cheating in new england

[Scar]

From today's Star-Ledger:

Security chief catches the spy on the sideline

Thursday, September 13, 2007

BY DAVE HUTCHINSON AND RICK HEPP

Star-Ledger Staff

HEMPSTEAD, N.Y. -- Eagle-eyed former FBI agent Steve Yarnell -- who has been with the Jets for 11 seasons, the past four as the team's director of security -- sniffed out the Patriots' spy attempts on Sunday.

Yarnell, who was initially hired by Bill Parcells and has also worked with the Giants and Patriots, spotted New England video assistant Matt Estrella taking illegal video of the Jets coaches sending in defensive signals during last Sunday's game and turned him in to NFL security.

"Steve is very good at what he does," said a person close to the investigation who did not want to be identified because of the sensitive nature of the situation. "He watches everything. He can be a pain in the butt, but you want him in a foxhole with you."

Yarnell, who also serves as a body guard for Jets coach Eric Mangini during games, spotted Estrella and confronted him on the field.

Pat Aramini, vice president of security at the Meadowlands Complex, said Yarnell viewed a portion of the tape and saw it was of a Jets defensive coach.

Eventually, security from the NFL, Jets and Patriots, as well as state troopers in the Sports Complex unit, ended up in Aramini's office at Giants Stadium, where they spent "at least an hour" trying to determine who would get the video camera and tape, Aramini said. At one point, there was a discussion of copying the tape and giving the copy to the Jets, but the team balked at the idea.

"The NFL wanted to take possession of the tape and the Patriots said no," Aramini said. "It went back and forth until we got a call from the league that any footage taken on the field belongs to the NFL."

The Patriots did not like the answer, Aramini said, and the team's security representative said New England wasn't going to give up the tape.

"I said, 'I'm in possession of it now,'" Aramini said. "It belongs to the NFL by rights. If the Patriots have any problem they can take it up with the league on Monday. The NFL took the tape and the video camera."

He said everyone in the room was a "gentleman," with the Patriots security representative asking the others "not to kill the messenger."

[Ian]

You know this is tough for me ... I've always been a big admirer of the Patriots. Even though they beat the Eagles in the Super Bowl, I can't help but appreciate the tradition of success they've built up their and Robert Kraft's obvious committment to winning.

But boy ... what an ARROGANT franchise! Were they like this before they won or is it just the weight of those three rings that's gone to Belichek's head? Refusing to turn the tape over to the NFL even after they've been instructed to do so??? Yikes ... who's this guy think he is??

I also just read a story that claims that, at Foxboro, coaches headsets have a habit of mysteriously "breaking" during games. Seems like the Pats were trying to force opposing coaches to communicate using methods they could easily intercept.

[battlefield2freak]

You know this is tough for me ... I've always been a big admirer of the Patriots. Even though they beat the Eagles in the Super Bowl, I can't help but appreciate the tradition of success they've built up their and Robert Kraft's obvious committment to winning.

But boy ... what an ARROGANT franchise! Were they like this before they won or is it just the weight of those three rings that's gone to Belichek's head? Refusing to turn the tape over to the NFL even after they've been instructed to do so??? Yikes ... who's this guy think he is??

I also just read a story that claims that, at Foxboro, coaches headsets have a habit of mysteriously "breaking" during games. Seems like the Pats were trying to force opposing coaches to communicate using methods they could easily intercept.

i do think thats a stupid decision to not hand the tape over to the nfl. if i read the story right it siad all security including those from NFL, pats, jets and state troopers where the only ones in the office deciding what to do with the tape so i dont think belichek had any say in what happens to the tape.

[PirateLover]

This certainly leaves a bad taste in my mouth. The thing is, now that we know they have cheated once for sure and have been accused of as much in other instances, it puts a lot of questions in your mind. I've never been a Pats hater. But yes I do remember the second half of the Eagles game, how the Pats defense knew where Westbrook was going before he got there, how our D that was so successful in the first half was rendered practically incompetant in the second. At the time we chalked it up to Bellichek's genius in knowing what changes to make during half time. But what if those changes were aided by the fact that they knew exactly what was coming?

In the past few days I've often heard the phrase "If you ain't cheatin, you ain't tryin." That may be true but it still doesn't make it right. There is also a major difference between decoding signals with the naked eye- that is almost an artform and not everyone can do it- and sitting there with a video camera zooming in on every signal. As mentioned, I can't believe they cheated against the Jets. They didn't need to. As Ian said I see this as straight up arrogance.

