Improvements vs Cutbacks: Commentary & Discussion of Current Disney Management

[JPL]

Ok, but at least *you* recognize the embarrasing, certainly non-useful nature of complaining about Disney management for a decision that they haven't made and may never make, right? [There has been no official communication regarding any Wishes cutbacks].

It was used as an example of how Disney views these cutbacks

From Merriam-Webster online:
Main Entry: ex·am·ple
Pronunciation: \ig-ˈzam-pəl\
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Anglo-French essample, example, from Latin exemplum, from eximere to take out, from ex- + emere to take — more at redeem
Date: 14th century
1: one that serves as a pattern to be imitated or not to be imitated <a good example> <a bad example>
2: a punishment inflicted on someone as a warning to others ; also : an individual so punished
3: one (as an item or incident) that is representative of all of a group or type
4: a parallel or closely similar case especially when serving as a precedent or model
5: an instance (as a problem to be solved) serving to illustrate a rule or precept or to act as an exercise in the application of a rule

I believe #4 is the one that fits this situation.

The examples you give yes Mansion was hit out of the park but was only done because the ride was literally falling apart.

Pirates I'm sorry to say was a miss IMHo sticking in 4 AA's while removing a seen at the end that was costly to maintain is more of a subtraction that an edition. It was watsed money that could have been used elsewhere. The attraction was fine the way it was no update was needed to dumb it down for people who couldn't comprehend the movie was based on the attraction not the other way around.

[Stu29573]

...and he steps into the frey....
This is my take on the situation:

1. Disney CAN do wrong and screw things up. They have done so many times in the past.
2. Walt Disney could also screw up. (examples: Black Sunday, Holidayland, The Disneyland Circus) He was, alfter all, human.
3. There have been historic times of little or no advancement in the parks. These usually last about four or five years and are followed by bursts of energy and creativity.
4. You must look at the long term. Just because things are not happening right now doesn't mean they won't in the next few years.
5. Disney does need feedback in order to continue to improve the parks and services. However, there is a fine line between spirited constructive criticism, and bashing. The former will have a much better chance of being listened to. It's just human nature.
6. Walt Disney cannot spin in his grave due to many reasons; not the least of which is that he was cremated.
7. Ok, maybe "6" was mean, but that always gets on my nerves when people say that.

There you have it! Flame away!

[Ian]

Wow ... got busy at work and missed so much!!

Basically, locked and JPL and Goth have me covered as far as my opinion goes, so I'll just say:

[Tekneek]

Undoubtedly, they have many of those....but disney shows possibly the least amount of regard for Pedigreed businessmen of any company in america. They still allow management to be generated from the ice cream cart up....with many in park operations rising to high levels without impressive education resumes....

I know what you are saying. However, I have seen actions from Disney that fall in line with the group think that takes place in all large businesses during tough times. Not much out-of-the-box thinking going on. When times get tough, these people do what everybody else expects them to do. A visionary might see an opportunity to go against the tide. Many visionaries do come up with special things in the midst of economic crisis, but mature enterprises just try to "manage" their ride through the waves of crisis.

[cgriff]

The examples you give yes Mansion was hit out of the park but was only done because the ride was literally falling apart.

C'mon, say it: the HM refurb was an improvement to the park.

Pirates I'm sorry to say was a miss...It was watsed money... no update was needed to dumb it down for people who couldn't comprehend...

While you are certainly free to dislike anything that you want to, I think that your take on the POTC refurb is outside of the mainstream of opinion here.
http://www.intercot.com/discussion/s...ferrerid=22600
What stinks is that you can't just leave it at that though, you have to try to tear down those who like what you dislike as being "dumb" (or, as LockedOutLogic terms it "way off"). These are very un-Intercot sentiments.

[cgriff]

1. Disney CAN do wrong and screw things up. They have done so many times in the past.

Agreed. No one in this thread has said that WDW management makes perfect choices and is correct 100% of the time. Those who suggest that are engaging in hyperbole.

