Imagineering Right Now

[mcjaco]

I love everest...don't get me wrong....


but are we overestimating the smashing success of this thing?

Not at all. AK's attendance has increased significantly since it's intorduction.

It's good fun....but isn't it really a modernized version of big thunder mountain?

If you consider a themed standard mine train vs. a modern Vekoma with track that allows changes in routes and direction, silent lift high technology, then yes. I, however, would beg to differ.

Has anyone ever been on it where the Yeti was actually working?

Multiple times. It is certainly more impressive when he works.

Can't you get just as big of thrill from rock-n-roller coaster for a fraction of the pricetag?

I wouldn't disagree with this statement. RnRC is an off the shelf Vekoma, that's in three or other parks, they just added theming.

I'm just saying....they spent alot...it apparently gobbled up all the juice at AK for 4 years....four very critical years in the park's development......

The addition of EE was part of the park's development. They knew they needed another major E Ticket. They produced, just that. With the additional attendance, it can now justify ramping up more additions.

but in the end it is a disney "mountain"....a nice ride that provides a thrill....but won't get tickets sold by itself?

Already stated earlier. It has increased attendance, which means it is selling more tickets.

[Ian]

I'm going to have to disagree with the notion that adding Everest caused the recent boost in attendance at AK.

First off, remember that they opened Finding Nemo: The Musical at roughly the same time, so some credit would have to go there too.

Secondly, the entire resort has experienced a huge boost in attendance in the last 12 months due in no small part to the YoaMD celebration. It's only logical to assume that attendance at AK would benefit from that.

The bottom line is that Animal Kingdom is still one of the least popular Disney theme parks. It even ranks significantly behind Disneyland Paris, which is really amazing when you consider the fact that it has Magic Kingdom (the most popular theme park in the world) pulling in potential guests for it.

In fact, the only other Disney theme park (not including Hong Kong) that ranks below AK in terms of attendance is the other Eisner era bomb known as Disney's California Adventure. A park so bad that Disney has basically decided to rebuild it from the ground up.

[mcjaco]

1 MAGIC KINGDOM at Walt Disney World, Lake Buena Vista, FL, USA 17,060,000
2 DISNEYLAND, Anaheim, CA, USA 14,870,000
3 TOKYO DISNEYLAND, Tokyo, Japan 13,906,000
4 TOKYO DISNEYSEA, Tokyo, Japan 12,413,000
5 DISNEYLAND PARIS, Marne-La-Vallee, France 12,000,000
6 EPCOT at Walt Disney World, Lake Buena Vista, FL, USA 10,930,000
7 DISNEY'S HOLLYWOOD STUDIOS at Walt Disney World, Lake Buena V 9,510,000
8 DISNEY'S ANIMAL KINGDOM at Walt Disney World, Lake Buena Vista, FL 9,490,000
9 UNIVERSAL STUDIOS JAPAN, Osaka, Japan 8,713,000
10 EVERLAND, Kyonggi-Do, South Korea 7,200,000
11 UNIVERSAL STUDIOS at Universal Orlando, Orlando, FL 6,200,000
12 SEAWORLD FLORIDA, Orlando, FL, USA 5,800,000
13 DISNEY'S CALIFORNIA ADVENTURE, Anaheim, CA, USA 5,680,000
14 PLEASURE BEACH, Blackpool, UK 5,500,000
15 ISLANDS OF ADVENTURE at Universal Orlando, Orlando, FL, USA 5,430,000
16 OCEAN PARK, Hong Kong, China 4,920,000
17 HAKKEIJIMA SEA PARADISE, Yokohama, Japan * 4,770,000
18 UNIVERSAL STUDIOS HOLLYWOOD, Universal City, CA, USA 4,700,000
19 BUSCH GARDENS TAMPA BAY, Tampa Bay, FL, USA 4,400,000
20 SEAWORLD CALIFORNIA, San Diego, CA, USA 4,260,000
21 HONG KONG DISNEYLAND, Hong Kong, SAR, China 4,150,000
22 TIVOLI GARDENS, Copenhagen, Denmark 4,110,000
23 EUROPA-PARK, Rust, Germany 4,000,000
24 NAGASHIMA SPA LAND, Kuwana, Japan 3,910,000
25 PORT AVENTURA, Salou, Spain 3,700,000

So DHS gets 20,000 more people while having three thrill rides, and AK has two, and you don't think EE has anything to do with it?

