Disney to expand monorail?

[GrumpyFan]

You also have to realize that the monorail just isn't as efficient as far as moving people. You can't pull out of the way if there is a problem, you can't just throw extra trains on the track when it's busier, it's just not feasible.

I would tend to agree with you on this. However, there are other mass/rapid transit systems in development that are better capable of overcoming some of these issues. Some of these newer systems are even less expensive than the monorail.

[Ian]

From any sane business vantage point, that would just be stupid. You'd also have to build stations, reconfigure entances to accomodate the stations.... Give it up, it's not going to happen. Do you want to pay $150/day to pay for it?

Just to be clear, I am not in anyway saying that A. I think this is actually going to happen or B. that it's money that Disney would be wise to spend. I was merely pointing out that the $2 billion figure was a relatively realistic cost figure.

Also, not to state the obvious, but the $100 million per mile costs is a fully inclusive cost ... it's not just track costs. It's the total costs of the project divided by the total mileage.

I would have thought that would be self-evident, but I guess not.

In regards to the efficacy of a monorail system for transporting people, I disagree with your assessment and, quite obviously, others do too, since there are numerous, functional monorail systems out there and many, many others proposed and in the works.

[gerald72]

It should be expanded up the entire east coast. That would cut down on transportation costs.

[gerald72]

There is no doubt in my mind that this option is revisted quite often by Disney but the cost always seems to shoot it down. If it was cheap enough and efficient enough it would have been done years ago. The biggest obstacle to the project is the terrain they would have to build on which really adds to the cost per mile to get it up to code.

The Wilderness Lodge is proof of the expense since the Epcot Monorail line passes relatively close to that areas and they didn't choose to build a short spur rto connect it to the line. I know some people will say it doesn't fit the theming but it doesn't fit the Poly or GF theming either. So if they didn't build a short expansion to a Deluxe resort why would they exand it further.

If this is proof that it is too expensive, then why is there a monorail in the first place?
Why does it run to the Poly and GF? Why does it connect MK to TTC? Why did they build the monorail to Epcot?
Did building a monorail system suddenly become expensive in the mid-80s?

[mjstaceyuofm]

Did building a monorail system suddenly become expensive in the mid-80s?

No. Eisner took the helm in the 80's. While he grew the company to unprecedented levels, the focus of the company shifted to the almighty $$$$$. If it couldn't produce a quick, tangible ROI it was shunned. Thus no monorail expansion past the existing tracks. The GF was built on the existing monorail track to leverage an already existing asset in the monorail.

[CaptainDisney]

I'm wondering, Peter, if you can remember the name of the cast member you heard this from. As was mentioned, front line cast members are not likely to know about any kind of announcement of this scale much before the media/public.

My personal opinion, as a monorail cast member, is that the system will never be expanded. It would buck every trend at WDW now for many years. Of course the monorail was expensive in 1971 and 1982, and probably not much more expensive (when adjusted for inflation) than it would be now. There are an astronomical number of practical problems with expanding the current system, though:

1) The current trains are going on 20 years old. Their reliability slips every year (have you noticed more monorail down time recently?) New trains are reportedly not even in the works. Various systems are constantly being updated, but the trains themselves are old. They cost $12 million apiece in 1991.

2) There is one monorail shop with enough room for 10 trains. We have 12 trains, so even now, two of them must "stay out" each night. New monorail lines require more trains and more places to store/maintain the trains.

3) The cost has already been mentioned, and it is extremely prohibitive. Even with fuel prices as high as they are, we are talking about an absurd amount of time before the monorail "earns back" its initial cost. Remember, elecricity costs money, too, even if Disney is producing some of it. And the electricity runs continuously for the better part of the day over 14+ miles of track.

4) Finally, there is no logical place to connect the monorail. People mention the TTC. Unfortunately, there are many problems with that, including the fact that there isn't enough space there. Also, consider if there were an extension from the TTC to another park (maybe the Studios). This would put more stress on the current resort beam, which management seems worried about just from the new DVC going up. Peak times could not be accomodated on that beam if an extension were made by monorail to another park. There are other connection scenarios too, of course, but none of them are feasible. Too many transfers.

