Patriots and Running Up the Score

[Maleficent's Dad]

Apparently Ian's not the only one thinking that what the Pats did was wrong.

ESPN ripped them today. There's quite a piece by Mark Schlereth which absolutely lambastes Belichick for his calls during the game. And that's just one segment.

There's plenty about it online, otherwise check out Sportscenter on TV.

Most seem to agree on this much: The Patriots are a GREAT team. But their on-field actions on Sunday were low-class.

[Hammer]

You didn't jump out to accuse the Colts of the same thing in week one, when they kept on scoring against a defeated New Orleans 41-10. And not a word when San Diego handed Denver their most lopsided home loss since '66, 41-3. But the Patriots keep on scoring and it's a big terrible thing to do? I agree that it did seem a bit much and the Redskins were clearly outplayed, but wouldn't it have been insulting for the Patriots to give anything less than their best on the field?

Sherri, I just went on NFL.com and read the recap of both games you mentioned. Honestly, don't know what Norv Turner was thinking, but I rarely ever do. I was rooting for Denver in that game. With the Colts first game of the season, the score was 24-10 at the start of the 4th quarter. Nice lead, but hardly insurmountable. Viniteri kicks a field goal, making it 27-10. The Colts scored a touchdown after eating up close to 3 minutes on a 5 play drive. The Indy defense scored the final TD on 83 yard interception return.

[Maleficent's Dad]

Here's the reason why the Pats are still throwing with the starters in during a blow-out:

Bill Belichek has Tom Brady on his Fantasy Football Team.

[Ian]

Here's the reason why the Pats are still throwing with the starters in during a blow-out:

Bill Belichek has Tom Brady on his Fantasy Football Team.

You know you laugh, but while it's certainly a lesser consideration, I do find it annoying that Tom Brady wracks up all these fantasy points largely because they're throwing when they shouldn't be.

Not only has my comment been construed wrong here, but as well in the Red Sox thread. So, I guess I just need to stay out of these. This way, I don't get myself into trouble.

Now see the Red Sox are a team I can get behind. They're my AL team all the way. I was totally rooting for them to win the Series.

And as far as being misconstrued goes, don't let it worry you. That's the risk that comes with communicating in writing sometimes. Tone can be very difficult to discern. That's why email is so dangerous!

[Ian]

Honestly, don't know what Norv Turner was thinking, but I rarely ever do. I was rooting for Denver in that game.With the Colts first game of the season, the score was 24-10 at the start of the 4th quarter. Nice lead, but hardly insurmountable. Viniteri kicks a field goal, making it 27-10. The Colts scored a touchdown after eating up close to 3 minutes on a 5 play drive. The Indy defense scored the final TD on 83 yard interception return.

There's a huge difference between 24-10 and what amounted to 40-0.

As far as the San Diego game, I'm not excusing what they did, but it was also vastly different from the Pats game.

First of all, it was the first game of the season where the Chargers really got anything going. I think Turner may have let things get away from him a little bit in his excitement.

Remember, they were 1-3 at that point and had scored over 20 points only once. Conversely, their defense had given up 30 or more points in three of those games. Turner had a legitimate reason to give himself a cushion.

Also ... and this is a very important distinction ... the Chargers and Broncos are not only in the same Conference, they're in the same division! That's a huge difference from being an undefeated team, who's outscoring opponents by 3 touchdowns a game, playing a non-Conference team.

Edited to add two points:

1. Apparently, the Patriots also pulled the old "Oops the opposing team's headsets mysteriously stopped functioning." trick again. ESPN reports that. "
To make matters worse, Gibbs and the coaches lost their communication system during the game. They couldn't work the headsets."

2. Belichek is rampantly unapologetic. This is what he said when he was asked about it:

"I've been coaching too long," Belichick said. "I remember being on that side. When I was coaching defense it was my job to keep the score down, not theirs. When you're playing defense it's your job to stop them. It's not [the offense's] job to not score. It's like I tell the offense, what the [expletive] do you think I send you guys out there for? To punt? We have a punt team for that. That's not your job. Your job is to go out there and score points. If you come off the field and you haven't scored points you haven't done your job."

Classy, Bill ... very classy ...

[PirateLover]

Hmm. I opened up this reply box out of habit, I guess but I have to think about what I say. First of all, didn't there used to be a sticky in this forum with the rules? I believe it gave a warning that sports debates could get heated, don't take things personal etc.

