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  1. #21
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    Maybe they should just pull a curtain at 7pm closing off the breezeway between the already completely empty Innoventions West and Starbucks.

    "Move along folks, there is nothing to see or do here. Buses are through the gate and to your left..."

    Poor Future World.
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  4. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by baldburke View Post
    If your perceived value for your dollar isn't meeting your expectations then by all means spend it elsewhere! However there is a difference between constructive criticism and outright disgust as you've shown time and time again.

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  6. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by baldburke View Post
    So rather than bashing Disney, why not start your own Universal-COT where you can laud all the wonders of Universal? Disney is no different than any other corporation, including Comcast - parent of Universal, in that they will do what's best for the shareholder. It is indeed a problem for our modern economy that so much value is place on the shareholder as opposed to the employee or the consumer. Maybe our next president will figure it out, but we are free market system and right now society values the shareholder over the other two components (employee and consumer). If your perceived value for your dollar isn't meeting your expectations then by all means spend it elsewhere! However there is a difference between constructive criticism and outright disgust as you've shown time and time again.
    Perfect example of what I have said in the past about people who cannot accept criticism of Disney... Perfect example... Thank you for proving my point...

    More people should show disgust for the way they are being treated by WDW management.. But some people are just so blind they cannot see...

    Oh and the whole tossing in Universal thing is so silly anymore... If you haven't noticed, we have a Universal section on these boards... And you will find people who find fault with Universal too... There is plenty... But we are talking WDW here, so nice way to try to change the subject..

    Anyway, there are now character meet and greets being cut... And food items being cut as well... The cutting continues!!!!!!
    Son of Jor-El.. Kneel before Zod...

    TRICIA JONES: I heard that you were going to propose to Brandi Svenning at some theme park. When are men going to learn that women want ROMANCE, not Mr. Toad's Wild Ride...

    BRODIE: Hey, now, be fair. EVERYONE wants Mr. Toad's Wild Ride.

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  8. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by DizneyFreak2002 View Post
    Perfect example of what I have said in the past about people who cannot accept criticism of Disney... Perfect example... Thank you for proving my point...

    More people should show disgust for the way they are being treated by WDW management.. But some people are just so blind they cannot see...
    I don't mind criticism of Disney; heck, I dish plenty of it out these days. But see, I always have trouble with these types of "drink the Kool-aid" statements. There's nothing wrong with critical remarks, but when they are made with the insinuation that others are too ignorant or "blind" to see the truth--well, it's a bit like bullying to me. So please, share your information and your opinions, but please respect other posters' right to do the same (without ridicule). No one should be afraid to state their opinions about the state of the parks, good or bad. That's where the discussion part of the boards comes in.
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  9. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by MNNHFLTX View Post
    I don't mind criticism of Disney; heck, I dish plenty of it out these days. But see, I always have trouble with these types of "drink the Kool-aid" statements. There's nothing wrong with critical remarks, but when they are made with the insinuation that others are too ignorant or "blind" to see the truth--well, it's a bit like bullying to me. So please, share your information and your opinions, but please respect other posters' right to do the same (without ridicule). No one should be afraid to state their opinions about the state of the parks, good or bad. That's where the discussion part of the boards comes in.
    Normal people wouldn't and shouldn't mind other peoples' criticism of Disney, or Universal, or Apple, or whatever... But the issue is, not every fan is "normal"... Some take their love of the brand too seriously... as if their life depends on the success of one brand and a failure of the other... And yes, those fans, and consumers in general, are blind... Blinded by their undying love of something... We can call these people closed minded or whatever... They are what they are... And if they cannot tolerate or handle criticism, then they have options.... They can stay out of the treads here on a discussion board, or they can block the member they don't like... Instead they choose to post nonsense, throw threads off topic, make insane rantings about competitors, try to silence those who dare not see their most beloved brand as perfect, and when things are turned on them, they whine... It isn't just here... It is less of an issue here than it is on other sites (thankfully), but it exists... Consumers are blind... We all are... It isn't bullying when someone says another is too blind to see the truth... it is a fact, a true statement... It is like that in politics, religion, finances, and yes theme park fandoms...

    But anyway, back to the topic at hand, no more thread derailments!!!

    These cuts are due to, well, now that the cat is out of the bag elsewhere on the net, Shanghai being a mess And cause Paris is sinking...

