Disney Sells Land at Disney World to Four Seasons

[big blue and hairy]

One thing I'm wondering. Was there any mention of Disney de-annexing the land? If not, and it is still park of the RCDA, then Disney does retain some control over how it is used. Also, there may well be contractual restrictions on what Four Seasons can and can not do.

[ayeckley]

(it seems a nice gentleman/woman from ohio has taken me too literally )

Oh yeah? How can you possibly know that? Do you have any *proof* that I'm nice?

Sorry - the sarcasm was a little too subtle for me to pick up the first time around, but I see it now...

[Figment78]

Walt has to be rolling in his grave. All he did to acquire the land for the Florida Project and now this.

Actually he's rolling around in his cyrogenically frozen block of ice out in space...

(Can you believe that I JUST had someone tell me this the other day? what an old rumor!)

[MegaDisney]

I think this is a smart decision. If they have no plans to develop the land then why not?

[JPL]

I have to look at this from the logical side. The land was sold to Four Seasons to attract higher income guests to WDW. These guests want services and amenities that WDW does not and can not provide. So Disney goes out and get a name these guests know and trust. They sell off a small parcel of land that was basically useless to the company. In return they get wealthy guests spending money on big ticket experiences like personal guided tours, signature dining, and high priced souvenirs. It's probably one of the smartest decisions Disney has made lately.

[Ian]

Folks ... it's 298 acres ... what's that like 1% of the overall resort???

Let's not get our knickers in twist and have Walt rolling in his grave again.

This is a non-event.

[lockedoutlogic]

Folks ... it's 298 acres ... what's that like 1% of the overall resort???

Let's not get our knickers in twist and have Walt rolling in his grave again.

This is a non-event.

It's 90% a non-event.....

the other 10% is that it has not been done before.....

for my part....i'm not so much concentrated on the four seasons getting their own fiefdom.....but more to see if this alters the monorail resort area.....the poly....but mostly the grand.....

the grand will pale in comparison from a service standpoint with the four season a mile away.....

[Vito]

It's 90% a non-event.....

the other 10% is that it has not been done before.....

What 10% hasn't been done? There are already a bunch of non-Disney-operated hotels on property... Dolphin, Swan, and the Hotel Plaza Blvd hotels.

for my part....i'm not so much concentrated on the four seasons getting their own fiefdom.....but more to see if this alters the monorail resort area.....the poly....but mostly the grand.....

the grand will pale in comparison from a service standpoint with the four season a mile away.....

I'm not seeing any appreciable impact. The people who will be staying at the four seasons are generally a different set of people. For the most part, the Four Seasons will be a separate entity from the Disney hotels. The Grand Floridian will still have it's customers - people who want a more upscale environment but still want to stay at a Disney hotel, people who want the convenience of the monorail loop and the magical "Disney Touch."

The people who stay at the Four Seasons are more likely to be people who normally might not even stay on Disney property at all.

If the Four Seasons was going to build a hotel/resort in the Orlando area, why wouldn't Disney want that hotel to have easy access to their offerings? Disney gets a two-fold benefit from this. They not only get the money from the sale of land, but they get the upscale clients that you can't cater to at the Grand Floridian. As upscale as the GF is for a Disney hotel, it's still mostly families and contains a large percentage of "average Disney guests." The new Four Seasons resort will not have very many of those.

The Four Seasons is a way for Disney to tap into a market that they just can't offer themselves. Believe me, Four Seasons and the Grand Floridian cater, for the most part, to a different guest looking for a significantly different hotel experience.

[Grizz16]

Eh, unless they build a hotel smack dab in the middle of MK, Epcot or something like that.....I don't care.

[Tekneek]

If they start having more of them built that are easily seen from within the parks, it would certainly take away from the "look" and "theming" that they were once so proud of. Hopefully they will be able to restrain themselves a bit.

[lockedoutlogic]

What 10% hasn't been done? There are already a bunch of non-Disney-operated hotels on property... Dolphin, Swan, and the Hotel Plaza Blvd hotels.

