Brett Favre, ughhhh.....

[Ian]

Chemistry may be an intangible,but it is real.

There's no doubt that this is true. That's why the team with the most talent is rarely the one that wins it all, because they're not necessarily the team with the best chemistry.

Look at the Phillies this year ... they're clearly not the most talented team in baseball across the roster, but they played together as a team and they won as a team.

If talent was the only dictator of winning, the Yankees would win the World Series every single year.

[Coach48]

I hate to sound like I'm gloating because as a Jets fan thats the last thing I would ever do,but this is starting to be a lot of fun.This is finally a team worth getting excited over.Brett looks like he's having fun out there,his receivers are catching almost everything he throws their way,we are starting to see a two headed monster in the Jones-Washington tandem.The defese is playing well.All things coming together at the right time with a favorable schedule ahead.

[Jeff G]

Yesterdays game was another example of my point on Favre. The Jets were doing well early in the first half running against the Broncos but when they got down they abandoned the run (way to early) and put it on Favre's shoulders. He failed to carry the team again. The two weeks prior Favre looked good but mainly because the run game worked early and through the entire game allowing Favre to be serviceable.

To offer a different opinion, becasue of Favre's inability to convert any passes early & a turnover he may have put the team in a position to have to abondaon the run. Regardless, it was another awful game for Favre.

On a side note, I would be a little worried Jet fans. Last year Favre started strong and played well but faded late in the season when the weather turned cold. Was yesterday an indication he'll do the same this year?

[Coach48]

I dont think the weather had anything to do with it.You had a Broncos team coming off an embarassing loss to the Raiders and a Jets team coming off a win against the unbeaten Titans.The quintessential letdown game.This may sound strange,but I'm glad they played so poorly in all phases of the game.If it had just been the offense or the D or special teams you may have wanted to start worrying about one particular unit being to blame.The team as a whole playing so poorly goes to my theory of letdown.Let's see how they respond to a cross country trip to play a team they should beat this week.

[Ian]

Okay ... I just need to publicly state what a complete sham it is that Brett Favre is going to the Pro Bowl this year.

He has been the very definition of a mediocre QB ... look at these numbers:

He's barely thrown for 3,000 yards (3,052 ... good enough to rank him just 12th in the NFL). He's tossed only 21 TD's and he has 17 interceptions (this is the only stat he leads the NFL in!!). He has a QB rating of 86.5 (15th in the NFL) and he's averaging a paltry 218 yards per game (16th).

Now compare those numbers to Phillip Rivers'.

He's thrown for 3,515 yards (5th). He's thrown 28 touchdowns (tied for 1st) and only 11 picks. His QB rating is an NFL-best 101.4. And yet he isn't in the Pro Bowl and Favre is???

Please ... someone explain this to me??

And before someone says, "Well his team is winning and the Chargers aren't!" then fine ... I'll still say that Chad Pennington or Matt Cassel would have been a better choice. Both have better numbers than Favre does.

He went on his over-inflated and inexplicable reputation and it irks me to no end.

This guy is SO overrated it's ridiculous!!!

[Pagan]

Agreed...Pennington is smoking Favre this year, and no mention.

It's a sham.

[bucky at disney]

And....any bets that he actually GOES to the Pro Bowl? I bet he doesn't even make the trip!

[Pagan]

That's okay, in two weeks when Pennington comes back to the Meadowlands and sends Favre and the Jets home for the winter, I'm sure the playoffs will feel alot better than the pro Bowl.

[gueli]

To Start-
I am glad Chad Pennington is doing so well. He was and is a class act. Even if he beats us & goes to the playoffs- I wish him well.
But pro-bowl calliber?
Chad will leave his heart & soul on the field. But anything other than a short to mid-range pass... well just look at the trajectory. Simply put he does not have a cannon. Any team that playes 8 in the box, and keeps it tight on the recievers (including the TE)- can make it really tough on him.

And yes Ian- I know how much you hate him- but one stat you don't mention- compleation percentage, where bret ranks 2nd. Is he the best QB in the league- no. Is he a major upgrade from where the jets were- YES. Is he one of the most talked about QB's in the league- Every week on sportscenter, again yes.
Pro-bowl- I do not believe he is having a pro bowl year- but is he overrated? Depends on your point of view.
Can he throw the deep ball? Can he throw bad passes? Can he Zing it in there? Can he throw across his body (the way youre not supposed to)? Is he a good QB? I believe all these answers are yes.

and one last comment-
Pagan- are you sure the jets won't just shoot themselves in the foot this week and make that game moot?
I am A jet fan-
and we have collapsed sooo many times in the past, I cannot believe that we won't do it again. And again,and again. Did bret make this happen? probably not.