3. There have been historic times of little or no advancement in the parks. These usually last about four or five years and are followed by bursts of energy and creativity.

Yes, we refer to these long periods of stassis interupted by surges of change as "punctuated equillibrium"...

There you have it! Flame away!

No flames. We are in agreement.

[JPL]

C'mon, say it: the HM refurb was an improvement to the park.

I believe I stated this when I said yes it was hit out of the park. Stating the reason it was done doesn't detract from the statement.

What stinks is that you can't just leave it at that though, you have to try to tear down those who like what you dislike as being "dumb" (or, as LockedOutLogic terms it "way off").

I never said anyone was dumb I said the ride was dumbed down. Big Difference! And the reason I stated was truthful and the big reason for the change was people asking where Captain Jack was after the movie came out. Outside of marketing more merchandise of course.

These are very un-Intercot sentiments.

As for this statement I posted opininions based on fact. And I have been here for over 10 years through thick and thin when this site was under 1000 members and moderating for almost as long. So please don't throw the un-Intercot thing at me. If you can't take and respect others opinions simply move on to another post.

[cgriff]

I believe I stated this when I said yes it was hit out of the park.

Great. We have mutually established that WDW Management has made improvements to the parks. Progress! Now, I understand that you're still claiming that it's not a trend, since you personally did not like the POTC redo; however, I have cited polling data showing that the POTC redo was quite a big hit actually; so, the numbers bear out my position here. (Besides, double-check your chronology. Which refurb was first? That's right, POTC. Followed by Haunted Mansion. Therefore, even if one ignored the polls and we said that the POTC redo was less successful than was the HM redo; since HM was refrubished more recently, that makes the trend an upward trend, with the most successful refurb occuring most recently...)

I'm willing to forgive the unfortunate "dumbing down" remark. Just don't try to repress those of us with contrary opinions, especially with any sort of elitist I-HAVE-MORE-POSTS-THAN-YOU / I-OUTRANK-YOU kind of cracks. That and a dime will get you 10 cents.

...And I have been here for over 10 years through thick and thin when this site was under 1000 members and moderating for almost as long. So please don't throw the un-Intercot thing at me.

Hey, I just said don't do that.

If you can't take and respect others opinions simply move on to another post.

Oh the irony!

P.S. Wishes still scheduled for all evenings this week. So far nothing to confirm the original rumour (sic) that started this whole brewhaha.

[DizneyFreak2002]

Without getting into the big discussion currently going on here, let me just say, since they set the precedent with Fantasmic, and if they take Wishes down any nights, they're going down a slippery slope. Veeerrrrrry slippery slope. Bad corporate. Bad bad corporate.

They been on that slipery slope for a few years now.. Why change?? Only this time, they can blame the economy for their cut backs, and people will forgive them...

[DizneyFreak2002]

Great. We have mutually established that WDW Management has made improvements to the parks. Progress! Now, I understand that you're still claiming that it's not a trend, since you personally did not like the POTC redo; however, I have cited polling data showing that the POTC redo was quite a big hit actually; so, the numbers bear out my position here. (Besides, double-check your chronology. Which refurb was first? That's right, POTC. Followed by Haunted Mansion. Therefore, even if one ignored the polls and we said that the POTC redo was less successful than was the HM redo; since HM was refrubished more recently, that makes the trend an upward trend, with the most successful refurb occuring most recently...)

I'm willing to forgive the unfortunate "dumbing down" remark. Just don't try to repress those of us with contrary opinions, especially with any sort of elitist I-HAVE-MORE-POSTS-THAN-YOU / I-OUTRANK-YOU kind of cracks. That and a dime will get you 10 cents.



Hey, I just said don't do that.



Oh the irony!

P.S. Wishes still scheduled for all evenings this week. So far nothing to confirm the original rumour (sic) that started this whole brewhaha.

