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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Be Nice About Disney View Post
    I completely disagree and feel very sorry for you.

    Not only are you completely wrong, but most of the new additions are actually awesome (yes, awesome).
    I guess I just have higher expectations than you when it comes to theme park attractions.

    Not sure why you feel sorry for me??????
    Rita (aka NJGIRL)

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  3. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by cvzdesign View Post
    if they are going to move more StarWars into the Studios, then maybe it makes more sense to move the Muppets into the Imagination pavillion and update that. If they want to do an imagination ride upgrade, use the technology in the Mystery Manor, and Toy Story Mania vehicles and you can even bring figment and dreamfinder into it as well... Muppets have always been full of imagination... Or maybe even expand it to the world of Jim Henson and all his imaginary worlds...
    I completely endorse this idea!

    If JiI is closed as well as WoL - Epcot will indeed be only a half day park. We're considering not buying the park hopper this year - because why bother hopping with the FP+ and now less stuff to do in Epcot.

    So much wasted space.......
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  4. #43
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    Imagination is popular with the hardcore fans, but Disney isn't particularly interested in pleasing that crowd anyway. From a business point of view, it might actually make sense. For us, Epcot is already just a joke compared to what it once was. Is there another park at WDW that actually has less to do today than it did in 1990?

  5. #44
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    Cool

    I love Epcot, but I have to admit on this trip just past I was starting to question just what the appeal really is. It's actually becoming a bit like Animal Kingdom in that it's a gorgeous park with great atmosphere but man ... it's really devoid of good attractions anymore.

    You can count the must-rides in Epcot on one hand and not need all five fingers.
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  6. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by NJGIRL View Post
    I guess I just have higher expectations than you when it comes to theme park attractions.

    .....would not surprise me if many other frequent WDW visitors (with repeat stays over several years) would feel the same way.

    .....it seems that Disney always wanted to "one-up" the competition with the way the did things ...and ...in a way ...put themselves in the gun-sights to try and be innovative and update attractions, shows, theme park technology ...to stay on the cutting edge.

    .....but ..over my past 10 years of visits ...there's definitely been a stagnation. I'd think ..if asked what the most innovative attraction added to WDW in the past 10 yrs ..I'd say, it's Soarin'. (my 1st WDW visit was in 2004) ...and then I'd have to think real hard to find something else. (mind you...I think Soarin opened the second yr we were there in '05 ...and that's almost 9 yrs ago)

    ....it's almost like their attitude is one which says, "We're Disney, we have a reputation ...you'll come here ....and once you're here inside the gates ...we got you where we want ....thrilled or not".

    ....it's getting like a casino mentality of grabbing a captive audience with glitz & expectations.
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  7. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by JerseyDad View Post
    I'd think ..if asked what the most innovative attraction added to WDW in the past 10 yrs ..I'd say, it's Soarin'. (my 1st WDW visit was in 2004) ...and then I'd have to think real hard to find something else. (mind you...I think Soarin opened the second yr we were there in '05 ...and that's almost 9 yrs ago)
    And see I would say that Soarin' is, while very enjoyable, not at all innovative. It's really just a logical extension of rides like Body Wars and the original Star Tours. In fact, long before Soarin' ever opened or anyone ever heard of it I remember my brother saying how cool it would be if they re-filmed Star Tours for IMAX.

    If I had to pick I'd say Toy Story Mania. While I'm actually bored stiff of that ride and couldn't care less if I ever go on it again, I think it was a next-gen kind of theme park experience I hadn't seen done anywhere else.

    This is clearly a matter of opinion, though, so it's not like my pick is right and yours is wrong or anything.
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  8. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian View Post
    And see I would say that Soarin' is, while very enjoyable, not at all innovative. It's really just a logical extension of rides like Body Wars and the original Star Tours. In fact, long before Soarin' ever opened or anyone ever heard of it I remember my brother saying how cool it would be if they re-filmed Star Tours for IMAX.

    If I had to pick I'd say Toy Story Mania. While I'm actually bored stiff of that ride and couldn't care less if I ever go on it again, I think it was a next-gen kind of theme park experience I hadn't seen done anywhere else.

    This is clearly a matter of opinion, though, so it's not like my pick is right and yours is wrong or anything.
    ....next-gen or not .....I'd have to fall in line behind you as one of the 'bored stiff' crowd. We NEVER went on that until this past August when we (the wife) decided to make it one of our FP+ choices. (why? ...I don't know!! ...we got there for 10 o'clock am ride time and standby was only 30 minutes!!). So ...it was strange that the ONE time we get there with a FP in ALL the times since it's been opened ...no FP was really needed to circumnavigate a 2 hr wait!!

