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  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by azcavalier View Post
    I'm not looking to start an argument, and I'm a Gina Carano fan, but I don't equate this with silencing of free speech.
    I agree that I don't want to get into an argument either. However, if you look at what Pedro Pascal, The Mandalorian himself, posted as compared to what Gina posted then is just comes across as a slight against one view vs. another. And unfortunately that seems to be the dangerous path we are headed down. Disney did it again over the weekend by firing Bachelor host Chris Harrison. Old Walt new a thing or two about freedom when he helped the war effort back in the 1940's.
    Beth & David

    09/82 Treehouse Villas, 06/86 BVP, 10/95 CBR, 10/99 DI, 08/03 PORS, 10/05 POP, 11/06 AKL, 09/09 POLY, 10/10 Wonder, 05/11 Dream/PORS, 08/13 POLY, 11/13 GF, 04/15 POLY, 11/15 BLT, 11/16 Aulani, 03/17 BLT, 08/18 BLT, 07/19 AKL
    , 06/21 BLT

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  3. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by azcavalier View Post
    I'm not looking to start an argument, and I'm a Gina Carano fan, but I don't equate this with silencing of free speech.

    Our right to free speech is HIGHLY misunderstood. The Constitution simply protects us from the government's ability to censor our speech. Meaning that they cannot jail us for speaking out against the government.

    What Gina did was that she was very vocal about political matters and ideals that Disney does not agree with. They have *every* right to let her go because they don't like the spotlight that her comments create as an employee of the company. If I was a fast food restaurant owner, and one of my front-line employees refused to stop wearing divisive or controversial shirts while working the front counter, I'd fire that person, too. That's not a cancelation or silencing of free speech. That's just consequences for your actions. If you work for a company and continue to say things that those who run the company disagree with, especially during this highly politically charged time, and the company thinks it could affect their image, then you're gonna get fired.
    But you said "while working". I believe she can say what she wants while she's not at work just like everyone else.
    You are right about it being about things Disney does not agree with. Other people have said inflammatory things that aligned with Disney's beliefs and had no repercussions.
    Personally, I think businesses should stay out of politics. Disney is an entertainment company. They should stay in their own lane.
    I'll meet you at the Rainbow Bridge.

  4. #103
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    Let me reiterate that I like Gina Carano, and I don't think that they should have fired her. She's great in that role, and she's not a bad person. That said...

    Quote Originally Posted by baldburke View Post
    I agree that I don't want to get into an argument either. However, if you look at what Pedro Pascal, The Mandalorian himself, posted as compared to what Gina posted then is just comes across as a slight against one view vs. another. And unfortunately that seems to be the dangerous path we are headed down. Disney did it again over the weekend by firing Bachelor host Chris Harrison. Old Walt new a thing or two about freedom when he helped the war effort back in the 1940's.
    At what point does someone's "view" cross the line to being not acceptable? If Gina or Chris (and I don't know what Chris said) had said that in their view it was perfectly normal to cannibalize one's children, would we be OK with them continuing to work for Disney? Basically, we only seem to get in an uproar when we tend to agree with that person's view and they then get held accountable for it.

    Gina and Chris are completely free to keep working. Their rights have not been violated, nor have their freedoms been curbed. They can continue to believe what they believe and say what they want to say without fear of prosecution. They just have to realize that it might close doors to their prospects going forward.

    My son is really, really smart. He would do well at most universities. However, in high school, he chose to not work hard in really easy classes (photography/film, for example) and just didn't do some assignments. Took zeros on them. His GPA was average...because when you get three 100's and one 0, that's a 75. When the time came to apply for college, there were a lot that he was interested in, but his choices had closed those doors. Was his freedom to attend the college of his choice taken from him? Yes. BY HIM. He made those choices, and then he faced the consequences of those choices.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cinderelley View Post
    But you said "while working". I believe she can say what she wants while she's not at work just like everyone else.
    You are right about it being about things Disney does not agree with. Other people have said inflammatory things that aligned with Disney's beliefs and had no repercussions.
    Personally, I think businesses should stay out of politics. Disney is an entertainment company. They should stay in their own lane.
    It's about optics more than it's about politics. Gina can vote however she wants, and she wouldn't have been fired for that. But when you're such a public figure, and you are really pushing against the majority in the field in which you work, that's a really risky thing to do.