I'm not seeing any appreciable impact. The people who will be staying at the four seasons are generally a different set of people. For the most part, the Four Seasons will be a separate entity from the Disney hotels. The Grand Floridian will still have it's customers - people who want a more upscale environment but still want to stay at a Disney hotel, people who want the convenience of the monorail loop and the magical "Disney Touch."

The people who stay at the Four Seasons are more likely to be people who normally might not even stay on Disney property at all.

If the Four Seasons was going to build a hotel/resort in the Orlando area, why wouldn't Disney want that hotel to have easy access to their offerings? Disney gets a two-fold benefit from this. They not only get the money from the sale of land, but they get the upscale clients that you can't cater to at the Grand Floridian. As upscale as the GF is for a Disney hotel, it's still mostly families and contains a large percentage of "average Disney guests." The new Four Seasons resort will not have very many of those.

The Four Seasons is a way for Disney to tap into a market that they just can't offer themselves. Believe me, Four Seasons and the Grand Floridian cater, for the most part, to a different guest looking for a significantly different hotel experience.

Yo, V....

Did you know that Disney still owns the land for the Swan, Dolphin, and Hotel Plaza Boulevard?
Strange but true.....all the outside vendors are renters.....as the outside restaurants and shops at Downtown are as well.....


Second.....the grand tried for about 10 years to cater to the "luxury" crowd.....I happen to know they pushed this in employee meetings because i just happened to be in the meetings....

but they couldn't do it......they aren't structured to do it.....so there could be a change with a true luxury operator placed in the middle of WDW....

the grand has tried for a long time to be both "luxury"....and "disney".....true luxury hotels cannot be disney hotels.....you can't have kids screaming and running through the lobby in bathing suits and be given the highest ratings.....you can't have employees drawn from a labor pool with no special training, education, or experience....guests are not "shut out" of their own restaurants in favor of anyone who can call a generic reservation line six months in advance.....

can't be done......

my point now is that i think four seasons will pull those looking for more than just an expensive bill and an adjective in the name of the hotel.....true luxury in accomodations

that segment will go to the seasons......and the grand can perhaps go a little more disney.....and still be the flagship for disney.....

that was where i was going......and my "opinions" are based on experiences working in the trenches in a supervisor capacity...not just random quips

[Ian]

I have to agree with you about the Grand. It's definitely not a true luxury hotel, the way business or seasoned, high-end travels define true luxury.

I mean the linens are about average, nothing special. There are no real extra perks for staying there. The rooms aren't significantly nicer than in other Disney hotels. Even the pools are pretty blah.

And, as you mentioned, the CM's at the Grand are just CM's. They're not special or highly trained. They're just normal old, front-line CM's.

The only reason the GF can command the nightly rates it does are because of the 3 L's of real estate ... location, location, location. It's right next door to the Magic Kingdom, otherwise it'd be a 3 star hotel at best.

I can definitely tell you that the Four Seasons will be pulling the true high-end travelers (and probably some convention business, too) away from the Disney "deluxes."

[big blue and hairy]

The only reason the GF can command the nightly rates it does are because of the 3 L's of real estate ... location, location, location. It's right next door to the Magic Kingdom, otherwise it'd be a 3 star hotel at best.

On this point, you are wrong. The Grand Floridian is a 4 Diamond Hotel, because it earned AAA's Four Diamond Award. It's not given out to just anyone and it's not given out because you can see a castle.

While I won't argue that the Grand Floridian is the Four Seasons, let's not get carried away, it is a Four Diamond Resort for many years running.

[EpcotChic23]

I have mixed feelings on this but the only thing I can say about it is this is... I stayed in a Four Seasons on Maui for my honeymoon and their customer service was as high as WDW is. They really know how to treat their guest like gold. So I think they will continue some aspects of a Disney Hotel. I guess if they were going to do this with any hotel chain I am very glad it was the Four Seasons.

[Ian]

On this point, you are wrong. The Grand Floridian is a 4 Diamond Hotel, because it earned AAA's Four Diamond Award. It's not given out to just anyone and it's not given out because you can see a castle.

While I won't argue that the Grand Floridian is the Four Seasons, let's not get carried away, it is a Four Diamond Resort for many years running.