There are more problems, but this post is already getting too long! Of course, these issues only address an addition to the current system. A completely new kind of transit or a seperate monorail is actually more plausible in my opinion. Going back to the trends, though, it doesn't seem like something Disney will do. Hey, there's always outsourcing! Now that wouldn't surprise me

Again, these are just my personal observations from working there - nothing from "up above." But speaking of that, none of my managers has ever even given the essence of a hint that there could be an expansion. Sorry!

[johnO]

I think we'll see busses running on alternative fuel before we see any change in transportation......

[TheRustyScupper]

1) Sure, the monorail expansion rumor surfaces often.
2) But, people forget to ask one simple question
. . . why would WDW need a monorail expansion?

3) It makes zero sense to expend ANY funds to expand a monorail.
. . . it would not generate more guest visits
. . . it would increase park hopping, which is not good
. . . it would add fixed, instead of variable transpiration expense
. . . it would use capital funds that could build rides
. . . it would decrease executive bonuses

[big blue and hairy]

Just to be clear, I am not in anyway saying that A. I think this is actually going to happen or B. that it's money that Disney would be wise to spend. I was merely pointing out that the $2 billion figure was a relatively realistic cost figure.

Also, not to state the obvious, but the $100 million per mile costs is a fully inclusive cost ... it's not just track costs. It's the total costs of the project divided by the total mileage.

I would have thought that would be self-evident, but I guess not.

In regards to the efficacy of a monorail system for transporting people, I disagree with your assessment and, quite obviously, others do too, since there are numerous, functional monorail systems out there and many, many others proposed and in the works.

I was just using your dollar amount. That wasn't pointed at you specifically. No, the entire system being that amount isn't self evident. The design possibilities of the stations, the ground condition in those areas could have a huge bearing on the cost. Numerous is a little bit of an exageration, since the vast majority of cities do not have them. Proposed is far from being put into practice. And generally, if you look at the areas that are using monorails, it is to relieve ridiculous congestion on the roads. That's not the case at WDW. It just doesn't make fiscal sense.

[big blue and hairy]

1) Sure, the monorail expansion rumor surfaces often.
2) But, people forget to ask one simple question
. . . why would WDW need a monorail expansion?

Exactly, the usual reason is "because it's cool" so is free admission, but that's not going to happen.

3) It makes zero sense to expend ANY funds to expand a monorail.
. . . it would not generate more guest visits
. . . it would increase park hopping, which is not good
. . . it would add fixed, instead of variable transpiration expense
. . . it would use capital funds that could build rides
. . . it would decrease executive bonuses

As I said earlier, you'll see hydrogen, or electric busses before a new monorail. There is absolutely nothing that good that would come out oif expanding the monorail, it would just make the current one less special.

[Ian]

I'm not 100% certain that they'll stay married to the busses forever.

I don't think we'll ever see a "monorail expansion", per se, but I do think there's a chance that you'll see some newer, slightly more practical form of mass transit come into play.

There's been a lot of talk floating around that Disney was interested in the new PRT systems that are gaining popularity, so there's an option they might be able to pull off. Something that ran over the ground and not elevated like a monorail would definitely keep costs down somewhat.

As far as the possible route or configuration, I highly doubt it would directly link into the existing monorail line. As Captain Disney pointed out, there are tons of logistical problems with that.

My guess would be an entirely new, self-contained loop that services DHS and Animal Kingdom. You figure Epcot is connected to DHS by boat and also to the existing monorail system. So techincally, if they connected DHS to the Kingdom, you could travel the entire resort with no bus service needed.

However, the most likely scenario is the busses are here to stay. I'd say 90% it's busses all the way and 10% they try something new at some point. Bottom line, though, it would have to have some sort of reasonable payback period for them to consider it.

[lindique]

I remember reading somewhere that the Magic Kingdom was deliberately built across water to increase the amount of time that it would take to go from your car or hotel to the entrance gate. The monorail or ferry ride was more than just a ride - it was almost part of the entertainment back then. As there was only one park at that time, I believe they were trying to make Disney World a multi-day destination by increasing the transportation time so you couldn't see the park all in one day. (They had a couple of very expensive hotels to fill!) I don't remember where I read this, but it sort of makes sense - the monorail at Disneyland in California is definitely a ride, not a means of transportation.

