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07-05-2009, 08:02 PM
#101
Originally Posted by Goof42
wait, i'm speculating again...oh well can't win.
I think where it's thoughtful - looking at the events, seeing how the trains operate and searching for a reason makes sense. It's totally normal for all of us to wonder how something so out of the ordinary can possibly happen and to be curious to look for a cause.
To immediately blame the operator or suggest that they were not paying attention because they were texting or goofing off serves no useful purpose and is out of line.
Is operator error a possibility - sure... but lets stay away from assigning blame and try to look at this from a logical and methodical standpoint - and maintain respect for the poor driver who perished in this tragic accident.
Thanks.
Last edited by John; 07-05-2009 at 08:11 PM.
John - aka. The Master Control Program
Owner, Chairman & Chief Imagination Officer - INTERCOT
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07-05-2009, 08:14 PM
#102
Monorail
I heard pink was backing up to put the train away for the night had to switch onto the magic kingdom express line where he can then switch into the shop unfortunately he did not realize the track was not switched by control and may not of checked the rear view mirrors to make sure he was switching, and backed up at 15 mph onto the same epcot track where monorail purple was approaching and ran right into monorail purple. There was a MAPO ovride in use.
My thoughts and prayers to all the families.
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07-05-2009, 08:23 PM
#103
How long does it take the Monorail to stop if a driver were to "slam on the brakes"?
Off Site-- All Star Movies-- Pop Century-- Coronado Springs-- Port Orleans French Quarter
Walt Disney-"Disneyland is a work of love. We didn't go into Disneyland just with the idea of making money."
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07-05-2009, 08:29 PM
#104
Originally Posted by caryrae
How long does it take the Monorail to stop if a driver were to "slam on the brakes"?
Like anything else, it depends on the speed they're traveling.
You can only safely brake a vehicle to a certain degree and then the braking itself becomes a safety hazard due to the g forces from the rapid deceleration (which is really what an accident is).
At very low speeds, I've been on board when they do emergency brake tests and they come to a full stop in just a few feet. But that's traveling at maybe 10mph tops. I'd guess if they were full out ... in the 45mph range as they are on the high speed portion of the Epcot line ... it would take a good bit of space to stop a train with that much mass.
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07-05-2009, 08:34 PM
#105
My thoughts go out to this Cast Member's family. And also all the kids that are in the College program with him. This will be a big shock for them and all the other Cast Members
Through investigation they'll figure out what went wrong.
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07-05-2009, 08:34 PM
#106
It seems everyone has heard something somewhere or other. Can We all keep the speculation of the what ifs to a minimum.
I mean I heard Elvis was still alive. But that does not mean that I believe it because there is no conclusive proof of the statement.
So.............Until an investigation report states facts, reasonable possibilities, and undeniable proof of the facts, I will not engage in any sort of discussion with speculation about what happened.
I will comment on a few things thus far that I have observed from the pictures, video and posts here.
First, I see a terrible accident that claimed the life of a human being. Who was at fault is furthest from my mind.
Second I saw people moving into action during an accident situation trying to help. The cast member was most likely in shock and began acting to minimize dangers to those around the site.
Third, I back John Y in his posting of the link. While it is horrible, and disturbing, many people have to grow a bit of a thicker skin. Life is unpleasant, that is why all of us Love Disney, because it gets us away from real life for a short while. Flame me if ya want, do it in PM though, the forums are no place for a flame war.
Fourth, I am glad to that so many people feel sympathy for those involved and for the one who lost his life. Above all, we must all remember a life was lost, and that there are means of trying to prevent loss of life, but they sadly do not always work.
First trip August 1975
Honeymoon trip Sept-Oct 2010
ºoº It all started with a Mouse.
Your trip is what you want it to be and it will turn out just how you want it.
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07-05-2009, 08:49 PM
#107
My heart goes out to the family and friends of the CM who passed away and to the people who witnessed this terrible tragedy. What an awful thing to experience!