    Ready for the cuts??? Operating hours will be further reduced... CMs are being reduced... Overtime reduced or suspended... Things are just starting... WDW is in for a bumpy ride...

    The cuts are draconian... These are cuts that haven't been seen on this level since, probably 2001, and there was a major reason for that (I think it goes without saying what caused it)...

    This just screams mismanagement... Shanghai is a disaster... Financially speaking... Paris is tanking... HARD.... Though recent events in Paris could have something to do with it, but not all of it... Paris was tanking before their terrorist attacks several weeks ago....

    So record quarter earnings mean absolutely NOTHING... Management is so inept, they are now punishing other areas (WDW) cause they mismanaged Shanghai and have no idea how to fix or handle Paris...

    More to come....
    Son of Jor-El.. Kneel before Zod...

    TRICIA JONES: I heard that you were going to propose to Brandi Svenning at some theme park. When are men going to learn that women want ROMANCE, not Mr. Toad's Wild Ride...

    BRODIE: Hey, now, be fair. EVERYONE wants Mr. Toad's Wild Ride.

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  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by MNNHFLTX View Post
    I don't mind criticism of Disney; heck, I dish plenty of it out these days. But see, I always have trouble with these types of "drink the Kool-aid" statements. There's nothing wrong with critical remarks, but when they are made with the insinuation that others are too ignorant or "blind" to see the truth--well, it's a bit like bullying to me. So please, share your information and your opinions, but please respect other posters' right to do the same (without ridicule). No one should be afraid to state their opinions about the state of the parks, good or bad. That's where the discussion part of the boards comes in.
    Thank you for finally addressing this. Agree 110% with the sentiment.

    best,

    .............john

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  13. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by DizneyFreak2002 View Post
    Normal people wouldn't and shouldn't mind other peoples' criticism of Disney, or Universal, or Apple, or whatever... But the issue is, not every fan is "normal"... Some take their love of the brand too seriously... as if their life depends on the success of one brand and a failure of the other... And yes, those fans, and consumers in general, are blind... Blinded by their undying love of something... We can call these people closed minded or whatever... They are what they are... And if they cannot tolerate or handle criticism, then they have options.... They can stay out of the treads here on a discussion board, or they can block the member they don't like... Instead they choose to post nonsense, throw threads off topic, make insane rantings about competitors, try to silence those who dare not see their most beloved brand as perfect, and when things are turned on them, they whine... It isn't just here... It is less of an issue here than it is on other sites (thankfully), but it exists... Consumers are blind... We all are... It isn't bullying when someone says another is too blind to see the truth... it is a fact, a true statement... It is like that in politics, religion, finances, and yes theme park fandoms...

    But anyway, back to the topic at hand, no more thread derailments!!!....
    In my opinion, "normal" people don't have such a negative outlook and negative view of people who don't agree with them. I'm sure you don't agree with me seeing as we have differing views but anyway I'll just agree to disagree here and I'm done with this thread.

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  15. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by j2k View Post
    In my opinion, "normal" people don't have such a negative outlook and negative view of people who don't agree with them. I'm sure you don't agree with me seeing as we have differing views but anyway I'll just agree to disagree here and I'm done with this thread.
    I have been watching this thread silently. To say the least I'm saddened by it. I agree with you j2k and a few others.
    It's one thing to see a need for some changes but I am sorry DizneyFreak, you are not doing what you say you expect others to do. It seems you want people to accept your critique of WDW but suddenly everyone else is wrong if they disagree with you?
    I know it is strongly worded but you are being rude and over the top.
    I don't enjoy coming here much because of so much negativity.
    However I guess you are right, there are others places on the net. I think I may even go ahead and start my own happy place. But it saddens me after nearly 13 years here those of us who choose to see the magical side seem to be told to hush up more or less and not share our opinions if they don't mesh with this movement to hate how Disney has become.
    Peace. Hope you all find a little magic today.
    Terra - Wife, mother, special needs teacher. Disney addict! o

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  17. #29
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    Well this thread quickly turned into a clash of perspectives. This thread by it's mere topic is and will be negative. If you popped in here with the rose colored glasses on, riding a unicorn hopping over rainbows into Disney utopia and posted with a "there's a great big beautiful tomorrow" type statement; you sort of brought it on yourself. lol Why can't we have a thread that is full of contempt and disgust for the direction WDW is headed without someone popping in and trying to hand out lollipops?