I find that hard to believe.

I also love how DCA gets more people through the gates than IOA, but it's considered a failure.

[Ian]

So DHS gets 20,000 more people while having three thrill rides, and AK has two, and you don't think EE has anything to do with it?

I find that hard to believe.

I also love how DCA gets more people through the gates than IOA, but it's considered a failure.

I'm not even sure what that first part means. What would DHS' attendance have to do with AK's attendance? Unless you're looking historically and tell me that DHS's attendance last year was 100,000 more than AK's and now it's only 20,000 more, it's basically irrelevant this conversation.

As far as DCA goes, the attenance numbers are, first and foremost, pathetic when you compare them to the other Disney parks. You can't compare a Disney park with a Universal park. It's like comparing a Benz to a Yugo. Disney has 8 of the top 10 parks and then there's DCA waaaaaaaaaaay down the list. You need to compare it with the other Disney parks, which is what guests are doing and why so many people consider it a flop. When Disney built it do you think they planned for it to have attendance that low?? I think not.

And secondly, it happens to be located directly across from the second most popular theme park on that list. What does it say for DCA that it's unable to leverage that relationship with Disneyland into better attendance than #13?

[lockedoutlogic]

When a recession hits...probably after the current government leaves and stops plugging the holes in the dam for the "good of the party".... (at some point....the pity fest for mortgages has to end and the interest rate will have to be restored...they are trading one bad economic condition for others)

then AK's attendance will fall....i'm willing to bet by a significantly larger percentage than any of the other WDW parks....

All disney parks are inflated right now because they've reaped a good economy for travel over the last 4+ years......

I really think some of AK's numbers are also false because they are the results of people not wanting to fight larger crowds at Magic Kingdom and EPCOT...I really do...call me crazy


Everest is nice....a good ride....but the park needs more.....this can't really be disputed....1 major new addition in the park's first 10 years isn't cutting it.....


not when you shortcut the original park's blueprints

[Ian]

I really think some of AK's numbers are also false because they are the results of people not wanting to fight larger crowds at Magic Kingdom and EPCOT...I really do...call me crazy

Oh, there's no doubt this is true. I totally agree 100%.

Here's a question for all you AK fans out there ... if AK stood alone, without MK, Epcot, and DHS to help draw guests, where do you think it would rank on the attendance list?

[mcjaco]

I'm going to have to disagree with the notion that adding Everest caused the recent boost in attendance at AK.

Perhaps I poorly worded my first repsonse to this. What I was trying to say, was that with only one (maybe two) thrill rides, AK attendance has certainly jumped since EE was added. DHS has three, and it only pulled in 20,000 more guests. Most people look to which park has the newest thrill ride, EE is it.

I won't argue that it's attendance will falter as people stop travelling. And yes, although I go to AK once or twice a visit, I certainly wouldn't be upset if I missed it. Although at this rate, I rank it higher than DHS, of the four parks.

As for IOA, I'm just trying to show the comparisons for theme parks. IOA is, IMO, on par theming wise to anything Disney has put out, except Disney Sea. It's just doesn't have the mass appeal.

I like AK, as I think it's the most well designed park for pulling of the theming. I don't think any other areas in WDW can compare to the levels of detail that Africa and Asia have. It's too bad it just have a lot of substance to draw LOTS of people for return visits.

EE was a step in the right direction. Hopefully with that change, more changes will be made, and a faster pace. Unfortunately, I think many Disney fans (including me) want to see big changes rapidly.

[Grizz16]

Instead of Cars or another Nemo attraction, I'd like a Pinocchio or Alice in Wonderland ride at WDW.

