cheating in new england

[Epc0tphr34k]

NFL commissioner Roger Goodell has determined that the New England Patriots violated league rules Sunday when they videotaped defensive signals by the New York Jets' coaches, according to league sources.

NFL security officials confiscated a camera and videotape from Patriots video assistant Matt Estrella on the New England sidelines when it was suspected he was recording the Jets' defensive signals. Sources say the visual evidence confirmed the suspicion.

Goodell is considering severe sanctions, including the possibility of docking the Patriots "multiple draft picks" because it is the competitive violation in the wake of a stern warning to all teams since he became commissioner, the sources said. The Patriots have been suspected in previous incidents.

The Patriots will be allowed an opportunity to present their case by Friday, sources said, most likely via the telephone.

NFL spokesman Greg Aiello said on Tuesday that no official decision has been made and that the club has not been notified.

The league also was reviewing a possible violation into the number of radio frequencies the Patriots were using during Sunday's game, sources said. The team did not have a satisfactory explanation when asked about possible irregularities in its communication setup during the game.

Goodell is expected to have a decision no later than Friday but that is not set in stone.

Patriots owner Robert Kraft was asked when he expected a verdict, but said those questions had to be directed toward Goodell.

"There is an investigation going on now, and perhaps an adjudication of it, and I think it would be inappropriate at this time to make any comment," Kraft told reporters at a charity appearance Tuesday. "When you're successful in anything, a lot of people like to try to take you down and do different things. We understand that.

"We worked very hard to try to put an organization together that we all could be proud of in New England, and we're very proud of the New England Patriots organization and the record that they've established over the last 13 seasons and one game."

wow, must be easy to rack up a lot of offense and make the right call when you know exactly what defense is being called.
IMHO if Goodell officially decides they cheated they should not be able to make the playoffs regardless of their record.
Cheating in a game is more severe to me than anything Vick or Pacman has done.

[JPL]

I think if this found to be ture the Game should be a forfeit and the Jets should get the win. And this is coming from a Giants Fan

[DizneyFreak2002]

You still have to play the game on the field... Sure, it may give them an advantage, but, Brady still has to pass, his receivers still have to catch the ball... And fact is, the Jets aren't as good as the Patriots anyway.... They shouldn't have to forfeit anything.... But, heavy fines, maybe even a suspension the HC (Billy Boy's abbreviation of head coach)... But a forfeit??? Nah.....

As far as the comment that cheating is worse than what Vick or Jones did??? Are you kidding me??? Cheating is worse than killing and torturing dogs and being involved in a shootout where a man is left hospitalized??? I heard it all now.... Chris R, please tell me you were being sarcastic with this statement????

[Epc0tphr34k]

As far as the comment that cheating is worse than what Vick or Jones did??? Are you kidding me??? Cheating is worse than killing and torturing dogs and being involved in a shootout where a man is left hospitalized??? I heard it all now.... Chris R, please tell me you were being sarcastic with this statement????

as far as the game and what its sanctioning body should be punishing people for i think this should be a bigger deal. those other things are in the interest of the law and its juristiction. maybe for humanity it is not worse but for the game of football itself this is the crime.

as far as people having to play the game on the field...any monkey can pick a part a defense if they are being told through their helmet what the coverages are and where the single coverage is gonna be. this is not the first time the patriots have been accused of this. and if you know where where the rush is coming from its easy to slide the protection.
but scheme and strategy often make the difference look at the saints they arguably had less talent last year(esp on defense) than they have had in the past yet last year was the farthest they went into the playoffs. jon gruden's offense may have been what put the buccs over the top when they won the superbowl . tony dungy's defense turned the colts from a great offensive team to something truly scary. So yaeh if bellechek was stealing signals to make his calls or to help brady call audibles then that is a big crime. and if they caught the cam stealing deffensive queues whose to say they weren't also checking on offensive queues.

[Jeff]

This goes on at all levels of football - maybe not to the sophisticated level the Pats were using but it goes on. We had an opposing team a few years back who tried to use one of those "listening ear" things they advertise on TV to hear our huddle and sideline.

Even in High School football I disguise my D signals or throw in dummy hand gestures - just like baseball coaches. It's not that hard to counter a spying O. I would think, in the NFL for sure, such "counter measures" would be common place.