    Back to the topic, I find it downright disgraceful that Disney was just bragging about how busy the parks are and record profits, etc. and then turn around and announce they will be closing attractions early and cutting back on labor costs. It just screams corporate greed and money grabbing. I know they are running a business but what about the kids that will not get to experience those attractions because they closed them early. I mean seriously, with that many people paying to get in the park every day at high ticket pricing and they can't pay a couple of people $8 or $10 an hour or whatever low wage they pay, to run the attraction for 2 hours. What would it cost, $50 to $100? In my mind, it would be worth every penny of $100 to potentially bring a little magic to a few more kids each day. How are we as guests supposed to be able to keep up with all these random attraction hours? We already have enough going on just trying to wade through all the FP+, ADR's and other nonsense.

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  19. #30
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    Agree with some here the criticism is ok (and at least in my mind - valid) but the way you take personal anyone who disagrees with you Bobby is disturbing and really needs to stop.

    Now, to everyone else...

    Look, I've been going since 1976 - so I have a lot of perspective. The last time I saw this kind of disregard for the parks was right before there was almost a takeover and split up of the company - which eventually lead to Eisner coming into power. Great book called Storming the Magic Kingdom: Wall Street, The Raiders and the Battle for Disney - by John Taylor ( Amazon has it from 1 cent http://amzn.to/1okIEhE )

    I am hopeful that things like the Star Wars Land and Pandora additions to the park will start to turn the tide but right now, it's hard to see that far out. All I see is increasing prices and declining value - and that makes me, a super long time visitor sad. Especially the direction of my favorite Epcot which is a shell of it's former self. Sad to the point where (as others have said), we're going elsewhere for now. I don't feel like I've left the magic, I feel like the magic has left me. And it's not just me, it's friends, family and co-workers I talk to as well.

    Now, stepping back - I am totally and completely certain that much of what many of us see as decline, the average park goer doesn't see much at all. In fact, when cuts are implemented, I'm sure it's done with a thought to what effects park operations.

    However, I don't want Disney to be that kind of company. I want them to be what they show on their commercials - the one that exceeds expectations and goes the extra mile. That values their guests above profit (ok, that may be a bit too far) - but you get the idea. I want it to be everything that Walt dreamed it could be.

    That 92 members have read this thread to date shows me - people DO care and want things to improve. I could go on much longer - but I'll just say this...

    DISNEY CAN DO BETTER.

    Without vocalizing our collective displeasure, as the thread title says, the cuts will keep on coming - but there is a right and wrong way to do it. Be kind to your fellow member and respect them like you are speaking in person.

    As Stephen R. Covey said in the 7 habits of highly effective people - SEEK FIRST TO UNDERSTAND, THEN to be understood.

    Keep it civil. This is an important topic that needs to be discussed. I don't want to have to shut it down because a few people on both sides can't keep their emotions in check.
    Last edited by John; 02-16-2016 at 12:05 PM.
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  20. #31
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    I just read a thread from 2012 called Are these the "Dark Days" of Disney World? It is an interesting read as to how much it mirrors what is being posted in 2016.
    It concerns me that WDW expects us as guests to plan our vacation so far out when we have no way of knowing if that ride we planned our day around will actually be operational that day,if the weather will cooperate with our plans or if we will even be hungry for that $200 meal that we have committed our vacation dollars to. The whole concept seems to set the bar so high that our expectations can almost never be met.
    "Im a storyteller. Of all the things I've ever done, I'd like to be remembered as a storyteller." Walt Disney

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  22. #32
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    Disney also made changes at The resorts namely Port Orleans riverside and french quarter.