You do know your polling is taken from a Disney fan site right?? Those same people, as someone here stated, who wear the pixie dusted glasses... The poll is flawed at best and prejudiced toward Disney at the worst.

[Stu29573]

You do know your polling is taken from a Disney fan site right?? Those same people, as someone here stated, who wear the pixie dusted glasses... The poll is flawed at best and prejudiced toward Disney at the worst.

Ok......should they be polling people that HATE Disney?

Sorry, couldn't resist!

[JPL]

Great. We have mutually established that WDW Management has made improvements to the parks. Progress! Now, I understand that you're still claiming that it's not a trend, since you personally did not like the POTC redo; however, I have cited polling data showing that the POTC redo was quite a big hit actually; so, the numbers bear out my position here. (Besides, double-check your chronology. Which refurb was first? That's right, POTC. Followed by Haunted Mansion. Therefore, even if one ignored the polls and we said that the POTC redo was less successful than was the HM redo; since HM was refrubished more recently, that makes the trend an upward trend, with the most successful refurb occuring most recently...)

First off I never said Disney has not made any improvements to the parks. So stop putting words in my mouth and taking things out of context. Since the Haunted Mansion refurb there have been more cutbacks than additions in most cases I believe that indicates a downward trend.
And again the Haunted Mansion was done more out of necessity than want. The problems before the rehab were almost too many to list just for starters most of the scrims were ripped and dirty, the audio was out of sync and not working properly for years, AA's badly in need of repairs to mention a few. Luckily they handled the situation with great care and plussing the ride. But in actually even the original plans for this refurb were greatly cutback leaving out the on-ride photo and the much needed gift shop to satisfy fans.

I'm willing to forgive the unfortunate "dumbing down" remark. Just don't try to repress those of us with contrary opinions, especially with any sort of elitist I-HAVE-MORE-POSTS-THAN-YOU / I-OUTRANK-YOU kind of cracks. That and a dime will get you 10 cents.

Not trying to repress any opinions just defending myself from an attack on my character.
But again the point was missed on you saying that I my sentiments are un-Intercot couldn't be further from the truth and I am sure many others would back that up. I never once personally attacked anyone in my posts just stated a fact of why a ride was changed and the words "dumbed down" are a common expression used frequently in the simplification of many things. It does not imply that the people who like it are dumb it says that Disney felt they needed to simplify the story to appeal to more people for any number of reasons. I have had people ask me to dumb something down for them dealing with computer on many occaisions including some of my bosses.

And I believe I asked you in an earlier post if you want to quote use the entire qoute in order and not out of context.

[Tekneek]

From my perspective, Iger is doing a lot of the things that I didn't like about Eisner. As much as I would like to think that Eisner was ran out because he went stale, I know it was really because the share price stagnated.

[lockedoutlogic]

By the way.....the "way off" remark is way right....

They are exploiting widespread economic fears to cut and slice behind the scenes....a little here...a little there....

Not out of operational need....out of opportunistic want....

Saying this doesn't make me a disney hater....it makes me someone who worked on the ground at WDW when they DID this is a previous period....

It's not bile....it's experience....and it is as plain as day....

That doesn't mean there can't be a huge upside to this tact....i've maintained that the labor demand is the single biggest issue facing growth at WDW....so if they can effectively pary....outsource.....clone....whatever it is they need to do to their labor demands....then it will make expansion a possibility again....which it isn't....

As far as entertainment goes....perhaps they need to clear the decks from time to time.....


But that doesn't change that this is still "exploitive" behavior....it is

[lockedoutlogic]

From my perspective, Iger is doing a lot of the things that I didn't like about Eisner. As much as I would like to think that Eisner was ran out because he went stale, I know it was really because the share price stagnated.

I think that the megalomaniac and paranoid behavior became to public for the tastes of everyone involved....and that ultimately led to the ouster of the Eis.....The Roy/Gold thing...the Ovitz lawsuit...the loss of every conceivable lieutenant....etc...etc...etc....