    ...anyhow ...I was far from impressed ...given all the hype I heard over the yrs since it opened. The ride was short in duration ...the 'gun' mechanism was ridiculous ...and the stairs as part of the queue ...had me baffled. A 5 to 10 yr old may like it ...but beyond that ...ehh

    ....and ...the 'jerky' nature of the ride vehicle movement made my wife 'sick' ....(aka ...green ...nauseous ....feeling like she wanted to "drive the porcelain bus" ...)

    ....I fully understand that Soarin' had utilized pre-existing technology (IMAX) as part of it's overall design (enhanced further with other sensory technology ...movement ...scent etc) ....but ...when I walk off of a ride ...smiling like an idiot for the remainder of the day ...that attraction will be near & dear to me.
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  9. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by JerseyDad View Post
    ....I fully understand that Soarin' had utilized pre-existing technology (IMAX) as part of it's overall design (enhanced further with other sensory technology ...movement ...scent etc) ....but ...when I walk off of a ride ...smiling like an idiot for the remainder of the day ...that attraction will be near & dear to me.
    Oh well based on that criteria then yes I'd agree with you, because I do the same thing every time.
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  10. #49
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    Oh all the meat I've heard, JII, would close for a major rehab, which included a newer Lab. Not shutter it's doors for good. They just spent a good portion of time putting lights back in the pyramids, so the close rumor makes no sense. Sounds like a hardcore fanboy just making up rumors to stir discussions.

    Didn't they say at D23 Figment isn't going anywhere, and he's almost turned into EPCOT's unofficial character? My kids (15 months at the time of our visit in August), loved Figment. They wouldn't let us leave the pavilion without buying a stuffed animal. Which made me finally understand why they have all those dang shops when you exit a ride!

    I could care less about meet and greets. So that one doesn't bother me.

    And Wishes....I typically hit the rides when the firework shows are going on. There's no lines!
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  11. #50
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    Why on earth would they just let the pavilion sit there?!? I hate that! EVERYONE LOVES Horizons, they could re-open it there! That would be so awesome!!! If not Horizons they can find something to put there, not just leave it empty or do something stupid with it. It needs to be a ride and they need to be creative and get back to some of the "Disney magic" that we all fell in love with. Also I think they should build another world showcase pavilion like Scotland or Ireland. Something other then a meet and great and if that space isn't big enough then I think they should move the Outpost there and build a new pavilion (WITH A RIDE!!!) where the outpost is now. As much as I love the princesses, characters and Disney movies, that needs to stay in the other parks. This is EPCOT, Experimental Prototype Community of Tomorrow and it needs to STAY that way.

  12. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajwgroomer View Post
    Why on earth would they just let the pavilion sit there?!? I hate that! EVERYONE LOVES Horizons, they could re-open it there! That would be so awesome!!! If not Horizons they can find something to put there, not just leave it empty or do something stupid with it. It needs to be a ride and they need to be creative and get back to some of the "Disney magic" that we all fell in love with. Also I think they should build another world showcase pavilion like Scotland or Ireland. Something other then a meet and great and if that space isn't big enough then I think they should move the Outpost there and build a new pavilion (WITH A RIDE!!!) where the outpost is now. As much as I love the princesses, characters and Disney movies, that needs to stay in the other parks. This is EPCOT, Experimental Prototype Community of Tomorrow and it needs to STAY that way.
    Scotland or Ireland is a part of the "UNITED" Kingdom, but they do need to open a new World Showcase pavilion. Maybe Australia or Brazil.
    "There's enough land here to hold all the ideas and dreams that we could possibly imagine."-Walt Disney

  13. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by mickclub1955 View Post
    Scotland or Ireland is a part of the "UNITED" Kingdom, but they do need to open a new World Showcase pavilion. Maybe Australia or Brazil.
    Ya but to me I always feel like United Kingdom is more of a reflection of England not really UNITED Kingdom. IDK it could just be me that feels like that but they could change it to England and do a Scotland or Ireland or Greece would be really neat too with the Greek mythology.

  14. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by mickclub1955 View Post
    Scotland or Ireland is a part of the "UNITED" Kingdom, but they do need to open a new World Showcase pavilion. Maybe Australia or Brazil.

    ...though there are some decent potential choices for a new WS pavilion ...like India ...or maybe giving Africa a real pavilion .....I am more than a bit resistant of the idea. My reason could always be that I don't like "change". But ...the way I see the WS ...and the various pavilions ....is sort of like a multi-course meal. You get to one country ....become immersed ...soaking in culture, art, food, drink etc ...and then you move on to the next one. BUT ...before you get there ...a brief 'in between course" of greenery, trees ... ....like a sorbet ...is there to cleanse the palate before diving into the next main dish (country) and it's offerings.

    ...I think that potentially having one country after another would be a bit of sensory overload. And ...you don't get the chance to build up any excited expectations about what the next country you visit will be, or be like.

