Main Street USA to Receive Concrete Replacement

[merciantinkerbell]

I'm fence sitting on this one. Yes I see the point that removing the curbs would ruin authenticity and the responsibility people should have for themselves BUT conversely, with hubby in wheelchair we had trouble finding a spot to get on/off pavement that wasn't clogged with people! Perhaps more ramps or make existing ramps bigger but not remove curbs completely would be good. However, I understand its all rumours so far so lets see what happens

[Mrs Bus Driver]

What? . . . slanted sidewalks? They didn't have those in Marceline. I can't believe how much more they are getting away from Walt's idea of his home-town "turn of the century" Main St. Heck they probably didn't even have paved streets back then. I think they should go back to a dirt street and wooden sidewalks, then we'd have some real authenticity. First, a Starbucks, and now this. Bah! Humbug!

Yeah! lets hear it for authenticity, can't wait to drive my EVC over those wooden sidewalks!

[brownie]

What? . . . slanted sidewalks? They didn't have those in Marceline. I can't believe how much more they are getting away from Walt's idea of his home-town "turn of the century" Main St. Heck they probably didn't even have paved streets back then. I think they should go back to a dirt street and wooden sidewalks, then we'd have some real authenticity. First, a Starbucks, and now this. Bah! Humbug!

Paved streets in one form or another have been around since the 1800's. Brick was also a common paving material for roads back in the day.

[Terra]

Brick all the way down would actually look pretty amazing I think! Though it may not hold up under the huge crowds for long!

[joonyer]

Paved streets in one form or another have been around since the 1800's. Brick was also a common paving material for roads back in the day.

True, but I bet the streets in Marceline, Missouri weren't paved in 1900. It wasn't exactly New York or Chicago, or even St. Louis. At any rate, I was only making a joke about the fervent WDW purists complaining about the conversion of the Main Street Bakery into a location that sold Starbucks coffee. No Starbucks in Marceline, either, you know.

[seanyred]

True, but I bet the streets in Marceline, Missouri weren't paved in 1900. It wasn't exactly New York or Chicago, or even St. Louis. At any rate, I was only making a joke about the fervent WDW purists complaining about the conversion of the Main Street Bakery into a location that sold Starbucks coffee. No Starbucks in Marceline, either, you know.

Also don't forget the store front windows wouldn't be that low in Marceline to accommodate kids.

[mickeys_princess_mom]

So is this just a rumour or what? No construction going on so far?....

[seanyred]

So is this just a rumour or what? No construction going on so far?....

There is construction to replace the concrete on Main Street and it should have already started. The rumor part is about the curbs going away.

[mickeys_princess_mom]

There is construction to replace the concrete on Main Street and it should have already started. The rumor part is about the curbs going away.

Gotcha.

[Altair]

Paved streets in one form or another have been around since the 1800's.

The ancient Roman Empire had paved roads. You can see them in Spaceship Earth. :wink:

[ronandjulie]

Change is part of Disney World. I believe that if Walt were still alive today, Disney purists heads wouls spin at the rate at which things would change at Disney World. So they change the structure of main street once every 40 years or so. Get over it. That being said, if more people would walk instead of riding the scooters (being obese is NOT a handicap) and if people didn't need those gigantic strollers, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

[Mrs Bus Driver]

Change is part of Disney World. I believe that if Walt were still alive today, Disney purists heads wouls spin at the rate at which things would change at Disney World. So they change the structure of main street once every 40 years or so. Get over it. That being said, if more people would walk instead of riding the scooters (being obese is NOT a handicap) and if people didn't need those gigantic strollers, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

You don't know me.
But I gained weight after I couldn't breath and would have coughing fits every time I went up the stairs to my 3rd floor apt. I have pulmonary fibrosis which the doctors didn't figure out until it was pretty well progressed. There is no treatment except lung transplant which really isn't a good solution. So I choose to do what I can while I can. I still walk my dogs 3/4 times a day, do all of my own house work, shopping and so on. Most people with my illness only live 5 years after being diagnosed that was 4 years ago for me and I'm still here. Since I can only walk short distance before my oxygen levels drop and must be on oxygen 24/7 I will be riding a scooter at WDW. I plan on enjoying myself and doing as much as I can on my vacation and if you don't like how I look on a scooter to bad. Just count of the fact that I will never be rude to you or look down on you after all if we ever meet I'll be on vacation.