[DisneyFanaticDargon]

Has anyone ever been on it where the Yeti was actually working?

Not quite sure what you're talking about. EVERY time I've been on it the yeti has been working (and by working I mean moving) and I rode it many times over a 9 month period.

[lockedoutlogic]

Not quite sure what you're talking about. EVERY time I've been on it the yeti has been working (and by working I mean moving) and I rode it many times over a 9 month period.

For the first year....it was usually working....

the last four times I rode it....spread out from Jan 07-Nov 07....it was not.....

you'll know if it's working because there is no lights in the room and they have a "strobe light effect" thing going if he's not moving

The yeti has had massive technical problems....this is a widely known thing at this point....

[Aurora]

To tell you the truth, I was way more awed by EE's queue atmosphere and theming than I was with the actual ride. Technically it's impressive, and it looks great from the outside, but nobody but engineers and coaster geeks get off a ride saying "wow, I loved that new Vekoma technology."

It's just missing something. Going backwards fast in the dark doesn't tell a Yeti/Himalayas story. It could be any thrill ride.

Also to tell you the truth, I can't remember whether the Yeti was working or not when I rode it. So maybe he wasn't, and that contributed to my attitude.

[DonnaT103]

I can't believe people are actually comparing DL's Nemo Sub ride to AK's Everest. The Nemo Sub was the most disappointing ride I have ever been on. I couldn't belive that all those people wasted so much time lining up for that ride. It is nothing more than a glorified video. I was so disappointed in it. I had thought it would be a classic Disney automotromic ride simular to the old sub's but with Nemo charaters. Everest is so much better.
The coment that Nemo the Musical opened at the same time as Everest is not true. When we where there in the fall of 06 we went on Everest several times, but there where still construction walls up around the musical area. I don't know when it did open, but it was well after Everest.

[Ian]

The coment that Nemo the Musical opened at the same time as Everest is not true. When we where there in the fall of 06 we went on Everest several times, but there where still construction walls up around the musical area. I don't know when it did open, but it was well after Everest.

I wasn't trying to imply that the rides opened at the exact same time. The point, which you may have missed, is that 2007 attendance numbers (the numbers we're discussing here) were affected by both attractions.

The actual opening dates are irrelvant to the conversation, however, for the record, Expedition Everest officially opened on April 7th, 2006. Finding Nemo the Musical officially opened in January of 2007.

[Marker]

Everyone is entitled to their opinions. And so I am entitled to mine as well.

My opinion is that I seriously wonder if there is ANYTHING they could do at WDW, or within Disney itself, that would be good enough.

For what it's worth:
I like Expedition Everest, and don't believe I have ever see the Yeti not working. And honestly, it really wouldn't have that much effect on my enjoyment of the ride if it weren't working.

I like the Monster's Inc Laugh Floor.

I really don't understand the reluctance to accept Pixar into the Disney fold.

I'm almost 50 years old, and yes I love Pinocchio, Alice In Wonderland, Jungle Book, etc. My kids are in their early to mid twenties, the Disney favorites from their childhood are Little Mermaid, Lion King, etc. And now for younger kids, the Movies and Characters that will be their childhood memories come from Monster's Inc, Cars, etc. If you're intent is to attract kids and families, then you are going to be theming on the more contempory subjects rather than stuff a quarter to a half a century old. When Disneyland was built they didn't them solely on the characters from Steamboat Willy, and the early Silly Symphonies...no, they themed off of the then more contemporary Alice In Wonderland, Davy Crocket, Peter Pan.

No matter what Disney does, we'll never be kids again, and we will never again experience anything at WDW with the wonder of a child. Nothing will never be as awesome as those things first experienced through childhood eyes.

In my simple opinion, I'd rather they bring joy to the eyes of a child, than to me. After all, shouldn't it be about kids and families, and not over critical adults.

Maybe they could create "ReminiscingLand" for all those attractions that no longer appeal to kids, but yet we raise a stick over when they remove them.

But again, just my opinion.