Too all, good luck
Happy holidays.
Gueli

[Missy_Mouses_Dad]

I am a Packer fan, bleeding green and gold. Brett Favre is annoying. Yesterday he made is annual, "These may be my last games" speech. I am to the point now where I wish he would just go away. He did not lead the Jets to anything. They have a very good defense, a re-invigorated runningback, and the Jets are proving they can win in spite of Favre. His 17 picks are a prime example of his ability to throw a game away. It's all about Brett, always has been.

[Pagan]

To Start-
I am glad Chad Pennington is doing so well. He was and is a class act. Even if he beats us & goes to the playoffs- I wish him well.
But pro-bowl calliber?
Chad will leave his heart & soul on the field. But anything other than a short to mid-range pass... well just look at the trajectory. Simply put he does not have a cannon. Any team that playes 8 in the box, and keeps it tight on the recievers (including the TE)- can make it really tough on him.

Completely disagree with you bro. Look at the way he's been playing this year. Let's match him up against Favre.

Favre - 17 INTs, Penny has 6.
Favre - 3,052 yards, Penny has 3,218
Favre - 6.77 yards per attempt, Penny has 7.81

Apparently, Brett is the new king of "dink and dunk". I've seen Penny throw some deep balls on a rope this year. He hasn't fluttered one pass. Maybe the arm has healed sufficiently, and maybe he was rushed back into service with the Jets after not one by two operations?

And yes Ian- I know how much you hate him- but one stat you don't mention- compleation percentage, where bret ranks 2nd.

And that is because of the dink and dunk. Penny's RIGHT behind him in that catagory, 66.3% to Brett's 67.6...and he's averaging over a yard more per pass attempt.

and one last comment-
Pagan- are you sure the jets won't just shoot themselves in the foot this week and make that game moot?
I am A jet fan-
and we have collapsed sooo many times in the past, I cannot believe that we won't do it again.

Ah bro...but I'm a Dolphin fan...and it's December.

It'll be who wants to lose MORE.

[Missy_Mouses_Dad]

Thank you Pagan...you made my day. I am fed up with hearing how great Favre is. Remember for all he has done stats-wise, he is still #1 in interceptions for his career. That translates to missed scoring opportunities, defensive touchdowns, and in the case of the NY Giants last season, throwing away the NFC title on hallowed Lambeau in a temp below 32 degrees, where Favre was supposed to be Super-QB. He did some great things in GB, but so did Bart Starr, who won multiple championships in his career. Class-wise, Favre isn't anywhere near Starr.

[Ian]

And yes Ian- I know how much you hate him- but one stat you don't mention- compleation percentage, where bret ranks 2nd.

Completion percentage alone isn't a particularly significant stat, which is why I left it out.

I think QB rating is a much more comprehensive view of how a quarterback is playing.

I am a Packer fan, bleeding green and gold. Brett Favre is annoying. Yesterday he made is annual, "These may be my last games" speech. I am to the point now where I wish he would just go away. He did not lead the Jets to anything. They have a very good defense, a re-invigorated runningback, and the Jets are proving they can win in spite of Favre. His 17 picks are a prime example of his ability to throw a game away. It's all about Brett, always has been.

Yeah, that's one of my issues with the whole "Brett Favre has revived the Jets!" thing. People forget how many other big free-agents they signed in the off season, particularly on the offensive line.

Remember for all he has done stats-wise, he is still #1 in interceptions for his career. That translates to missed scoring opportunities, defensive touchdowns, and in the case of the NY Giants last season, throwing away the NFC title on hallowed Lambeau in a temp below 32 degrees, where Favre was supposed to be Super-QB.

Right, this to me is the most maddening thing with Favre. He's a "gunslinger", which apparently means he throws games away by tossing pics at the worst possible moment.

[gueli]

Hi all,
See Pagan We did it again...
Truth is at this point I hope the jets loose to Miami. Why?
Because I hate New England more. I am also much more happy for pennington stiffing it to this (jets) coaching Staff.
0-4 on the west coast. The entire team has collapsed. Apparently the questioning on Jenkins health...well lets just say that it is obvious that the 16 game schedule is too much for this jets team.

I still wont back down from my points on pennington & the pro-bowl. And yes I still AGREE that Bret Favre should also not be there.
But I also feel that bret is not the only reason the jets SHOULD NOT be in the playoffs. Their team has compleatly unraveled.
The coaching staff....(edited for family content)... Should be fired. Alright Maybe give them 1 more year, but I am so sick of this. When was the last time a NYJ team won on the west coast. Heck when was the last time we could beat the Raiders? a 3-14 team with a backup QB, a makeshift line (offense) and nothing to play for. This Loss lands SQUARELY on the shoulders of the COACHING staff. There is something basically wrong with this group !!!