    Also, "being under contract" = "While working". Even if you're not actively filming you're still under contract. I know of college students attending exclusive universities who got expelled for stuff they did during summer break. Because even though you're not on campus, you're still a student of that university. Same thing applies here.
    2002 - 2017: 20+ visits (POR, BW, All Stars, VWL, CSR, BLT, BC, SSR, CB, Dolphin, OKW, offsite x4)
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  5. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by azcavalier View Post
    It's about optics more than it's about politics. Gina can vote however she wants, and she wouldn't have been fired for that. But when you're such a public figure, and you are really pushing against the majority in the field in which you work, that's a really risky thing to do.
    You hit the nail on the head with this! "Pushing against the majority in the field in which you work." Say what you want to say, so long as you don't disagree with me. AKA, cancel culture.
    Beth & David

    09/82 Treehouse Villas, 06/86 BVP, 10/95 CBR, 10/99 DI, 08/03 PORS, 10/05 POP, 11/06 AKL, 09/09 POLY, 10/10 Wonder, 05/11 Dream/PORS, 08/13 POLY, 11/13 GF, 04/15 POLY, 11/15 BLT, 11/16 Aulani, 03/17 BLT, 08/18 BLT, 07/19 AKL
    , 06/21 BLT

  6. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by baldburke View Post
    AKA, cancel culture.
    Well, it remains to be seen if she'll actually get "canceled". If she never gets a job acting again (or even for a long time), then yes. If she's fired here, but gets another shot somewhere else, then it's not really the cancel culture.

    There is a position coach in football who recently went from BYU to the University of Troy. He was then hired by Baylor in the offseason to become their Offensive Line coach. But then within a day, they pulled the offer. Apparently, when he was a late teen (18 or 19) he went to a party or something in blackface. It happened once, and pictures were taken. Those pictures surfaced, and that's why Baylor pulled the offer. To me, that's idiotic. He has apologized publicly, and acknowledged the stupidity of it, but also pointed out that he was a teenager, and now he's a man with a family and more life experience. If he doesn't get hired anywhere, then it's cancel culture at its finest.

    Don't we believe in second chances? Atoning for mistakes? If someone says or does something stupid, shows remorse and growth, then they should be given another shot (within limits). I believe in accountability for your actions, but I also believe in second chances.

    Now, in Gina Carano's case, even though I said that it's more about optics than politics, it really is about political differences. She didn't make some mistake (like putting on blackface) or break any laws or infringe on someone's rights (like sexually assaulting someone). Her outspokenness on unpopular political beliefs is what led to her ouster, because Disney felt it made them look bad. So, you could argue that it's more like discrimination than cancel culture. There will be no 2nd chance with her, because people don't generally apologize for political stances.
    2002 - 2017: 20+ visits (POR, BW, All Stars, VWL, CSR, BLT, BC, SSR, CB, Dolphin, OKW, offsite x4)
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  7. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by azcavalier View Post
    Let me reiterate that I like Gina Carano, and I don't think that they should have fired her. She's great in that role, and she's not a bad person. That said...



    At what point does someone's "view" cross the line to being not acceptable? If Gina or Chris (and I don't know what Chris said) had said that in their view it was perfectly normal to cannibalize one's children, would we be OK with them continuing to work for Disney? Basically, we only seem to get in an uproar when we tend to agree with that person's view and they then get held accountable for it.

    Gina and Chris are completely free to keep working. Their rights have not been violated, nor have their freedoms been curbed. They can continue to believe what they believe and say what they want to say without fear of prosecution. They just have to realize that it might close doors to their prospects going forward.

    My son is really, really smart. He would do well at most universities. However, in high school, he chose to not work hard in really easy classes (photography/film, for example) and just didn't do some assignments. Took zeros on them. His GPA was average...because when you get three 100's and one 0, that's a 75. When the time came to apply for college, there were a lot that he was interested in, but his choices had closed those doors. Was his freedom to attend the college of his choice taken from him? Yes. BY HIM. He made those choices, and then he faced the consequences of those choices.