[JerseyDad]

.....I look at this proposed change from the viewpoint of a civil engineer's eye ...because I do stuff like this every day.

.....personally ...I see some potential problems with removing the full height (6" to 7" reveal) curb and replacing it with 'flush' curbs.

......although it provides for a zero barrier with regards to ADA compliance ....it also provides for zero protection to the pedestrians on the sidewalk from vehicles. Of course, most will say, "It's WDW ....what vehicles"? But ....there ARE parades ...there ARE vehicles that use the Main Street road during those parades ...and although people will argue that they are 'only' parade floats ....stranger things have occurred. If ADA compliance was the reason for the proposed change ...then the easiest, most reasonable "fix" would be to install ADA compliant sidewalk ramps at more frequent intervals (perhaps every 30' feet)....and there is no need to replace all the sidewalks. Also ...if there is a zero height curb ...then a detectable warning surface strip must be installed at the sidewalk transition to the pavement (those are those bright red or yellow truncated dome surface finishes that there for the visually impaired )

....secondly ...at the moment ...the sidewalks that exist have a cross-slope on them (sloped toward the street from the storefronts) ...of probably 1% to 2%. If you remove the 6" - 7" high curb ...then the sidewalk will then slope from the storefront to what was the bottom of the previous curb. the resulting x-slope could be increased to 3% to 5% (the max allowable x-slope in many municipalities) ...and walking longitudinally on a surface with a +3% x-slope is somewhat uncomfortable ...and 5% x-slopes present a "tipping" hazard to those in wheelchairs.

....thirdly ....curbs help control storm runoff from the street surface ...and keep it in the street. I have been on Main Street in WDW during some pretty intense downpours ...and the water builds up quickly at the curbs. If the curb no longer exists ....then water will 'creep" up the sidewalk during heavy rainfall events.

...it'll be interesting to see how this all plays out ...and I really hope it doesn't affect the visually reality of the Main Street design.

[Hammer]

.....I look at this proposed change from the viewpoint of a civil engineer's eye ...because I do stuff like this every day.

.....personally ...I see some potential problems with removing the full height (6" to 7" reveal) curb and replacing it with 'flush' curbs.

......although it provides for a zero barrier with regards to ADA compliance ....it also provides for zero protection to the pedestrians on the sidewalk from vehicles. Of course, most will say, "It's WDW ....what vehicles"? But ....there ARE parades ...there ARE vehicles that use the Main Street road during those parades ...and although people will argue that they are 'only' parade floats ....stranger things have occurred. If ADA compliance was the reason for the proposed change ...then the easiest, most reasonable "fix" would be to install ADA compliant sidewalk ramps at more frequent intervals (perhaps every 30' feet)....and there is no need to replace all the sidewalks. Also ...if there is a zero height curb ...then a detectable warning surface strip must be installed at the sidewalk transition to the pavement (those are those bright red or yellow truncated dome surface finishes that there for the visually impaired )

....secondly ...at the moment ...the sidewalks that exist have a cross-slope on them (sloped toward the street from the storefronts) ...of probably 1% to 2%. If you remove the 6" - 7" high curb ...then the sidewalk will then slope from the storefront to what was the bottom of the previous curb. the resulting x-slope could be increased to 3% to 5% (the max allowable x-slope in many municipalities) ...and walking longitudinally on a surface with a +3% x-slope is somewhat uncomfortable ...and 5% x-slopes present a "tipping" hazard to those in wheelchairs.

....thirdly ....curbs help control storm runoff from the street surface ...and keep it in the street. I have been on Main Street in WDW during some pretty intense downpours ...and the water builds up quickly at the curbs. If the curb no longer exists ....then water will 'creep" up the sidewalk during heavy rainfall events.