[kakn7294]

Whether it's commonplace or not, cheating is unacceptable from any team at any level in any sport and while it's not a crime of the magnitude of the other offenses that have taken place recently, it still deserves a harsh punishment. And it makes me wonder, if the Pats were the better team over the Jets, why did they feel the need to cheat? How long this has gone on - does this go back to and tarnish the Superbowl years? Are the Patriots really that good of a team or if they are only that good because they are able to outmaneuver defenses because they know what's coming? Sure, it still takes skill to make those plays and I know I couldn't do it, but it's so much easier to run your patterns and make plays when you know what your opponent is going to be doing. And who else out there is cheating? It kind of tarnishes the whole sport...

[Ian]

The only issue I have with this is a semantical one in that it's specifically against the rules to do it the way the Pats allegedly did.

People try and steal signals all the time ... it's nothing new. It's just looking for every edge you can get.

I agree that you still need to execute ... knowing what defense the other team has called is really only a moderate advantage.

[kakn7294]

I should clarify my post - I'm not saying that the Patriots aren't a good team - they have a lot of talent there and it still takes that talent to win. I was just using them as an example of what I wanted to say because of the recent incident. What I was trying to say is that I guess that I always knew that cheating goes on but having it brought to light and proven to occur puts a bad light on the sport for me and now I wonder who else has done it and what it's gained them that they shouldn't have achieved. I also feel that without punishment, it's only going to encourage it more from the NFL all the way down to the pee-wee leagues.

[Jimenyfan]

This goes on at all levels of football - maybe not to the sophisticated level the Pats were using but it goes on. We had an opposing team a few years back who tried to use one of those "listening ear" things they advertise on TV to hear our huddle and sideline.

Even in High School football I disguise my D signals or throw in dummy hand gestures - just like baseball coaches. It's not that hard to counter a spying O. I would think, in the NFL for sure, such "counter measures" would be common place.

My sons high school defense coach does the same thing for the same reason.

[Scar]

I had no idea this was even illegal! Now, since it is, they should be punished. But, why is this illegal? The team giving the signals (which by the way is every team) should be able to disguise / change them well enough to confuse the other team. In fact if the Jets thought the Pats were doing this, then they should have changed them around and then the Jets would have had the advantage.

Not the same, but similar… I’ve heard many baseball hitters say they do not want to know the type of pitch coming (location is a different matter.) They say they don’t trust it. What if they’re told it’s a curve ball, and they hang in at a ball coming at their head and it’s really a fastball.

[Jeff G]

I agree that you still need to execute ... knowing what defense the other team has called is really only a moderate advantage.

To offer another perspective, if a offense knows what coverage a defense is running or if you know a team is cheating/blitzing to the strong/weakside you can set your mismatches based on the coverage. This is a huge advantage to the offense and can affect the out come of the game.

Stealing signals happens at almost every level from high school thru pro and coaches alter there signals. The idea of a camera man captuing these signals on tape is where NE stepped over the line. I'm sure the camera had a zoom on it that is much stronger than the human eye.

It is illegal to use a camera and NE got caught. The advantage that NE had by using this camera may or may not have altered the outcome of the game. In my opinion NE should have to forfiet the game since they cheated.

It's also noted that they were suspected of doing this in the past. Here in Wisconsinit was reported the Ted Thompson of the Packers had turned this same complaint in to the NFL about NE after last years game.

[battlefield2freak]

hello you need to think about this instead of accusing everyone on the patriots. to those of you who arent thank you. first off ask yourself why int he world someone like belicheck woucld need to send someone to spy on the jets. they just played the jets in the playoffs and regular season. 2nd the jets arent really a matchup to the patriots so yea its easy to get 38 and with a good defense allow only 14 points. 3rd spying on the jets doesnt determine if the reciever/rb/QB will fumble or catch the ball. and to those who say the patriots shouldnt be allowed to get into the playoffs are taking things to seriously. the patriots will be allowed into the playoffs depending on how wel they do this year just like any other team, just because you dont like a certain team doenst mean you can say they shouldnt be allowed into the playoffs. i mean you dont even know if he was told to do it or if he acted on his own will. if he did act on his own will he will be the only one punished more than likely.

