly in the last 10 years. On our last trip, my kids were talking about how it wasn't worth the money any more. I do find it interesting to see how people who haven't been going for as long as we have are enchanted with it now, but those of us who have been before feel as if the quality has declined. DDIL1 loves going. DS1 doesn't want to go back. One example of this is Liberty Tree Tavern. The character interaction was amazing there in the past. My kids miss that. Their spouses can't miss what they have never seen.

    They are slowly whittling away the things that make me want to go back, and most of the the stuff they have replaced it with doesn't really appeal to me. I do like the Fantasyland expansion. I don't like the stuff they have taken away from MNSSHP. I miss the Pirate & Princess parties. I definitely prefer Disneyland's Maxpass to Fastpass at WDW. I do enjoy the ease of the Magicbands though.
    I'll meet you at the Rainbow Bridge.

  20. #97
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    None of this is even remotely close to Walt's vision or his idea .
    Read any one of these quotes. it tells a story. https://quotefancy.com/walt-disney-quotes

  21. #98
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    Disney's firing of Gina Carano has me really bummed. Free speech should not be silenced. We have a trip planned for June that we're already all in on between tickets and airfare. However this latest stunt really has me thinking about selling our DVC points. I think ol' Walt would be turning over in his grave!
    Beth & David

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  23. #99
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    Here's my biggest issue... the mission.

    When Walt set out to build this - I'm quite sure he didn't want the parks to turn into a place that the average American family can't afford to attend or one that seems to cater increasingly to the most wealthy of clients.

    Look, I get it - it's a for profit company. They should want to make a buck - but as part of the founding principles of Disneyland and in turn other Disney Parks is the cornerstone of being able to escape to a world of fantasy - that is clean and safe.

    The reality is - the Disney vacation that I grew up knowing from the first time we went in 1974 bears no resemblance to where we are in 2021.

    If you were to ask me what makes me most sad - it's just that. Not the tearing down of a ride, or the changing out of this or that. The thought that many won't get to experience the joy and magic that compelled me to return time after time and in adulthood - create this place... INTERCOT.


    “The important thing is the family. If you can keep the family together — and that’s the backbone of our whole business, catering to families — that’s what we hope to do.”

    “I don’t want the public to see the world they live in while they’re in the Park (Disneyland). I want to feel they’re in another world.”

    “Disneyland is a work of love. We didn’t go into Disneyland just with the idea of making money.”

    “But it all started from a daddy with two daughters wondering where he could take them where he could have a little fun with them, too.”

    - Walt Disney
    Last edited by John; 02-12-2021 at 04:18 PM.
    John - aka. The Master Control Program
    Owner, Chairman & Chief Imagination Officer - INTERCOT

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  25. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by baldburke View Post
    Disney's firing of Gina Carano has me really bummed. Free speech should not be silenced. We have a trip planned for June that we're already all in on between tickets and airfare. However this latest stunt really has me thinking about selling our DVC points. I think ol' Walt would be turning over in his grave!
    I'm not looking to start an argument, and I'm a Gina Carano fan, but I don't equate this with silencing of free speech.

    Our right to free speech is HIGHLY misunderstood. The Constitution simply protects us from the government's ability to censor our speech. Meaning that they cannot jail us for speaking out against the government.

    What Gina did was that she was very vocal about political matters and ideals that Disney does not agree with. They have *every* right to let her go because they don't like the spotlight that her comments create as an employee of the company. If I was a fast food restaurant owner, and one of my front-line employees refused to stop wearing divisive or controversial shirts while working the front counter, I'd fire that person, too. That's not a cancelation or silencing of free speech. That's just consequences for your actions. If you work for a company and continue to say things that those who run the company disagree with, especially during this highly politically charged time, and the company thinks it could affect their image, then you're gonna get fired.
    2002 - 2022: 20+ visits (POR, BW, All Stars, VWL, CSR, BLT, BC, SSR, CB, Dolphin, OKW, Poly, offsite x8)
    DL - 1996, 2019
    Next up - January 2023 short trip! We just want to try that 50th Anniversary chocolate monstrosity at Mexico!

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