The nature of sports, on every level, is that is super competitive. The fans are sometimes more competitive than the players! As a Philly fan, I have been on the side of being hated. Unfortunately for me, in my lifetime we have never been hated because we had good teams, just because people see us as fans to be boorish drunks who do nothing but cause problems. And yes I get my back up against the wall and defend my city any time it is maligned. So in a way I get the impassioned responses from Pats fans.

Prior to this year, I was a Pats admirer. Now I am just left really confused. Is Belichik simply a genius, or a nefarious mastermind? I have heard a theory that they might've been caught on purpose cheating, to give the team something extra to fight for. That he knew with Mangini gone to another team the truth would come out eventually and it was better to let it get exposed and then have something to prove to the world in going undefeated. I don't know that I believe this theory, but certainly since that incident the Pats have just been on a tear and play every game like it's the Super Bowl. Not that that's a bad thing, I wish my team would play like that, but it's just rare in pro sports these days.

As far as running up the score, it is frowned upon in every level of sports. Youth leagues often have "mercy rules" where the game is simply ended when you've reached an insurmountable lead.
Lets look at their scores this year:
38-14, 38-14, 38-7, 34-14, 34-17, 48-27, 49-28, 52-7.

The last one is by far the worst, and I don't think you can argue that they ran up the score. You are free to argue whether that is a sign of class or whatever, but if 52-7 isn't running up the score, I don't know what is. Yes, I think every team has a game where they get carried away and score a lot of points. Heck the Eagles had a game this year in which I believe the final score was 56-28. But look at the rest of their abysmal season. It was a fluke. Same goes with most of the other examples one could come up with. But the Pats do it practically every week. No one is saying that they shouldn't score points, and their prolific offense honestly didn't bother me much until this week. But they downright embarrassed the Redskins, and at the end of the day, I think it was wrong.

OK I'm done!!!!

[Ian]

Heck the Eagles had a game this year in which I believe the final score was 56-28.

In fairness, though, that game was closer than the score would make it appear.

Once they knew they had it salted away, they brought in Kevin Kolb, rested McNabb, rested Westbrook, etc.

[PirateLover]

In fairness, though, that game was closer than the score would make it appear.

Once they knew they had it salted away, they brought in Kevin Kolb, rested McNabb, rested Westbrook, etc.

Correct, that was kind of my point but I don't think I was clear enough. Lots of teams have games in which they score many points, but it is the fashion in which it is done that is the difference. The final scores aren't always indicators of how the entire game went. I actually remember the commentators in that game saying something about how you don't want to start running up the score and then voila, in comes the backups.

[GothMickey]

Bill Belichek and class do not belong in the same sentence. Belichek is the most classless, trashiest, and bush league coach in football. They have a good team. There is no need to run the score up.

[SBETigg]

I can tell based on your responses that attempting to sway your opinion on this is fruitless. You're clearly a Pats fan and will defend your team regardless of what they do or say.

If you weren't aware that running up the score his highly frowned upon in the NFL, then I apologize. I must have mis-interpreted your tone.

I am a fan, and a little defensive, but I was just as horrified and embarrassed by the earlier cheating allegations as anyone else, not defending that at all. This is different for me. You said it was an unwritten rule, which means it's really not a rule and not frowned on in any official way. Unofficially, perhaps, and I can agree that it just doesn't seem nice. I also think that people look for things to sneer at with the Patriots that they will easily forgive in other teams. I still don't think this would have even been an issue for you if it wasn't the Pats.

In the spirit of good sportsmanship, I can also add that Belichick could at least wear a nice sweatshirt to games. So he isn't a suit guy, okay, but the sweatshirt with cut-off sleeves, no less? Sheesh, Bill, I wouldn't wear that to the grocery store let alone in a professional environment. Okay? Better?

[dolphinmickey9170]

Ok, so this is a "Help me to understand" question. If the running up the score is frowned upon, doesn't it also mean it isn't a written rule? And is this just feelings? Now that I have been schooled and understand what running up the score is, I want to know the written or just understood rules. If it is something that is frowned upon, than I completely and whole-heartedly agree with you. However, if it is a written rule that no team shall run up the score, than why isn't something done about it? Are there penalties given? Please help me understand?!?

Again, I am asking in the "teach me" sense. Thank you all for your teaching the unlearnable!! That would be me!!

[PirateLover]

Kristen, there are no official rules or penalities associated with running up the score in th NFL. When we use the term "frowned upon" it just means that the general sporting population thinks it is bad practice and should not be done. However there is no punishment and teams are free to do as they wish, but generally once you've reached a certain lead, teams will change their strategies or put in 2nd stringers so as not to continue scoring needless points and embarrass the other team.