    It's about optics more than it's about politics. Gina can vote however she wants, and she wouldn't have been fired for that. But when you're such a public figure, and you are really pushing against the majority in the field in which you work, that's a really risky thing to do.

    Also, "being under contract" = "While working". Even if you're not actively filming you're still under contract. I know of college students attending exclusive universities who got expelled for stuff they did during summer break. Because even though you're not on campus, you're still a student of that university. Same thing applies here.
    Actually, I am pretty open with what anyone has to say other than talking about hurting others. I don't have to agree with them to take an interest in their point of view. There are some societies that find cannibalism acceptable. I would be curious to ask them why they think that.

    I also don't think anyone's life should be tied to their work (or school). If she wasn't on the set, in costume, at a Disney sponsored event, etc, I think she can say whatever she would like (minus hurting others). I do think that things should be fair though. If she is going to get punished for making statements, others should be also. If they aren't going to be punished, she shouldn't be.

    Everyone can have their own opinion. It doesn't make them bad or good, just different, and different is what makes the world go around.
    I'll meet you at the Rainbow Bridge.

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  9. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by azcavalier View Post
    Now, in Gina Carano's case, even though I said that it's more about optics than politics, it really is about political differences. She didn't make some mistake (like putting on blackface) or break any laws or infringe on someone's rights (like sexually assaulting someone). Her outspokenness on unpopular political beliefs is what led to her ouster, because Disney felt it made them look bad. So, you could argue that it's more like discrimination than cancel culture. There will be no 2nd chance with her, because people don't generally apologize for political stances.

    Unpopular in whose eyes? It's cancel culture. It's been brewing for some time now but just got a free pass nine months ago.
    Beth & David

    09/82 Treehouse Villas, 06/86 BVP, 10/95 CBR, 10/99 DI, 08/03 PORS, 10/05 POP, 11/06 AKL, 09/09 POLY, 10/10 Wonder, 05/11 Dream/PORS, 08/13 POLY, 11/13 GF, 04/15 POLY, 11/15 BLT, 11/16 Aulani, 03/17 BLT, 08/18 BLT, 07/19 AKL
    , 06/21 BLT

  10. #108
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    *WARNING* Long post. Read if you want to think and discuss.

    Quote Originally Posted by baldburke View Post
    Unpopular in whose eyes? It's cancel culture. It's been brewing for some time now but just got a free pass nine months ago.
    Unpopular in the circles in which she tends to operate. I'm from RURAL Virginia, but I work on a college campus. TBH, I'm a moderate conservative. I'm not right-wing enough for my home county, but I'm too conservative for my college colleagues. But Gina Carano is more conservative than I am, and she's working in a much more liberal atmosphere. So, her views would be viewed as toxic in that environment.

    If anyone is interested, here is a Facebook post by my brother. He is more liberal, but he's very level-headed (and doesn't think that the opposing political viewpoint is evil). After reading his post and thinking about it, I think he's dead on here.