As far as Iger goes....Eisner has been documented as berating him as just a suit and lacking the creativity needed to run Disney....

he never wanted him to have the job....there just weren't any options....

Iger must prove he can do it.....even if that means bringing in a creative right hand to do all the "fun stuff"....and i don't think lasseter is it...just a stepping stone

[DizneyFreak2002]

Ok......should they be polling people that HATE Disney?

Sorry, couldn't resist!

Good one, but, if you are going to quote a poll as proof that a ride refurb was a major success and a home run, then be fair with it... Poll 1000 ordinary people, not Disney geeks from a Disney fan site, and see what the consensus is... Using a poll one an obvious Disney fan site is not good proof that a refurb was a smashing success..

[DizneyFreak2002]

And again the Haunted Mansion was done more out of necessity than want. The problems before the rehab were almost too many to list just for starters most of the scrims were ripped and dirty, the audio was out of sync and not working properly for years, AA's badly in need of repairs to mention a few. Luckily they handled the situation with great care and plussing the ride. But in actually even the original plans for this refurb were greatly cutback leaving out the on-ride photo and the much needed gift shop to satisfy fans.

The HM refurb was a great example of what Imagineering can do if given the opportunity rto do what THEY want to do.. Instead, management tells WDI what to do now.. WDI is no longer allowed to be innovative and imaginative... Management has ruined an once great group... I may have to say, Universal Creative may start to have the edge now with Harry Potter looking every bit of awesome, a new Transformers ride which sounds like a Disney killer, and a few other massive projects just waiting to get the green light... Disney, watch out... The competition caught up and will soon be passing ya... See ya in the rear view...

[lockedoutlogic]

The HM refurb was a great example of what Imagineering can do if given the opportunity rto do what THEY want to do.. Instead, management tells WDI what to do now.. WDI is no longer allowed to be innovative and imaginative... Management has ruined an once great group... I may have to say, Universal Creative may start to have the edge now with Harry Potter looking every bit of awesome, a new Transformers ride which sounds like a Disney killer, and a few other massive projects just waiting to get the green light... Disney, watch out... The competition caught up and will soon be passing ya... See ya in the rear view...

you have learned much....but you still have much to learn.....

universals developments far exceed disney's currently.....but it will take more than some rides to ever get close.....

probably like a thousand....

don't doubt the mouse's hold over the psyche....that's the "magic" of disney

[DizneyFreak2002]

I think that the megalomaniac and paranoid behavior became to public for the tastes of everyone involved....and that ultimately led to the ouster of the Eis.....The Roy/Gold thing...the Ovitz lawsuit...the loss of every conceivable lieutenant....etc...etc...etc....

As far as Iger goes....Eisner has been documented as berating him as just a suit and lacking the creativity needed to run Disney....

he never wanted him to have the job....there just weren't any options....

Iger must prove he can do it.....even if that means bringing in a creative right hand to do all the "fun stuff"....and i don't think lasseter is it...just a stepping stone

Lasseter is a Pixar lacky... He worries about Pixar and only Pixar.. You think all Pixar all the time in WDW is just a coincidence??? Plus, Lasseter's concern is Disneyland, not WDW...

[Mickey91]

I cannot believe that anyone is so blind not to see what JPL and Ian are saying!! I have told my DH for years that the prices keep going up and the service keeps going down! The parks are way dirtier and the paint is no longer perfect! The cut backs are to line the pockets of execs and shareholders and no, the "new" stuff isn't great, it isn't good, it is dumb!! I cannot believe anyone actually likes the new DUMBED DOWN version of SSE!! I do not need Mrs Calloway telling me the Roman roads were the first world wide web and the monks were the first back up system!! What happened to Jeremy Irons saying "ah, the renaissance!"

The polls they supposedly took telling them what more people wanted were a joke!! But, some people will follow anywhere they are lead...