[Aurora]

...My opinion is that I seriously wonder if there is ANYTHING they could do at WDW, or within Disney itself, that would be good enough. ...

No matter what Disney does, we'll never be kids again, and we will never again experience anything at WDW with the wonder of a child. Nothing will ever be as awesome as those things first experienced through childhood eyes.

Marker, I know what you mean. I'm a couple years younger than you and I would agree you, except...

When I told my kids to Disneyland three years ago, there were attractions there that I felt exactly that wonder and that sense of awe walking away from the experience. One of those was the Indiana Jones ride. Just one of the best rides at any Disney park. Another was "Soarin' Over California," which we know later showed up in WDW. And although it wasn't a ride, another was the theming of the activities in the Sorcerers area of the Animation building, which is much more imaginative, mysterious and immersive than the Animation building in WDW.

It isn't that I don't like the new offerings at WDW, or that I don't think they're entertaining. I do. It's that they haven't given me the same feeling -- exactly as you described, like being a kid again. But I did get that feeling, while I was in my 40s, at Disneyland.

[Ian]

Marker, I just want to be clear ... I love Expedition Everest. I'm not criticizing the ride. I think it's terrific.

I'm just trying to point out that it's flawed logic to attribute all of AK's attendance boost to it's debut.

In fact, I've yet to see anyone even prove that AK has had an attendance boost.

[lockedoutlogic]

Marker, I just want to be clear ... I love Expedition Everest. I'm not criticizing the ride. I think it's terrific.

I'm just trying to point out that it's flawed logic to attribute all of AK's attendance boost to it's debut.

In fact, I've yet to see anyone even prove that AK has had an attendance boost.

I don't believe it has had an actual attendance boost as compared to the rest of WDW...which has been maxed out for several years.....

Nemo replaced Tarzan....which was probably a net gain of very little....as stage shows cater to the demographic who wants to go to stage shows in amusement parks.....it's not as though the thrillseeking types or young adult type demographics are more drawn in by nemo than tarzan....i'm sure many go because it's a pixar title and a newer/ more popular character....but i don't think repeat attendance is much higher...so a little bump is the reality

Everest would have brought people to the park....but after the initial interest in it....AK still has little in the way of attractions....

It will take at least 2 more "E-type" attractions...along with some more focus on wildlife exhibits/attractions....more restuarants and facilities...(an austrailia land could accomplish all of these...with perhaps some enhancements to Africa and Asia)...and a real, actual, children's land to make AK a full day park...IMHO

I just don't see anyway around this....

The same type of addition is probably needed in MGM/Hollywood....perhaps to a lesser extent

If a recession does fall....I believe it would be proactive for disney to throw up massive bucks and construction walls in both the studios and AK at that time.....strengthening the parks -as Iger has stated is his desire - quickly and with less regard to asthetics than they normally would show towards construction...even if it isn't a "stock wise" move

The result might be dipped profits....but when the economy does come back up...as it always will....WDW would be armed with 4 complete parks....a ton of guaranteed repeat business due to the ever expanding DVC....new outside operators/partners in lodging and retail....and then the ability to expand the vision (and income) anyway they want with the hoards of cash that will then decend on them like a florida afternoon thundershower....

piecemeal at EPCOT, MGM, and AK over the last 10 years has really only maintained status quo.....why not try to really take the bull by the horns? (wishfull thinking in some part...I realize)

[Aurora]

For the record, here are the numbers from 2006, from the TEA/ERA Theme Park Attendance Report, same group that put out the 2007 numbers. You can google TEA/ERA for their web sites. Last year's report, for 2006, was the first year TEA/ERA reported attendance figures.