    "There is something of a moral panic happening around the idea of “cancel culture”, both on the political right generally and specifically among some members of the left intelligentsia. If you aren’t familiar with it, the basic idea is that “the left” has started to “cancel” (get fired, get kicked off social media, and/or generally gang up on) people who express non-politically correct opinions. Some recent purported examples of someone being “cancelled” include Gina Carano, who up until last week played a popular character on Disney’s “The Mandalorian”, and who was released from that show in the wake of posting comments on Instagram to the effect that hating someone for their political views is similar to the persecution of Jews during the Holocaust (for the record: this is not true). Carano has also posted opinions to the effect that mask wearing does not help stop the spread of COVID, and that there was significant voter fraud in the election (for the record: neither of these claims is true either). In the wake of these posts, the hashtag #FireGinaCarano trended on Instagram, and a few days after that Disney released her from the show.
    Perhaps more seriously, there’s a popular set of ideas spreading rooted in “critical race theory” (CRT). CRT has a bunch of tenets, and a deep dive into it is well beyond the scope I want to address here, but in very broad terms it examines how society relates to ideas of race and power, and in particular, how our current society was built on top of white supremacy and works to perpetuate the power of white people. Which seems fair enough; almost nobody denies that race, real, constructed, or other, has an impact on society and vice versa, and examining that relationship seems like a valuable thing to do. And no one with even the slightest knowledge of American history will seriously dispute the pervasive effect of white supremacy on the shape of American society, at least up through the 1980s.
    But the popular ideas spread in the name of CRT, perhaps most notoriously by Robin DiAngelo in her book "White Fragility" (which I’ll call WF, to distinguish it from the far more nuanced ideas contained in CRT) -- sometimes posit that a) much of what we generally accept as Enlightenment Values, including meritocracy, legal neutrality, and even logical reasoning and the scientific method, are in fact tools of white supremacy; and b) that there is no intellectually honest way to disagree with or even interrogate the tenets of WF. Anyone who questions is a racist. WT therefore acts like a red pill for those who accept its ideas.
    What’s a liberal white Christian scientist to do in the face of these sorts of ideas?
    I’m not sure I have a complete answer, because It Depends(tm). Liberals strive for tolerance of others and their life choices, but contrary to popular opinion on the right that does not imply that we have to tolerate intolerance or be hypocrites. Your right to your opinion stops when your fist meets my face, and all that. There really are some opinions out there that are beyond what any functioning society can accept; in the United States, for instance, these would include that Donald Trump should be President for life, that Hitler had it about right regarding Jews, that slavery was a net good for black people. You have a right to wear a swastika t-shirt and not be arrested -- but that’s all. You can’t wear that t-shirt to your job as a customer service rep in the morning and expect to still be employed at lunchtime.
    On the other hand, any functioning Christian has to make significant allowances for humans being human. We believe in forgiveness, in redemption. We don’t believe in immediate punishment for every bad act. That was Satan’s plan, not God’s, which is why the world is the way it is.
    All that being said, here’s what I’m absolutely certain of: mob violence against other human beings is uniformly bad. As a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (the denomination formerly known as The Mormons), I can attest to this. There’s a reason we are a nation of laws and not of opinions, and for me that reason lies in the graves of the leaders of my church -- and a couple of ancestors -- who were murdered for their religious beliefs. And make no mistake, trending a hashtag to get someone fired because you disagree with what they say is a form of violence. So you will not see me forwarding any incitements to get a private citizen fired or deplatformed for their public statements unless those statements are themselves incitements to hatred or violence. And the problem with social media is exactly this: it actively enables and even encourages just this sort of mob violence.
    I’m also absolutely certain that any system of beliefs that equates skepticism to heresy -- as WF does -- forfeits anything else true it might have to say. This is the proverbial teaspoon of dog poop in the chocolate pie.
    Finally, I’m fairly well convinced that WF is the logical opposite of Nazism, in the sense that both WF and Nazism posit that race is the principal (only?) framework around which society can be understood; the two ideologies then take that conclusion in different directions. But I don’t accept the premise. I don’t wish to live in a world where the fundamental Nazi premise that the nature of society is a struggle between races is the correct one, and as a Christian I *can’t* accept that premise.
    Racism is real, *structural* racism is also real, and liberal thinkers have some valuable things to say about both. White fragility (the concept, not the book), is also real. Of course it is; we're all humans, and we're all fragile. We need to think of ourselves as good people, almost no matter what we think or how we act, and becoming defensive when challenged with our own failures is one of the most natural instincts there is. But to address the reality (and real harms) of racism without causing further damage doesn't require becoming anti-racist, as DiAngelo defines it. But I think it may require becoming anti-fragile. We have to be open to claims of harm from others without becoming intellectually closed ourselves, on either side of the debate.
    So what are we to do with Gina Carano? Well, there really is a struggle for the soul of the United States, and that struggle is important. Its outcome will have real effects on real people. And Carano is -- in my opinion -- on the wrong side of it. But getting her fired for her political views won’t help resolve it. There are better ways, more effective ways, ways that will cause less harm and fewer broken relationships. Loving your enemy is a better way of turning her into your friend than drop-kicking her."
    2002 - 2017: 20+ visits (POR, BW, All Stars, VWL, CSR, BLT, BC, SSR, CB, Dolphin, OKW, offsite x4)
    DL - 1996, 2019
    Next up - May 2021 offsite

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  12. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by azcavalier View Post
    *WARNING* Long post. Read if you want to think and discuss.