    ...just my 2 cents.
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  15. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian View Post
    And see I would say that Soarin' is, while very enjoyable, not at all innovative.
    I have to disagree here. The "glider" seating, the tri-levels that load at ground level and lift, was designed by Disney Imagineering as a unique and new feature, which is now being copied and adapted by competitors. Simulators have been done, yes, but not in this way. The seating system, and therefore the attraction, fits the very definition of innovative.

    (Merriam-Webster, Innovative: in·no·va·tive adjective \ˈi-nə-ˌvā-tiv\
    : introducing or using new ideas or methods

    : having new ideas about how something can be done)
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  16. #55
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    Soarin', when it opened in California, was innovative. When it opened at Epcot, it was but a mere copy of the original.

  17. #56
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    The ride mechanism may have been innovative, but the ride concept itself was just a step up in terms of film-based simulators. A logical next step, IMO.

    I still maintain that, as far as theme park rides go, it was not significantly innovative. At least not on the whole ... pieces of it yes, but overall it's Body Wars: The Next Generation.
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  18. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian View Post
    The ride mechanism may have been innovative, but the ride concept itself was just a step up in terms of film-based simulators. A logical next step, IMO.

    I still maintain that, as far as theme park rides go, it was not significantly innovative. At least not on the whole ... pieces of it yes, but overall it's Body Wars: The Next Generation.
    I agree that it wasn't a very exciting new concept. But I do love it anyway. But your statement was "not at all innovative" and I had to say, wrong on that. Maybe we can agree on somewhat innovative in execution but not on overall impression. But of course, we could also continue to disagree. Been there. Basically, I was avoiding my work and it was the only thread I had a comment on. Carry on.
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  19. #58
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    Yeah, I love the ride too whether it's innovative or not. It's still a ton of fun.

    I do have to amend my original statement, though, since you're right ... I had forgotten all the patents and everything they were able to get for that ride system. I stand corrected!
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  20. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian View Post
    Yeah, I love the ride too whether it's innovative or not. It's still a ton of fun.

    I do have to amend my original statement, though, since you're right ... I had forgotten all the patents and everything they were able to get for that ride system. I stand corrected!
    How could you forget when the imagineer with his little erector set is the center piece of any behind-the-scenes Disney special?

    I also wanted to add a comment about the appeal of Toy Story Mania, which is 2-fold:
    1) Competition. If you are someone who loves games and has a competitive spirit, this ride is SO MUCH FUN. I never get tired of being blasted in the face with air when I break a gold plate. And I tend to win, so this is definitely a ride that leaves ME smiling every time
    2) Height requirements. This is literally the ONLY RIDE in that whole park that an entire family can ride, other than Great Movie Ride.

    As for the rumors, at this point there really is no doubt they will now build a permanent pavilion for Anna and Elsa. Their line was consistently jumpin'.

    Would hate to see another pavilion closed for good. Future world desperately needs some help. We were lucky enough to be able to experience Wonders of Life one of the last times it was open. It had already been seasonal for a while and was already off the map... it was like stepping back in time to a ghost town. Hardly anyone even knew it was open- a CM tipped us of. It was pretty eerie, but it fun to experience those attractions one last time.
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  21. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by JerseyDad View Post
    .....would not surprise me if many other frequent WDW visitors (with repeat stays over several years) would feel the same way.

    .....it seems that Disney always wanted to "one-up" the competition with the way the did things ...and ...in a way ...put themselves in the gun-sights to try and be innovative and update attractions, shows, theme park technology ...to stay on the cutting edge.

    .....but ..over my past 10 years of visits ...there's definitely been a stagnation. I'd think ..if asked what the most innovative attraction added to WDW in the past 10 yrs ..I'd say, it's Soarin'. (my 1st WDW visit was in 2004) ...and then I'd have to think real hard to find something else. (mind you...I think Soarin opened the second yr we were there in '05 ...and that's almost 9 yrs ago)

    ....it's almost like their attitude is one which says, "We're Disney, we have a reputation ...you'll come here ....and once you're here inside the gates ...we got you where we want ....thrilled or not".

    ....it's getting like a casino mentality of grabbing a captive audience with glitz & expectations.
    Stagnation's a good term for it.

    I'm afraid that's kind of the way I felt the last time I was there. Instead of seeing the wonder, I was more and more seeing the flaws. Rust, needed maintenance, wear - you can get around that by dazzling the audience with innovative and new ideas, but if there hasn't been any significant changes since the LAST time you were there, your eyes will go to the flaws.

    I love the idea of Disney World, but the execution was lacking at the last trip. And Epcot... sigh. Future World needs a reboot badly. The problem is that tech is changing so fast, by the time you get something amazing in forecasting the future, the future's come and gone. I remember one year there were amazing things on the Internet... and now? Hey, more room for meet and greets!

    Maybe they need to focus on space - maybe get help from SpaceX and Blue Origins? I don't know - but it used to be amazing. Last trip it was just... meh.
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