[Ian]

This is different for me. You said it was an unwritten rule, which means it's really not a rule and not frowned on in any official way. Unofficially, perhaps, and I can agree that it just doesn't seem nice. I also think that people look for things to sneer at with the Patriots that they will easily forgive in other teams. I still don't think this would have even been an issue for you if it wasn't the Pats.

Truth be told, it's not an issue for other teams because other teams don't do it.

Unwritten rules are, in many cases, more important than the written rules. Sportsmanship is something that's taught from Little League on up. Apparently, Bill skipped that class at Evil Genius U.

Ok, so this is a "Help me to understand" question. If the running up the score is frowned upon, doesn't it also mean it isn't a written rule? And is this just feelings? Now that I have been schooled and understand what running up the score is, I want to know the written or just understood rules. If it is something that is frowned upon, than I completely and whole-heartedly agree with you. However, if it is a written rule that no team shall run up the score, than why isn't something done about it? Are there penalties given? Please help me understand?!?

Again, I am asking in the "teach me" sense. Thank you all for your teaching the unlearnable!! That would be me!!

It's really all about sportsmanship. You don't humiliate another team and run up the score on them, because it's classless and wrong. I don't think the NFL feels they need a rule on it, because everyone except Belichek gets it.

The stories on ESPN are clear. He's explicitly doing it on purpose because he's having a temper tantrum about being outed as a cheater.

And yesterday's game was made even worse by the fact that he insulted a Hall of Fame coach who's universally regarded as one of the greatest (and classiest) head coaches of all time. Heck, Gibbs wouldn't even say anything bad about the way Belichek treated them!! Although his team certainly had something to say about it.

The ironic thing is is that Belichek may think he's bulletproof in all this, but it could very easily bite him down the road. Wait until his Hall of Fame ballot comes up and see how quickly the sportswriters are ready to send him to Canton.

[dolphinmickey9170]

Thanks, Ian and PirateLover! I appreciate your helping me understand. Since you put it that way, things seem clearer as to what you were saying. I now understand what you are saying.

[goofhook]

Just to bring another side in ( don't know if someone mentioned it, because everyone wrote about 5 paragraphs ) but how could the Patriots manage to score all the points on the Redskins? I think the D just gave up, and to a point where the Dolphins could of probably put up 50 points.

[goofhook]

I forogt how to edit a post, but the only thing the skins could really do good is stop the run, and knock you out with their safties. So, I think the Pats made the right decision. ( I make these kinds of decisions of running up the score in Madden too. )

[JPL]

There is only 1 occaision in the NFL where running up the score is acceptable and that the final game of the season if you know your playoff position relies on the point differential tie breaker and this is so unlikely to happen that it would take a major alignment of the planets.

For those of you who regularly watch football you understand the concept of taking a knee. How many times is a team up by more than 8 points at the end of the game get the ball in either field goal range or in the red zones on downs. What do they do? Take a knee and relax and let the clock run out. If there is more time left in the game you take out your starters and rest them to prevent injuries and help out the morale of your 2nd and 3rd string players by giving them playing time as a reward for their hard work. I hate to wish injuries on anyone but maybe a key player going down will wake up the Pats.

[Epc0tphr34k]

i'm of 2 minds on this. on one hand you don't let off your opponents throat when having a lead. rememebr the monday night game when the buccs were up huge on the colts and let off the gas. on the other hand when you are up like that you can modify your strategy if your not gonna run then run some high percentage pass plays, screens and 5-10 yard slants and come backs. I think the smug looks on brady's face and bellichek's face were a little much. Like i said in a past post the Pats have let success go to their head, they think they are untouchable. They have gone from the lovable everyman to the bully.

[Ian]

They have gone from the lovable everyman to the bully.

Honestly, I think this is why it upsets me so much.

As I mentioned in my original post, I used to really be a Patriots fan. I hotly defended Tom Brady whenever anyone would say he wasn't the best QB in football. I openly admire the Pats franchise and, on numerous occasions, said to friends and family members how I wished the Eagles could be as successful as they were.

Now, though ... I'll take the Eagles losing with class over what the Pats are doing any day of the week.

[goofhook]

Honestly, I think this is why it upsets me so much.

As I mentioned in my original post, I used to really be a Patriots fan. I hotly defended Tom Brady whenever anyone would say he wasn't the best QB in football. I openly admire the Pats franchise and, on numerous occasions, said to friends and family members how I wished the Eagles could be as successful as they were.

Now, though ... I'll take the Eagles losing with class over what the Pats are doing any day of the week.

I'll second that, unless if we lose with class to a team such as the dolphins. ( can't help but keep picking on them. )