    Unpopular in the circles in which she tends to operate. I'm from RURAL Virginia, but I work on a college campus. TBH, I'm a moderate conservative. I'm not right-wing enough for my home county, but I'm too conservative for my college colleagues. But Gina Carano is more conservative than I am, and she's working in a much more liberal atmosphere. So, her views would be viewed as toxic in that environment.

    If anyone is interested, here is a Facebook post by my brother. He is more liberal, but he's very level-headed (and doesn't think that the opposing political viewpoint is evil). After reading his post and thinking about it, I think he's dead on here.

    "There is something of a moral panic happening around the idea of “cancel culture”, both on the political right generally and specifically among some members of the left intelligentsia. If you aren’t familiar with it, the basic idea is that “the left” has started to “cancel” (get fired, get kicked off social media, and/or generally gang up on) people who express non-politically correct opinions. Some recent purported examples of someone being “cancelled” include Gina Carano, who up until last week played a popular character on Disney’s “The Mandalorian”, and who was released from that show in the wake of posting comments on Instagram to the effect that hating someone for their political views is similar to the persecution of Jews during the Holocaust (for the record: this is not true). Carano has also posted opinions to the effect that mask wearing does not help stop the spread of COVID, and that there was significant voter fraud in the election (for the record: neither of these claims is true either). In the wake of these posts, the hashtag #FireGinaCarano trended on Instagram, and a few days after that Disney released her from the show.
    Perhaps more seriously, there’s a popular set of ideas spreading rooted in “critical race theory” (CRT). CRT has a bunch of tenets, and a deep dive into it is well beyond the scope I want to address here, but in very broad terms it examines how society relates to ideas of race and power, and in particular, how our current society was built on top of white supremacy and works to perpetuate the power of white people. Which seems fair enough; almost nobody denies that race, real, constructed, or other, has an impact on society and vice versa, and examining that relationship seems like a valuable thing to do. And no one with even the slightest knowledge of American history will seriously dispute the pervasive effect of white supremacy on the shape of American society, at least up through the 1980s.
    But the popular ideas spread in the name of CRT, perhaps most notoriously by Robin DiAngelo in her book "White Fragility" (which I’ll call WF, to distinguish it from the far more nuanced ideas contained in CRT) -- sometimes posit that a) much of what we generally accept as Enlightenment Values, including meritocracy, legal neutrality, and even logical reasoning and the scientific method, are in fact tools of white supremacy; and b) that there is no intellectually honest way to disagree with or even interrogate the tenets of WF. Anyone who questions is a racist. WT therefore acts like a red pill for those who accept its ideas.
    What’s a liberal white Christian scientist to do in the face of these sorts of ideas?
    I’m not sure I have a complete answer, because It Depends(tm). Liberals strive for tolerance of others and their life choices, but contrary to popular opinion on the right that does not imply that we have to tolerate intolerance or be hypocrites. Your right to your opinion stops when your fist meets my face, and all that. There really are some opinions out there that are beyond what any functioning society can accept; in the United States, for instance, these would include that Donald Trump should be President for life, that Hitler had it about right regarding Jews, that slavery was a net good for black people. You have a right to wear a swastika t-shirt and not be arrested -- but that’s all. You can’t wear that t-shirt to your job as a customer service rep in the morning and expect to still be employed at lunchtime.
    On the other hand, any functioning Christian has to make significant allowances for humans being human. We believe in forgiveness, in redemption. We don’t believe in immediate punishment for every bad act. That was Satan’s plan, not God’s, which is why the world is the way it is.
    All that being said, here’s what I’m absolutely certain of: mob violence against other human beings is uniformly bad. As a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (the denomination formerly known as The Mormons), I can attest to this. There’s a reason we are a nation of laws and not of opinions, and for me that reason lies in the graves of the leaders of my church -- and a couple of ancestors -- who were murdered for their religious beliefs. And make no mistake, trending a hashtag to get someone fired because you disagree with what they say is a form of violence. So you will not see me forwarding any incitements to get a private citizen fired or deplatformed for their public statements unless those statements are themselves incitements to hatred or violence. And the problem with social media is exactly this: it actively enables and even encourages just this sort of mob violence.
    I’m also absolutely certain that any system of beliefs that equates skepticism to heresy -- as WF does -- forfeits anything else true it might have to say. This is the proverbial teaspoon of dog poop in the chocolate pie.
    Finally, I’m fairly well convinced that WF is the logical opposite of Nazism, in the sense that both WF and Nazism posit that race is the principal (only?) framework around which society can be understood; the two ideologies then take that conclusion in different directions. But I don’t accept the premise. I don’t wish to live in a world where the fundamental Nazi premise that the nature of society is a struggle between races is the correct one, and as a Christian I *can’t* accept that premise.
    Racism is real, *structural* racism is also real, and liberal thinkers have some valuable things to say about both. White fragility (the concept, not the book), is also real. Of course it is; we're all humans, and we're all fragile. We need to think of ourselves as good people, almost no matter what we think or how we act, and becoming defensive when challenged with our own failures is one of the most natural instincts there is. But to address the reality (and real harms) of racism without causing further damage doesn't require becoming anti-racist, as DiAngelo defines it. But I think it may require becoming anti-fragile. We have to be open to claims of harm from others without becoming intellectually closed ourselves, on either side of the debate.
    So what are we to do with Gina Carano? Well, there really is a struggle for the soul of the United States, and that struggle is important. Its outcome will have real effects on real people. And Carano is -- in my opinion -- on the wrong side of it. But getting her fired for her political views won’t help resolve it. There are better ways, more effective ways, ways that will cause less harm and fewer broken relationships. Loving your enemy is a better way of turning her into your friend than drop-kicking her."
    It doesn't really matter what anyone says. No one changes their mind based on words. The only way you can change someone is by the way they see you live your life.
    I'll meet you at the Rainbow Bridge.