Well first of all, let's remember that the rating system goes up to five diamonds, not four. That means that the GF is a 2nd tier hotel that charges 1st tier rates (due to the aforementioned "location, location, location").

In addition, if memory serves, the GF was once a five diamond resort and lost it's fifth diamond.

Lastly, I'm quite certain the Four Seasons will be a five diamond resort.

Okay so maybe it was an overstatement to say it was "a 3 star resort at best", but the point is (as I said before) it's a 2nd tier hotel with 1st tier prices ... not due to the amenities and service, but due to its location.

[Vito]

Yo, V....

Did you know that Disney still owns the land for the Swan, Dolphin, and Hotel Plaza Boulevard?
Strange but true.....all the outside vendors are renters.....as the outside restaurants and shops at Downtown are as well.....


Second.....the grand tried for about 10 years to cater to the "luxury" crowd.....I happen to know they pushed this in employee meetings because i just happened to be in the meetings....

but they couldn't do it......they aren't structured to do it.....so there could be a change with a true luxury operator placed in the middle of WDW....

the grand has tried for a long time to be both "luxury"....and "disney".....true luxury hotels cannot be disney hotels.....you can't have kids screaming and running through the lobby in bathing suits and be given the highest ratings.....you can't have employees drawn from a labor pool with no special training, education, or experience....guests are not "shut out" of their own restaurants in favor of anyone who can call a generic reservation line six months in advance.....

can't be done......

my point now is that i think four seasons will pull those looking for more than just an expensive bill and an adjective in the name of the hotel.....true luxury in accomodations

that segment will go to the seasons......and the grand can perhaps go a little more disney.....and still be the flagship for disney.....

that was where i was going......and my "opinions" are based on experiences working in the trenches in a supervisor capacity...not just random quips

I agree with ALL of that right there. My point is that this isn't a big deal, nor is it unprecedented. Disney has already sold off quite a bit of land that it originally owned. Celebration, for example. But there are also a few other areas that have been sold off. I believe that the resort was once close to 30,000 acres, but now stands at approximately 25,000+ acres.

And they've also got non-Disney operated hotels on Disney property.

So my point is that what they're doing with the Four Seasons is nothing truly groundbreaking, other than the fact that they're combining these two things (selling a small portion of land, and having a non-Disney operated hotel on - or now adjacent to - Disney owned property). And I additionally do not see this move taking revenue away from Disney or "stealing" guests away from properties such as the Grand Floridian.

It's a win-win for Disney. They get a huge chunk of money for the land sale (and we don't know the terms of the sale agreement, either, as the land will still be, as far as I know, part of Reedy Creek, meaning they'll have to follow any restrictions that Disney sets up), and they get the added benefit of the wealthy guests that stay there spending their money on the more extravagant offerings that Disney provides. Again... win-win in my eyes.

[ibrowse17]

If Disney needs this to tap into the luxury crowd, are they saying the GF and other delux resorts are not so delux?? Does that mean they are now some sort of super moderate?? Does that mean it will bring their prices down?? Somehow, I think not

[Vito]

If Disney needs this to tap into the luxury crowd, are they saying the GF and other delux resorts are not so delux?? Does that mean they are now some sort of super moderate?? Does that mean it will bring their prices down?? Somehow, I think not

That's not really the point. For 95% (or more?) of all Disney guests, the Deluxe resorts are definitely Deluxe. No question about it. But Four Seasons will likely be in a class all its own.

Look at it this way, for most people, a Lexus, Cadillac, Lotus, etc are luxury cars. Nobody would deny that they are a luxury that most Americans can't afford. But then, in a class all their own are cars like a Ferrari Enzo, Porche Carrera GT, or a Bugatti Veyron. Those cars sell for over $500,000.

So there's luxury, and then there's extravagant luxury. While Grand Floridian is deluxe by most standards, there's always something that's more extravagant.

When you see the prices at the Four Seasons, you'll understand what I mean.

[ibrowse17]

Right... I'll just keep driving my Suburban then, thank you very much

[Vito]

Right... I'll just keep driving my Suburban then, thank you very much

Exactly