Rank 2006 Park & Location Attendance

1. Magic Kingdom At Walt Disney World, Lake Buena Vista, Florida, Usa 16,640,000
2. Disneyland, Anaheim, California, Usa 14,730,000
3. Tokyo Disneyland, Tokyo, Japan 12,900,000
4. Tokyo Disney Sea, Tokyo, Japan 12,100,000
5. Disneyland Paris, Marne-La-Vallee, France 10,600,000
6. Epcot At Walt Disney World, Lake Buena Vista, Florida, Usa 10,460,000
7. Disney-Mgm Studios Theme Park At Walt Disney World, Lake Buena Vista, Fl, Usa 9,100,000
8. Disney's Animal Kingdom At Walt Disney World, Lake Buena Vista, Florida, Usa 8,910,000
9. Universal Studios Japan, Osaka, Japan 8,500,000
10. Everland, Kyonggi-Do, South Korea 7,500,000
11. Universal Studios At Universal Orlando, Florida 6,000,000
12. Blackpool Pleasure Beach, England 6,000,000
13. Disney's California Adventure, Anaheim, California, Usa 5,950,000
14. Seaworld Florida, Orlando, Florida, Usa 5,740,000
15. Lotte World, Seoul, South Korea 5,500,000
16. Yokohama Hakkeijima Sea Paradise, Yokohama, Japan 5,400,000
17. Islands Of Adventure At Universal Orlando, Orlando, Florida, Usa 5,300,000
18. Hong Kong Disneyland, Hong Kong, Sar, China 5,200,000
19. Universal Studios Hollywood, Universal City, California, Usa 4,700,000
20. Tivoli Gardens, Copenhagen, Denmark 4,396,000
21. Ocean Park, Hong Kong, China 4,380,000
22. Busch Gardens Tampa Bay, Tampa Bay, Florida, Usa 4,360,000
23. Seaworld California, San Diego, California, Usa 4,260,000
24. Europa-Park, Rust, Germany 3,950,000
25. Nagashima Spa Land, Kuwana, Japan 3,910,000

[TheRustyScupper]

. . . Although it has yet to be announced, major investments not too much unlike the one in DCA are coming to Hong Kong Disneyland. Disneyland Paris' Studio park has also had some major improvements added, with more on the way.

1) This is not an Ogre (I mean Iger) choice.
2) This is something he has been forced into.
3) The parks are poor and must be upgraded.
. . . rides are too few
. . . people are not trained
. . . morale among CM's is low
. . . guests stay away due to poor design
. . . newspapers criticize lack of attendance
. . . investors are unhappy with returns
4) For quite some time, Disney has been known for building under performing parks. They have re-defined how to "Mickey Mouse" parks. Under-built were, and still are,
. . . Disney Paris (will NEVER make a profit)
. . . Disney Studios Paris (quonset huts)
. . . California Adventure (pitiful, pitiful disaster)
. . . Hong Kong (too small, too few rides)
. . . MGM-Studios (opened with only 2-rides)
. . . Animal Kingdom (need I say more)

NOTE: With criticism of Rohde, a lot of acreage and a lot of money, but an idea not fulfilled. (No TS eateries in the park, silly themes for attractions that have been already changed, too few attractions, themes that are so esoteric that few understand/recognize them.) He did a good job on somethings, but could have done things better, even with restricted funds. It could have been such a great idea and park.

[StrangeCargo]

TheRustyScupper;
1) This is not an Ogre (I mean Iger) choice.
2) This is something he has been forced into.

I'm just curious how you would know that making the investments into DCA and Paris and Hong Kong were not Iger's choice. It's pretty clear to me in reading interviews with the man that he is very much into the idea of fixing what is wrong with Disney's parks now before making a major commitment to building a new park. It seems to me that you are missing something.

If Iger were against the idea of investing into the parks, as you imply (he was "forced") would we have gotten the billion-dollar DCA makeover? And what about Disney's remarkable decison to forego it's royalties in Hong Kong for several years in order to turn around and invest that same money that it could have pocketed, so that it can build new major attractions in the park. Was this not Iger's decision too, or was he "forced" into this bold decision as well? A bold move like that is still a bold move, whether one is forced into or not, yes?

No matter what you imply, as the president of the company, Iger has just as much choice over where to lead the complany as Eisner did. He can choose to follow the same mistakes that Eisner made toward the end of his tenure, or he can choose to make a different path. All the evidence I have seen leads me to not share your bleak view of the company's future.