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  14. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cinderelley View Post
    It doesn't really matter what anyone says. No one changes their mind based on words. The only way you can change someone is by the way they see you live your life.
    Amen! All I know is that big tech and the media are lying to us on a daily basis to drive their narrative. Why did people vote the way they did in the last election? For many it was probably based on what they saw on FB or TV. How many people are regretting their vote for Biden? Perhaps many. How many are regretting their vote for Trump? Perhaps few.
    Beth & David

    09/82 Treehouse Villas, 06/86 BVP, 10/95 CBR, 10/99 DI, 08/03 PORS, 10/05 POP, 11/06 AKL, 09/09 POLY, 10/10 Wonder, 05/11 Dream/PORS, 08/13 POLY, 11/13 GF, 04/15 POLY, 11/15 BLT, 11/16 Aulani, 03/17 BLT, 08/18 BLT, 07/19 AKL
    , 06/21 BLT

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    Quote Originally Posted by baldburke View Post
    Amen! All I know is that big tech and the media are lying to us on a daily basis to drive their narrative. Why did people vote the way they did in the last election? For many it was probably based on what they saw on FB or TV. How many people are regretting their vote for Biden? Perhaps many. How many are regretting their vote for Trump? Perhaps few.
    I have to point out the irony of you saying that people voted based on what they see on Social Media and TV, but then assume that a lot of people regret voting out President Trump and voting in President Biden, which information I'm assuming you got from your social media and TV watching habits.

    I think you're correct to assume that most of those that voted for Trump do not regret it. His base is loyal. I do know some conservative voters who were disgusted with the way he handled the attack on the Capitol on Jan. 6th, and as such have said that they wished they had not supported him. On the flip-side, I have yet to meet a single person either in-person or online who voted for Biden and regret it. Of course, due to COVID restrictions, I'm not exactly out talking to a lot of people. Maybe they're just not as outspoken as the Trump supporters. And let's be clear, most people who voted for Biden were not *excited* about Biden. They were just tired of Trump and the daily drama. Even if you don't agree with Biden's politics, he's a return to "normal" politics. I don't think Biden is going to do anything amazing or incredibly damaging as President. He just kind of...is.