[JPL]

I belive as I stated earlier the win should be taken away from the Patriots and I am far from a Patriot Hater and much closer to a Jet Hater if anything. This is a case where the punishment needs to fit the crime. Will we ever know if the Patriots would have won the game without cheating? I know most people think they could have won without cheating but the fact of the matter is they were caught redhanded here. Let's look at a possible scenario since some people brought up the playoffs. Let's say the Jets miss the Playoffs by 1 game and the Patriots make it in by that 1 game. It sure looks like a much bigger offense then. With the recent problems in all of Pro Sports lately I think the NFL could set a good example here by making the Patriots Forfeit the game and giving the win to the Jets. It would definately set a good precedent so something like this doesn't happen again in the future. As far as the other sanctions such as fines, taking away draft picks and suspension are concerned, I would like to know how this solves the problem. Fines big deal this doesn't really hurt the franchise. Loss of Draft picks when you have the record of the Patriots these aren't really top high quality team changing picks. When you factor in free agencies and players looking for a team that has a chance of winning it all this becomes a joke. Suspension who do you suspend? IMHO taking away the win is the only fair solution that makes sense.

[Epc0tphr34k]

But boy ... what an ARROGANT franchise! Were they like this before they won or is it just the weight of those three rings that's gone to Belichek's head? Refusing to turn the tape over to the NFL even after they've been instructed to do so??? Yikes ... who's this guy think he is??

coming from the area i can assure you both the franchise and there fans are that arrogant. bob kraft is a tool of george steinbrenner proportions.

the thing that gets me is the reason they were loved by the nation in the first place was during that first superbowl after sept 11 when they played the rams they were the lovable losers. they were the everyman. and they seem to have abandoned that persona since winning...now they rather be the bully

[battlefield2freak]

coming from the area i can assure you both the franchise and there fans are that arrogant. bob kraft is a tool of george steinbrenner proportions.

the thing that gets me is the reason they were loved by the nation in the first place was during that first superbowl after sept 11 when they played the rams they were the lovable losers. they were the everyman. and they seem to have abandoned that persona since winning...now they rather be the bully

you cant even say the fans are arrogant. if your so assured give some examples because for one i am a patriots fan and happy to be one and when im watching any other football game im not rude and want them to lose except the cardinals ( college, in state rivalry ). you crossed the line with that statement because you dont know every single patriots fan so how would you know if all the fans arrogant?

could care less right now about forfeiting hte gmae to the jets since we play them twice and we can beat them without cheating. and in the playoffs any teams offense or defense can change rather quickly beacuse your motivated to make it to the superbowl so you got to play tougher. now im not denying the eagles game int he playoffs because i didnt get a chance to watch it so i cant comment on that. and another thing tell me whose the bully? the patriots havent done any bullying at all so please tell me how they are bullies. we havent had near as many players make headlines bc of broken rules and league policies this year as many teams this year. so far just 2 tha i remember, the video assistant and harrison when compared to others thats significantly low.

[PirateLover]

The penalty has been revealed. Belichik has been fined $500,000; team fined $250,000; depending on whether or not the make the playoffs determines how many picks they lose and in what round.

[JPL]

$750,000 is a joke the NFL should be ashamed of themselves It looks like another professional sports league is heading on the downhill slide.

[Epc0tphr34k]

$750,000 is a joke the NFL should be ashamed of themselves It looks like another professional sports league is heading on the downhill slide.

seconded, this is nuts

its a slap on the wrist. probably won't even make them think twice about doing it again

[Epc0tphr34k]

you cant even say the fans are arrogant. if your so assured give some examples because for one i am a patriots fan and happy to be one and when im watching any other football game im not rude and want them to lose except the cardinals ( college, in state rivalry ).

fairly certain i made a global assessment and did not single out you or anyone else here. yes i have friends who are patsies fans and have been for as long as i have known them, and wouldn't necessarily include them in my assessment. I am also pretty sure that living here in connecticut, i see a much larger cross section of not only the fanbase but the press coverage than you would in say kentucky. If you want to come up here for a couple monthes where the fans go on about how they are gods gift to football and the news makes insinuations that the rest of the teams needn't bother playing because noone can stop their juggernaut. i would say that both qualifies for arrogance and bullying but i could be wrong. new england sports fans as a rule are fair weather fans that come out of the woodwork when their teams do well. this includes all new england sports not just football. there are more patriots and red sox fans professing their superiority in the last 5-6 years that at any point in my 30 yr lifetime. everyone here were giants fans when i was growing up coincidentally the giants happened to be very good at that time, then the cowboys took over and you tripped over cowboy fans.

[PirateLover]

I also think the penalty wasn't enough. I don't know that it would've been fair to make them forfeit the game just because there is no precedent for it... but I do think that the coach should've been suspended for at least one game.

[SBETigg]

Tiki Barber was just on the Today show talking about it. He felt it was a just punishment. He said that all teams do it and the Patriots got caught, probably due to the bad blood between coaches. He hopes this puts an end to it for all teams. He also thinks it had no effect on the outcome of the Jets game but was information that could help in future games. So, before judging the Patriots too harshly, you may want to ask yourself what actions you would want taken if your team was the one that was caught. If the answer is the same (and it could be, cheating is bad), then okay.

And Chris, to say "Patriots fans are arrogant" is certainly lumping all of them together, including your friends. It is insulting people and I think it's a TOS violation. I live in New England and I have lived in Michigan amongst Lions fans and fans are fans. Nothing wrong with team pride. We're no different than other fans. I don't appreciate the insults.