[big blue and hairy]

Transporters! Boy would that make the most of a park hopper!

Of course, it would have to start off in Futureworld.

[NYC WDW Fan]

I'm wondering, Peter, if you can remember the name of the cast member you heard this from. As was mentioned, front line cast members are not likely to know about any kind of announcement of this scale much before the media/public.

Hey Cap,

I don't remember his name, and don't know if I would mention it even if I did, not knowing if it would get him in trouble. The only other info I have is that he worked the Contemporary station.

To me, considering rising fuel costs, the idea of an expanded monorail system using electricity created from an on-site methane plant makes a bit of sense to me. It would seem Disney would be getting on track as leaders again in real world tech as opposed to just entertainment.

In keeping with the EPCOT initial theme of improving modern society, having what amounts to a "closed loop" system (human waste/garbage=electrity=runs transportation=more guests visiting $pending money, eating and pooping creating waste/garbage) sets an example for other societies/cities as to how to maximize resources.

Plus . . . if done right, instead of a capital investment would they be able to write off a portion of the cost as R&D and sell/advise the tech for other growing areas that would be interested in the idea?

Disney, when at thei best, has been multi-faceted in their approach, almost like the space program. Kinda like " not only did we get to the Moon, but look at all this other cool stuff we got out of it as well!"

[Ed]

There's been talk for years about running a Monorail line from the resort to the airport.
The wife of a very good friend of mine was a high level exec @ WDW and had spoken of it more than once.

Close, but no cigar.

What has been kicked around for years is a form of "light rail" system - - basically a commuter train running on surface tracks - - running to and from the airport, which Disney supported and even offered land on which to build a station. The idea has been shot down several times by the other local heavyweights - - Universal, SeaWorld, and the Convention Center - - because the proposed route would only directly benefit Disney. Alternate routes have been proposed that would serve the I-Drive areas, but those have been shot down by The Mouse That Roars. Classic Catch-22.

As I said earlier, you'll see hydrogen, or electric busses before a new monorail.

Much more likely scenario. The airport and SeaWorld are already running buses that run on hydrogen, the city government is experimenting with a few hydrogen-powered vehicles, and a hydrogen "gas station" has been built to serve them.

[future_imagineer]

I highly doubt any monorail expansion will be coming in the near future, at least... it's not going to save Disney any money in any way. Remember, the energy has to be generated somewhere, which, in this case, is most likely the RCID power plant, and it's not environmentally if it burns a non-hydrogen substance.

[VolMickey]

Saw the video of the new Mark VII monorail red being placed into service in DL. Very cool looking.

Anyone know when the new models are heading to WDW?

[lockedoutlogic]

No rank and file Disney employee is EVER privy to any development information unless they steal it in an act of corporate espionage.....

trust me.....people have this tendency to make themselves and important cog in the machine "in the know" almost the minute they get a nametag.....

but it doesn't work that way.....

Disney controls its information better than the CIA.....and then THEY call the press and "leak" in in 99.9% of the cases....

and then.....if and only if it is necessary....they will brief the rank and file that might be affected.....


that's how it goes.....sorry if you got your hopes up.....

perhaps they do have some sort of new transit in the works.....but i highly doubt it is an expansion to the monorail line.....though many of us would welcome it......

the only thing i could ever conceivably see them do is rerout the epcot line to inclue yacht beach, boardwalk, swan and dolphin....but beyond that....i just don't see it....

i think the next big thing will be a light rail line running roughly from Ak to downtown.....

but we are probably light years from that....

[Snowgod]

It has been said in the past that Disney had already placed footings for monorail expansion. Wouldn't that save them money having done the prep work for some expansion.

[GrumpyFan]

It has been said in the past that Disney had already placed footings for monorail expansion. Wouldn't that save them money having done the prep work for some expansion.

IF it's true, sure, it would save money, but
I've never seen or heard this before. What's your source?