I think the CM who told the person to stop video taping did exactly the right thing. And I don't think it had anything to do with him remembering a policy regrading PR. I think this guy saw a video camera and thought, "Should this be on video to be shown on news networks and youtube?" Out of respect to the family of the victim, the answer is no. God forbid the CM hadn't told the person to turn off the video camera and he had gotten shots of the cast member. How awful would that have been for an already grieving family!
Kristin
Momma to two sweet boys: Myers and Jacob
36 trips and counting!
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07-05-2009, 08:50 PM
#108
Ok, certainly my post wasn't construed as flaming--was it? I was merely trying to provide insight and thought there was an interesting correlation.
In the case it was interpreted as a flame--I never did state whether I thought it was right OR wrong to post the link on icot, nor would I ever want to make that decision, that's why you're running the show here, John!
25 magical trips and counting...
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*these postings are my own and do not reflect Disney's postions/opinions*
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07-05-2009, 09:25 PM
#109
Originally Posted by DisneyAggies
Ok, certainly my post wasn't construed as flaming--was it? I was merely trying to provide insight and thought there was an interesting correlation.
In the case it was interpreted as a flame--I never did state whether I thought it was right OR wrong to post the link on icot, nor would I ever want to make that decision, that's why you're running the show here, John!
Don't worry - you are fine...
John - aka. The Master Control Program
Owner, Chairman & Chief Imagination Officer - INTERCOT
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07-05-2009, 09:37 PM
#110
For what it's worth, NBC reported tonight that Purple was finishing it's final run of the night.
Dave aka: Altair
"Even though they're graceful when swimmin', it's hard to believe sailors thought they were women" - Manatee area, the Living Seas
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07-05-2009, 09:37 PM
#111
My wife just found the driver on Facebook. Not sure if this is OK to post the link but here is a link to a Facebook page dedicated to the driver (Austin) where you can leave a message.
http://www.facebook.com/s.php?q=Aust...d=100203833438
Pretty neat idea, one of the people (must be a Cast Member) said,
I think that every one that is a castmember at Walt Diney world should donate 1$ each for the family there is over 62,ooo of us and if every one donates that would help for the coast of every thing i dont know who to talk to about this but i think its a great idea i would deff give money tord this!!!!!!
I'm sure Disney would help out too.
Off Site-- All Star Movies-- Pop Century-- Coronado Springs-- Port Orleans French Quarter
Walt Disney-"Disneyland is a work of love. We didn't go into Disneyland just with the idea of making money."
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07-05-2009, 09:44 PM
#112
This is such an incredibly tragic bit of news and my heart goes out to the cast member's family and friends.
I think there are a lot of interesting and worthwhile topics to discuss/argue/examine/etc. from this event including the CM stopping the cameraman, the video being posted, the potential neglegence of one (or both) of the drivers, the system, etc.
(John: Perhaps consider splitting the thread at some point in the future? 1 for condolences, 1 for news, and 1 for speculation?)
Now, that having been said, the Orlando Sentinel is now quoting a witness who says "you could tell from the sound it was going faster than normal, then came the impact which sounded just like a terrible automobile accident." Obviously you can't go 100% on what this witness says but this might seem to debunk the theory that Pink backed into Purple.
HOWEVER, the backing up idea might make sense in that, perhaps, if Purple and Pink (1 going forward, 1 back) both tripped their amber MAPO at the same time, neither would have had time (or, even, the inclination) to immediately slow down.
Lastly, and like many have said, it doesn't do a whole lot of good to speculate and I also hate to be the first person to say this since it's entirely possible there was no human error involved. But, it was 2am on one of the busiest holiday weekends of the year. I know CM's who work 50, 60, or more hours a week during busy holidays. How long was this kid driving the train that day? Fatigue could have very easily played a role. I know it's a huge part of CM's lives (not to mention salaries) but if this proves to be the case Disney is going to have to seriously consider cutting the amount of overtime they allow CM's to work.