[Epc0tphr34k]

I had no idea this was even illegal! Now, since it is, they should be punished. But, why is this illegal? The team giving the signals (which by the way is every team) should be able to disguise / change them well enough to confuse the other team. In fact if the Jets thought the Pats were doing this, then they should have changed them around and then the Jets would have had the advantage.

what is illegal is that they are recording it to match up with the poloroids they are allowed to take. Stealing signals does happen on the feild and that is fine. its ok for a safety to try and out think its not ok to take in something and record it. there is supposedly a smoking gun of them recording the opposing sideline and specifically the jets coaches

hello you need to think about this instead of accusing everyone on the patriots. to those of you who arent thank you. first off ask yourself why int he world someone like belicheck woucld need to send someone to spy on the jets. they just played the jets in the playoffs and regular season. 2nd the jets arent really a matchup to the patriots so yea its easy to get 38 and with a good defense allow only 14 points. 3rd spying on the jets doesnt determine if the reciever/rb/QB will fumble or catch the ball. and to those who say the patriots shouldnt be allowed to get into the playoffs are taking things to seriously. the patriots will be allowed into the playoffs depending on how wel they do this year just like any other team, just because you dont like a certain team doenst mean you can say they shouldnt be allowed into the playoffs. i mean you dont even know if he was told to do it or if he acted on his own will. if he did act on his own will he will be the only one punished more than likely.

The point of the matter is the team broke the rules. bellichek has now apologized for the incident . punishing a team by not allowing them into the play offs is standard practice in the ncaa for probation if a team breaks league rules, and incidentally terrell davis agrees with me that this should be the action taken.

if this were the eagles doing this i would find the same punishment suitable and i live and die for midnight green. would it break my heart? yes. would it be fair due to the fact that they broke the rules i also think yes.
the likely punishment however will be loss of multiple draft picks and some suspensions of some sort. which i don't think fits the crime but it is what is being said will be done

[SBETigg]

And who else out there is cheating? It kind of tarnishes the whole sport...

I totally agree. I wonder if it's more widespread and I think it requires serious study and suitable punishments. I'm very disappointed.

[battlefield2freak]

what is illegal is that they are recording it to match up with the poloroids they are allowed to take. Stealing signals does happen on the feild and that is fine. its ok for a safety to try and out think its not ok to take in something and record it. there is supposedly a smoking gun of them recording the opposing sideline and specifically the jets coaches




The point of the matter is the team broke the rules. bellichek has now apologized for the incident . punishing a team by not allowing them into the play offs is standard practice in the ncaa for probation if a team breaks league rules, and incidentally terrell davis agrees with me that this should be the action taken.

if this were the eagles doing this i would find the same punishment suitable and i live and die for midnight green. would it break my heart? yes. would it be fair due to the fact that they broke the rules i also think yes.
the likely punishment however will be loss of multiple draft picks and some suspensions of some sort. which i don't think fits the crime but it is what is being said will be done

as you said standard practice in the NCAA. the news article on the nfl site said the punishments would be either fines, suspensions, or loss of draft picks or all of them. not allowing a team into the playoffs is totaly unfair so what would the point of playing a season be if your notg oing to be allowed into the playoffs or have a chance. this is pro not college, big differences in the rules

[DizneyFreak2002]

I totally agree. I wonder if it's more widespread and I think it requires serious study and suitable punishments. I'm very disappointed.

Well, mangini did bring the Patriots culture to the Jets... so....

[Hammer]

Moderator Alert

Okay, everyone, let's all take a breath. Some of these posts are getting a bit out of hand. Let's keep the conversation civil.

The reason I think New England should (and possibly will) get a harsh penalty is they received a warning for doing the exact same thing last year. This is not a first offense.

[Ian]

It occurred to me this afternoon ... when the Eagles played the Patriots in the Super Bowl, all second half I clearly remember thinking, "Man ... it's like their offense knows exactly what defense we're gonna be in every time!"

Turns out I was right.

[Epc0tphr34k]

It occurred to me this afternoon ... when the Eagles played the Patriots in the Super Bowl, all second half I clearly remember thinking, "Man ... it's like their offense knows exactly what defense we're gonna be in every time!"

Turns out I was right.

watching my dvd of the game you kow you're right....and even if they weren't using this tactic, at least you brought a smile to my face

[Ian]

I read or heard somewhere that an analysis of Patriots division games shows a remarkable number of games where they were losing at halftime, only to come out and dominate in the second half.

Guess those halftime adjustments are a lot easier once you've got all the signals stolen!