    I left Facebook last June because of how nasty it had gotten, and I don't watch Fox News, OAN, or any of the conservative news stations. In fact, I don't watch the news at all. I read the news, but I make a point of reading a spectrum of news sources so that I'm not stuck in an echo-chamber, only getting fed the "news" that I want to believe. My social media at this point is Twitter (only really following athletes and sports reporters so I can get breaking news on my teams) and Instagram. My Instagram feed is full of woodworking, landscape photography, LEGO's, and Disney. No politics there!
    2002 - 2017: 20+ visits (POR, BW, All Stars, VWL, CSR, BLT, BC, SSR, CB, Dolphin, OKW, offsite x4)
    DL - 1996, 2019
    Next up - May 2021 offsite

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  17. #112
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    Okay....baldburke and azcavalier...INTERCOT is the LAST place to go political. Please refrain from going there. Thank you.
    -Bud

    Walt Disney World:
    9/03 - CBR
    1/09 - BWV
    9/05; 2/07; 12/07; 9/08; 9/09; 9/10; 9/11; 12/13; 12/17; 4/18; 10/18 - PC
    5/15 - POR

    Disneyland: 12/15 - Paradise Pier Hotel

    Next up: WDW - Jan. 2022 - PC

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  19. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by PopPhan View Post
    Okay....baldburke and azcavalier...INTERCOT is the LAST place to go political. Please refrain from going there. Thank you.
    Will do.
    2002 - 2017: 20+ visits (POR, BW, All Stars, VWL, CSR, BLT, BC, SSR, CB, Dolphin, OKW, offsite x4)
    DL - 1996, 2019
    Next up - May 2021 offsite

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  21. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by PopPhan View Post
    Okay....baldburke and azcavalier...INTERCOT is the LAST place to go political. Please refrain from going there. Thank you.


    I was waiting for that. I didn't think it would take that long. All in all, I think it was a good civil conversation. And that's all we need more of anyway. Thanks for the note!
    Beth & David

    09/82 Treehouse Villas, 06/86 BVP, 10/95 CBR, 10/99 DI, 08/03 PORS, 10/05 POP, 11/06 AKL, 09/09 POLY, 10/10 Wonder, 05/11 Dream/PORS, 08/13 POLY, 11/13 GF, 04/15 POLY, 11/15 BLT, 11/16 Aulani, 03/17 BLT, 08/18 BLT, 07/19 AKL
    , 06/21 BLT

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  23. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by azcavalier View Post
    I have to point out the irony of you saying that people voted based on what they see on Social Media and TV, but then assume that a lot of people regret voting out President Trump and voting in President Biden, which information I'm assuming you got from your social media and TV watching habits.

    I think you're correct to assume that most of those that voted for Trump do not regret it. His base is loyal. I do know some conservative voters who were disgusted with the way he handled the attack on the Capitol on Jan. 6th, and as such have said that they wished they had not supported him. On the flip-side, I have yet to meet a single person either in-person or online who voted for Biden and regret it. Of course, due to COVID restrictions, I'm not exactly out talking to a lot of people. Maybe they're just not as outspoken as the Trump supporters. And let's be clear, most people who voted for Biden were not *excited* about Biden. They were just tired of Trump and the daily drama. Even if you don't agree with Biden's politics, he's a return to "normal" politics. I don't think Biden is going to do anything amazing or incredibly damaging as President. He just kind of...is.

    I left Facebook last June because of how nasty it had gotten, and I don't watch Fox News, OAN, or any of the conservative news stations. In fact, I don't watch the news at all. I read the news, but I make a point of reading a spectrum of news sources so that I'm not stuck in an echo-chamber, only getting fed the "news" that I want to believe. My social media at this point is Twitter (only really following athletes and sports reporters so I can get breaking news on my teams) and Instagram. My Instagram feed is full of woodworking, landscape photography, LEGO's, and Disney. No politics there!
    Out of all of this, I just want to know - Why LEGOs? lol
    I'll meet you at the Rainbow Bridge.

  24. #116
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    I think it's interesting that we are talking about "Dark Days of DisneyWorld" as far back as 2012 (Original post)

  25. Likes PopPhan liked this post

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