Just my two cents and like others have said, the most important thing now is to pray for the families while the experts sort out the details.
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07-05-2009, 09:49 PM
#113
What a horrible thing to happen on a holiday (or really ever).
Your heart sure goes out to this young man and his family.
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07-05-2009, 10:00 PM
#114
My sympathy and condolences to the family, friends and co-workers of Austin during this difficult time.
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07-05-2009, 10:01 PM
#115
We, as a monorail family, are grieving. I think it's safe to say that the cast members are in as much shock (or greater) than the guests. The thoughts and prayers are welcomed and appreciated.
You are all well-informed. As always, this site is a reliable resource for WDW information. Even as a monorail cast member, I have little to add to the discussion. It will likely be some time (days/weeks) before a cause is understood and articulated to the public.
In response to recurring questions, I offer the following:
1) Yes, the system has a seemingly redundant anti-collision system (referred to as the "MAPO") system.
2) No, that system has never failed before, and is tested twice a day on every train, in forward and reverse (not to mention the times it's been tested in actual operation).
3) As has been mentioned, these trains are also equipped with a "deadman's switch." Driver health issues, falling asleep, text messaging, etc. are highly unlikely to have caused this accident.
As John says, speculation is only natural. I've run over a million scenarios in my head since I first heard about this terrible incident, and none seems plausible. Therefore, as natural as it is to speculate, I am quite sure that the actual cause(s) is something none of us can imagine. As was mentioned, catastrophic accidents are often caused by error chains. This incident is likely one of those situations. I cannot piece together a likely scenario in my head (save the grisly thought that some have mentioned about intentionality). Of course the safety planners involved in this system could not forsee this chain of events either, or else it would have been prevented from happening.
Many of you have mentioned memorable rides with the driver in the front of the monorail. It's also been mentioned that he/she often talked with pride about the system's safety record and it's advanced safety systems. I have always spoken proudly as well. Truly, we all believed something like this to be impossible. We are all in utter shock.
CaptainDisney, aka Kevin
Former CP, Fall 2007
Seasonal Cast Member: Monorail Pilot
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07-05-2009, 10:06 PM
#116
My thoughts and prayers go out to the driver's family. I can't imagine the loss that his parents are feeling tonight.
Amanda
Mom of Jay and Sam
'Please stand clear of the doors. Por favor
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07-05-2009, 10:19 PM
#117
Very Very sad for everyone involved. The young man who died, his family and all the CM's of Disney. Those who witnessed it. Sad day for sure!
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07-05-2009, 10:40 PM
#118
My prayers go out to the CM's family.
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07-05-2009, 10:54 PM
#119
Originally Posted by garthbarth1
Ok, so a quick question as I am a little confused on what exactly happened? The driver im the front of the pink monorail crashed into the driver in the back of the purple monorail? Or were there two drivers in the pink one and not any in the purple? I thought there was only one driver, and that it is driven from the front, not from the back? Sorry for the confusion... Prayers to the family in this hard time.
All trains have two controls. One in the forward and one in the stern. They don't back up the trains from the front...
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07-05-2009, 11:13 PM
#120
This is horrible. My prayers go out to the family and friends.
I love riding the monorail and I was there in May and probably rode the monorail about 15-20 times. We sat up front once and talked to a younger driver, I wondered if it was the same guy
I was wondering if they will take the crashed trains off until they are fixed or if they shut down the monorail and fix these on the monorail??
My wife told me she won't ride anymore. I told her it will be more safe than ever now because of this. Sad to say but its true. Just like they say the safest time to fly is after a plane crash.
Will you ride the monorail or will you stay away from it now?
I do see changes coming for it such as someone mentioned no more cockpit rides.
Last edited by Ian; 07-06-2009 at 07:35 AM.
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