...it'll be interesting to see how this all plays out ...and I really hope it doesn't affect the visually reality of the Main Street design.

JerseyDad, thank you for your post. It made me smile as my late father was a civil engineer in NJ (and Florida before that). He probably would have said many of the same things as you. I agree, I think adding additional ramps without totally removing all the curbs would be the best option. It would be a nice compromise.

[Quadstriker]

Very nice insight Jersey, thanks.

[PirateLover]

Yes, definitely some great points there! I definitely thought about the parade vehicle aspect, but not the storm runoff.

I guess we will just have to wait and see what happens. Whatever they are doing, I'm sure it was not done on a whim.

[JerseyDad]

.....wow ...glad some of my input / insight is appreciated!! My wife .....usually just tells me to stop complaining!!

.....I guess all those college loans were worth it!!

[Main Street Jim]

Even *with* the curbs, I have *personally* witnessed parade floats climbing the curb after missing a turn at the Confectionery/Emporium turn.

It had started *pouring* down rain one afternoon (big surprise...LOL) halfway through the parade. When they started getting to about Casey's (coming from Liberty Square/Frontierland), the streets started flooding. We had to clear guests out of the streets as they scrambled to get indoors, and especially out of that little area at the "tip" of Town Square. We got them (the guests) out, took down our ropes and stanchions, and here comes the parade floats *haulin' the mail* down the street. The first float - the Mickey snowglobe - was going too fast, couldn't make the turn, and slid up right on up the curb at that "tip". Good thing we cleared it out.

[JerseyDad]

Even *with* the curbs, I have *personally* witnessed parade floats climbing the curb after missing a turn at the Confectionery/Emporium turn.

It had started *pouring* down rain one afternoon (big surprise...LOL) halfway through the parade. When they started getting to about Casey's (coming from Liberty Square/Frontierland), the streets started flooding. We had to clear guests out of the streets as they scrambled to get indoors, and especially out of that little area at the "tip" of Town Square. We got them (the guests) out, took down our ropes and stanchions, and here comes the parade floats *haulin' the mail* down the street. The first float - the Mickey snowglobe - was going too fast, couldn't make the turn, and slid up right on up the curb at that "tip". Good thing we cleared it out.

....it sounds like there was a pedestrian ramp there that allowed the float to slide up the 'curb"?

....I can definitely see that happening even with full height curbs. Heck ...cars ...trucks ...buses jump curbs all the time ...even at slow speeds. So, many people will ask the question: "Why have the curbs at all"? (outside of WDW ...in the 'real' world ...for example.).

....well ....liability plays a large part of it. A curb gives the pedestrian ...or property owner ..."a chance" of being protected. That's it ....that's all you need to do. A curb has "a chance" of deflecting an out of control vehicle just enough to slow it / deflect it ...and possibly protect the public,or private property from damage. You cannot design for all possible scanrios to protect life & property ...all you can do is "try" ....and that's what you need to do in order to avoid losing a lawsuit that you may get dragged into because of an accident.

....just some added info that you may find interesting: When I have designed site's for shopping centers / retail / residential developments ...sometimes we need to install a "guard-rail" (those steel beam barriers you see on the roads, etc). Well ....I NEVER label them as "guard-rails" ...because if a car crashes through one ...and injures (or kills) someone ...or damages property on the other side ...I'll be sitting in court ...and a lawyer will say to me, "You called it a guard-rail" .....I guess you didn't design it properly ...because it didn't guard anything ...and my client is injured / dead / had house destroyed"...etc.

....therefore I always label them as "GUIDE-RAILS" ....with the intent to deflect a vehicle ...and giving no promise of GUARDING anything. Because of that ONE WORD change ....I'd have a better chance of not losing my livelihood.

.....sorry if that was a bit off topic ...but it popped into my head as I read the post.

[Renfairwedding]

With all this speculation could it just be a basic project to fix a leaky roof? The park is on the second level. Like a parking deck it may be time to rehab some of the concrete.