[Jeff]

OK Guys!
No more personal attacks.
Discuss the cheating / not the fans, etc...
If we can't play nice a ref is going to step in and stop the game!

[Donald A]

The punishment should fit the crime.

Bill Belichik should be made to come back and coach the Cleveland Browns for the 2007 season! That would be a true punishment!

[Jeff G]

The penalty does seem a little weak. $250,000 to a rich NFL owner is a drop in the bucket while $500,000 to a coach is a little more sever (if the team doesn't end up paying it). When you think of how much extra revenue a Super Bowl brings to an organization and value it adds to the organization there may be teams that may feel this is still a risk worth taking with just the fine alone. In addition to the money though there is the loss of a 1st round draft pick if they make the play-offs or a 2nd & 3rd if they don't. That is a pretty stiff penalty. Even a talented team like the NE needs those early draft picks to replace players. Could the penalty have been stiffer, yes. I personally thought the win should be taken away. Let's hope that coupling the money, the draft pick and the embarrassment of being caught cheating will curb future situations like this.

I also saw bits of the Tiki interview and he states other teams are doing this. It may be true but the only team that was caught was NE and the only team I've heard accused of this in the past was also NE. Why would teams accuse NE of doing this or try to catch NE if they are also doing this? It doesn't add up.

[SBETigg]

I also saw bits of the Tiki interview and he states other teams are doing this. It may be true but the only team that was caught was NE and the only team I've heard accused of this in the past was also NE. Why would teams accuse NE of doing this or try to catch NE if they are also doing this? It doesn't add up.

Of course it adds up. Look at the resentment for the Patriots in this thread alone. Resentment drives people to do a lot of things, like make sure the other team is caught looking bad. No one's going to want to start pointing fingers all over the place and making the whole NFL look bad. It's enough to point the finger at the loathed Patriots(easy target, since they were warned before), embarrass them, give people reason to doubt their skill, and back off with a weak fine.

If it wasn't widespread, don't you think the punishment would have been stiffer and the whole thing would have been more shocking? ESPN and sports reporters are talking about it, yes, but it's barely the huge story it should be if it was the big bad Patriots alone breaking all the rules.

But that everyone else is doing it too is by no means an excuse and it is shameful and embarrassing, and disappointing for the fans.

[Ian]

Hey folks, just to echo what Jeff said, let's keep the personal stuff down to a dull roar please?

The Locker Room mods normally allow a little more leeway in this forum because of the subject matter, but even this board has limits.

Let's try and be very respectful of one another's viewpoints, k?

[Jeff G]

Of course it adds up. Look at the resentment for the Patriots in this thread alone. Resentment drives people to do a lot of things, like make sure the other team is caught looking bad. No one's going to want to start pointing fingers all over the place and making the whole NFL look bad. It's enough to point the finger at the loathed Patriots, embarrass them, give people reason to doubt their skill, and back off with a weak fine.

If it wasn't widespread, don't you think the punishment would have been stiffer and the whole thing would have been more shocking? ESPN and sports reporters are talking about it, yes, but it's barely the huge story it should be if it was the big bad Patriots alone breaking all the rules.

But that everyone else is doing it too is by no means an excuse and it is shameful and embarrassing, and disappointing for the fans.

I understand what your saying and maybe this is more widespread than I want to believe. When I said it didn't add up here is my logic. After the Packers played NE last year Ted Thompson stated to the league that he felt that NE was using a video camera to steal their defensive signals. If the Packers were engaging in the same practice I have a hard time believing they would call out the Pat's even if they loath each other. If I'm at work and I know a co-worker is getting ahead of me by cheating the system I would consider turning them in. If I'm engaging in the same exact cheating practice would I turn them in? I doubt most would.That is my logic. Why would other teams complain if they are using the same tactic?

I'm a fan of the Patriot's and like how they built the team without the flash. Plus Tom Brady is one of my favorite QB's of all time. My comments weren't meant to be an attcak at the Patriots, just my opinion.

[PirateLover]

I also harbor no resentment towards the Patriots, even though they beat us in the super bowl. I would have the same opinion if it was any other team, yes, including the Eagles. I have heard talk of this from people who don't even follow sports and on regular news programs, so I disagree that it isn't a big deal. I also follow Jeff G's logic. If every team was using this technique, then the other teams wouldn't be commenting on it. They would just sweep it under the rug. I think that all teams try to figure out signals, but I don't think all teams have an employee on the sidelines taping hand signals. These allegations have been made multiple times against the Patriots and no other team that we know of at this time.

I also just heard that the Patriots actually have two first round picks and two third round picks so that penalty doesn't even hurt them as much.

The bottom line for me is this: If there wasn't some kind of competitive advantage to be gained from this practice then why do it? Why take that risk? Especially against a team where the coach knows your tactics and is going to be on the lookout to possibly sell you out? How far do you go to win?