Yeah, Lets go Interception King.
Yeah, lets go pourous- cant stop the run or pass- bend and fall apart defense.
Yeah- special teams (except for Leon Washington) - for consistantly being faked out on every fake punt this year !!
Lets go Eric Man- "genious" - geni - the geni who can let sooo many teams pull out a victory against this once again pathetic group.

Yeah bret- could this be the final year (and many including Ian hope so) or will I string another team along untill training camp - Favre

Sigh.
Win loose die or tie- I still root for them. Once again they have died. I just hope they can finish this now pathetic season with a loss. Even if they win (and all the things fall in place to get them into the playoffs), they have already stabbed us through the heart once again.

And to think- the eagles fans were complaining.

My team is worse than your team. Nah-nah-nah...

Happy Holidays one & all
Gueli

[Ian]

Yesterday's performances:

Chad Pennington
26 of 34 (76.5%) for 235 yards, 3 touchdowns, 1 interception
Game Outcome: Win 38-31

Phillip Rivers
21 of 31 (67.7%) for 287 yards, 4 touchdowns, 0 interceptions
Game Outcome: Win 41-24

Brett Favre
18 of 31 (58%) for 187 yards, 0 touchdowns, 2 interceptions
Game Outcome: Loss 3-13

Who's going to the Pro Bowl again???

The thing that's really annoying is that, somehow, some way, this will roll off Favre's back just like all his other lousy results have and people will still annoint him "one of the greatest quarterbacks to ever play the game."

[Pagan]

The thing that's really annoying is that, somehow, some way, this will roll off Favre's back just like all his other lousy results have and people will still annoint him "one of the greatest quarterbacks to ever play the game."

The fact that people are ranking him over Marino is disgusting.

[Ian]

The fact that people are ranking him over Marino is disgusting.

They do that because their career statistics are similar, but I don't think that's a fair comparison at all.

I watched both QB's play for the majority of their careers and I can tell you that, in my opinion, Favre isn't fit to haul water for Marino.

Career Stats -

Marino:

240 games started
4,967 completions on 8,358 attempts (59.4%)
420 touchdowns
252 interceptions
QB rating of 86.4

Favre:

268 games started
5,700 completions on 9,240 attempts (61.7%)
463 touchdowns
307 interceptions
QB rating of 85.6

But look ... interceptions mean different things at different points in a game ... and from what I see, Favre tends to throw backbreakers a lot more than Marino ever did. Marino also never had a legitimate running game to back him up.

Although in fairness, I think Favre worked with a lower caliber of receivers for most of his career as compared to Marino.

[gueli]

This probably should be a new thread- but who is the best (top 10) of all time ? what about now ?

also pagan-
I never ment to imply that Chad threw lousy passes. I always remember tight spirals. The thing I am talking about is velocity. You know, it might have had more to do with the way the winds swirl at the meadowlands- any pass that is not thrown low & hard has a tendency to hang when the wind is blowing there. Yes, Chad Pennington can throw the ball deep- but when he does his passes tend to need more height because the velocity is not as strong as some of the other NFL QBS (Peyton Manning for instance). This might be more of a problem at the meadowlands because of the wind. And yes, he had worked hard at rehabbing the arm, especially to pick up more velocity in the off season. None the less - I hope he does well, he will always play his heart out for you.

Oh yeah, obout those stats- Favre has played in 28 more games (as a starter) made almost a thosand more attempts than marino, and has a hare more than 700 compleations than marino. TDs 43 more, Int 55 more (nearly 2 a game). His numbers are comparable.
The real question- who would you want on your team (in their prime).
There certanly are some who would pick favre, but I am not amongst them. Especially at the start - marino was the most dangerous QB out there.

[Pagan]

also pagan-
I never ment to imply that Chad threw lousy passes. I always remember tight spirals. The thing I am talking about is velocity. You know, it might have had more to do with the way the winds swirl at the meadowlands- any pass that is not thrown low & hard has a tendency to hang when the wind is blowing there. Yes, Chad Pennington can throw the ball deep- but when he does his passes tend to need more height because the velocity is not as strong as some of the other NFL QBS (Peyton Manning for instance). This might be more of a problem at the meadowlands because of the wind. And yes, he had worked hard at rehabbing the arm, especially to pick up more velocity in the off season. None the less - I hope he does well, he will always play his heart out for you.

Yea bro, his velocity has definitely improved. Just this past weekend in a brutally cold game in KC he was throwing on a rope again.

I guess we'll see what happens in his return to the Meadowlands this weekend huh?

Dolphins/Jets for the AFC East crown on the last day of the season.

Does it get any better?

[gueli]

Yeah it does not get any better...
But I hope the dolphins win this week, I much prefer the previosly 1 & 15 team going to the show...