    From another website-Several new "Proprietor" roles have been created, which are an amalgamated department manager role covering more than one traditional line of business, Where this has caused some positions to disappear (such as in Food & Beverage, Recreation and Merchandising) those staff have been redeployed as Duty Managers at different resorts and there have been no enforced job losses - although at least one retiree who oversaw Food & Beverage across multiple Sassagoula area resorts has not been replaced. A few hourly positions have been lost or reorganized too - such as the roving iPad-wielding additional check in staff - but those CMs have been rotated into other roles within the same departments.
    I think this will be happening other places as well
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  23. #33
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    It is possible (and probably good) to love something and be critical of it at the same time. I feel that way about Disney Parks very often. I absolutely LOVE Disneyland. Love everything about it. However, I am also getting increasingly irritated with the crowding situation there and Disney's apparent lack of concern for how it affects the guest experience. They keep trying to pack more and more people in, offering completely unnecessary ticket specials to lure in more and more locals (who they block out on the APs on the weekends because of crowds). Just when the holiday crowds have died down, they do something to boost attendance even more. This drives me crazy. This feels like straight up greed. But, that doesn't mean I don't still enjoy going, or I don't have a great time every visit with my family. It's a love/hate thing.

    Here, at Epcot, in particular, we have the opposite situation. There is so little to do, but rather than entice people to come with new things (which at least Disneyland is doing) they are cutting further back on the things offered, without realizing that all those people in the park now have even LESS options. It's completely backwards. If a ride isn't popular, or people aren't spending money in your shops and you're losing money on running those things, maybe think about how to make them BETTER? Don't just shut the doors and give up. That's where I see the biggest issue here. That said, I still LOVE Epcot. And there is nothing wrong with feeling both ways.

    For the time being, we are sticking with Disneyland. Luckily we live a stone's throw away and so can time our visits to avoid huge crowd times. I haven't felt like returning to WDW for quite some time. And that is a new feeling for me. I'm willing to give them some time to work on the current projects and am hopeful that Epcot is next in line to receive some love. When they set out to completely overhaul a park, they have the ability to do amazing things. Here's hoping.
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  25. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by DizneyFreak2002 View Post
    For a company that just made more money last quarter than ever before, you'd never know it with WDW... With the way cuts are being made left and right in WDW, you'd think WDW was going out of business... But when money is all that matters, and guest satisfaction means nothing anymore, do you really expect anything else?
    The only problem I have with this statement, is that companies usually make decisions like these based on forecast, not what happened in the past. Quite frankly, just based on the complaints I have seen on this discussion board in the last few weeks, it would not surprise me if Disney is forecasting a horrible year for the Parks and Resorts division.
    "Welcome, Foolish Mortals..."

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    I keep waiting for Disney to do something to get me back. And every time, it seems they just push me further and further out. We're doing two cruises this year, been enjoying them so much. I've been going for years like many others and agree, it's probably easier to spot the cuts than maybe first time visitors, however I know quite a few people that have recently come back from trips of a lifetime and have no desire to go back; wasn't magical (or as magical as they expected). So I don't think it's just the vets that are seeing the wrong...

    And while I don't have an MBA, I just don't get the raise prices upon a weak forecast . You can call it cuts, restructuring, etc. It's a price increase. Less for more... We'll be looking at a ticket increase soon enough, and shorter hours are a disguise for a ticket price increase. So we're looking at at least two ticket increases for 2016, probably more...

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    If you are right, Speedy, that these cuts might be based on forecasts, then Disney will have brought it on themselves. Like John, my history with Walt Disney World goes back to the mid 70's. The Magic Kingdom and EPCOT Center (beginning in 1982) were the best of the best and I would visit at least once per year and often twice to be lost in the magic. But even then, I can't recall the Odyssey Restaurant being open much after 1983 or so.

    My wife and I made our last visit in 2004 when our daughter was 10. By then, Future World was a shell of itself, we really had no interest in the Studios and, at the time, Animal Kingdom was, at best, a half-day park. And everything was at premium price. We decided as a family that we wanted our memories of Disney to be of when it was truly a magical place. And so, we put our money elsewhere and we have not regretted it.

    I've been coming to these boards since 2002, all the while wishing that I would hear good news that might make me want to return. I've been disappointed because I feel strongly that the cutbacks over the years have hurt the show more than anything. All the while, the dreamers have given way to the suits who not only have no clue, but are only invested as far as their golden parachutes and stock options will take them.

    One day I hope to return. But it will not be to a place where vacation is more of a job and a hassle than relaxation and fun.
    Last edited by Wayne; 02-16-2016 at 02:24 PM. Reason: grammar and to correct a date
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    Quote Originally Posted by BrerGnat View Post
    The only one on that list that surprises me is the Mouse Gear cut. The rest are likely because NO ONE is going on those attractions anyway. Might as well shut them down while they figure out what the heck they are going to do to improve Epcot.
    .....well ....I'd hate to think that I'm the only person in the Universe that loves ...and goes on "Living With The Land". I don't see it as needing "improvement" ....only a tweak here and there. The educational aspects of Disney fascinate the heck out of me.
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  31. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by John View Post
    Agree with some here the criticism is ok (and at least in my mind - valid) but the way you take personal anyone who disagrees with you Bobby is disturbing and really needs to stop.

    Now, to everyone else...

    Look, I've been going since 1976 - so I have a lot of perspective. The last time I saw this kind of disregard for the parks was right before there was almost a takeover and split up of the company - which eventually lead to Eisner coming into power. Great book called Storming the Magic Kingdom: Wall Street, The Raiders and the Battle for Disney - by John Taylor ( Amazon has it from 1 cent http://amzn.to/1okIEhE )

    I am hopeful that things like the Star Wars Land and Pandora additions to the park will start to turn the tide but right now, it's hard to see that far out. All I see is increasing prices and declining value - and that makes me, a super long time visitor sad. Especially the direction of my favorite Epcot which is a shell of it's former self. Sad to the point where (as others have said), we're going elsewhere for now. I don't feel like I've left the magic, I feel like the magic has left me. And it's not just me, it's friends, family and co-workers I talk to as well.

    Now, stepping back - I am totally and completely certain that much of what many of us see as decline, the average park goer doesn't see much at all. In fact, when cuts are implemented, I'm sure it's done with a thought to what effects park operations.

    However, I don't want Disney to be that kind of company. I want them to be what they show on their commercials - the one that exceeds expectations and goes the extra mile. That values their guests above profit (ok, that may be a bit too far) - but you get the idea. I want it to be everything that Walt dreamed it could be.

    That 92 members have read this thread to date shows me - people DO care and want things to improve. I could go on much longer - but I'll just say this...

    DISNEY CAN DO BETTER.

    Without vocalizing our collective displeasure, as the thread title says, the cuts will keep on coming - but there is a right and wrong way to do it. Be kind to your fellow member and respect them like you are speaking in person.

    As Stephen R. Covey said in the 7 habits of highly effective people - SEEK FIRST TO UNDERSTAND, THEN to be understood.

    Keep it civil. This is an important topic that needs to be discussed. I don't want to have to shut it down because a few people on both sides can't keep their emotions in check.
    Thank you John
    I don't mind disagreeing [though I DO see quite a few points], but it's in the presentation Being nice to our fellow members as you said.

    I really hope SW Land helps DS. I've never been a fan myself of DS, so I'm hoping I'll find a new love for it.
    I have come to adore AK, only after the birth of my sons and seeing it through their eyes over the years. I think the new Rivers of Light and Pandora should be a wonderful attraction to enhance a park already packed with so much to learn and do IMHO
    Terra - Wife, mother, special needs teacher. Disney addict! o

    Advocate for my 2 sons. David: Auto-immune disorder. Praying for remission!ASD/SPD & Aaron: ADHD/Anxiety/ASD. Life makes us stronger!

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    Another positive vote here for "Living with the Land".

    best,

    ...............john

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    Quote Originally Posted by JerseyDad View Post
    .....well ....I'd hate to think that I'm the only person in the Universe that loves ...and goes on "Living With The Land". I don't see it as needing "improvement" ....only a tweak here and there. The educational aspects of Disney fascinate the heck out of me.
    I like the Land too - even have taken the behind the seeds tour. That said, even that ride could use some TLC. Disappointed they took the human element out of it but that aside, the films in the beginning are from the 1980's and really need updating badly. How hard would that be to do? Show us what's going on in the 2016 and beyond agriculture wise. Surely there has been advancements since the time when Duran Duran ruled the charts! Why not also incorporate some new growing methods as well during the ride?

    Finally, the fish tanks that have a single shrimp in them or a single eel where they used to be filled are kind of bad show in my opinion. Looking at huge Plexiglas tubes with one thing in them just isn't entertaining.

    Overall, still like the ride, but as with other things in Epcot, it really could use some love.
    John - aka. The Master Control Program
    Owner, Chairman & Chief Imagination Officer - INTERCOT

  35. Thanks MNNHFLTX thanked for this post
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