Disney lodging is no longer price competitive

[Ian]

Let's just get to the bottom of this whole satisfaction thingy...

http://www.intercot.com/discussion/s...d.php?t=148417
WDW Deluxe Resort Satisfaction Survey!

Ummm ... since this is A. not a scientific poll and B. ridiculously skewed since you're sampling only people who frequent a Disney vacation planning website, this won't be getting to the bottom of anything.

People on this board are not the people I'm talking about.

[SurferStitch]

I did not miss the point that you had a really good time....sorry if i'm giving you that impression.

Actually, that wasn't my point, so yes, you did miss it. You can stop picking my posts apart now, and get back on track.

So, back to the OP's question about cost competitiveness...

While WDW resorts cost more than most off-site hotels, you DO get a lot more for your money. No, it might not be a washing machine, or an extra couch, or a kitchen (which I wouldn't be caught dead in on vacation anyway), but it is elaborate and lavish theming, friendly and magical service (at least in our experiences - except for POR), and convenience, convenience, convenience. We also feel so much more relaxed knowing we can just hop a bus or monorail back to the resort so we can prepare for dinners where you should dress nicely, or just relax between parks. No driving back and forth to a hotel several miles away.

I mean, we've never paid more than $89 a night for Pop (one time we paid $59 per night). No parking fees, no gas, no rental car. That factors in to overall value in my eyes.

When we stay deluxe (even a standard room), we do get more than at a value (especially at the Flo). Everything, like marble floors, lush floral arrangements, live band and pianist, exquisite stores, lush gardens, amazing restaurants, upgraded bedding, every lotion and potion at your disposal, robes, super thick towels, gorgeous and classy decor in the room, and yes, even a phone in the bathroom. Even the CM's at the desk and in the stores seem friendlier there! And, EVERY room we've had at the Flo (and at the Poly the one time we stayed there) were much nicer and fancier than almost every other hotel we've stayed at throughout the country. I can only think of one time were we had a comparable room elsewhere, but we paid about the same price anyway as we would have in WDW.

WDW sets the standard in accommodations in the Orlando area. Everyone else competes to get your business. If WDW doesn't have to lower their prices, why should they? All of the other off-site hotels will just follow suit anyway.

But, I'm glad they pull tourists away from staying at WDW.... just means we're able to get the hotel we want and ALWAYS with a discount of some sort. Works for me!

[Ian]

WDW sets the standard in accommodations in the Orlando area.

When you say that Disney sets the standard in accomodations, do you mean that they set the bar on pricing?

Because I would differ with you if you're trying to say that they offer the peak in terms of luxury accomodations. What they do offer, as everyone here has pointed out, is location, location, location, and superior theming over most other Orlando area resorts.

But I honestly think a lot of folks have sort of missed the point of this thread and been derailed by some of the more recent comments. All the OP was saying was ... he could book a concierge level room at the Royal Palm for about 60% of what it would cost for a normal room at the Wilderness Lodge.

Now look ... I know a lot of people will support Disney no matter what, but I think even they would have to admit that it makes very little sense to pay almost twice as much for a far inferior level of accomodations.

Now all that being said, I make that decision all the time because I'm a Disney fan and my fandom overrules common sense.

But at the end of the day, most (and I do mean most) visitors to WDW are not Internet fanboys.

[BrerGnat]

To the OP:

I just want to ask, why can't you take advantage of the 4/3 deal? Why are you looking at rack rate pricing?

Just curious, as a lot of this argument could totally change if you take the current discount(s) Disney is offering into effect...

I mean, I COMPLETELY agree that Disney's rack rates are excessively high, especially in Peak season. They are just laughable. I would NEVER pay them. I am going to WDW in Peak season (March 26-April 2) and we were originally booked at the Swan with a AAA rate, but when the 4/3 deal came through, it actually worked out CHEAPER to book the Contemporary for a week using that deal than to stay at the Swan, so we switched. We will be in a tower room at the Contemporary for the same price as the Swan, which is no contest for me.

It's a similar argument (Disney vs. Non Disney) and the perception of what you get for the money (Deluxe vs. Deluxe), and I feel that for the same money, we are getting more by staying at the Contemporary (DME, the monorail, access to the Poly, GF, and WL for meals, the lake for recreation, FREE, albeit limited, internet in the room, etc) than the Swan.

We could have booked a Concierge room at the WL for even LESS, too, by the way.

[Orlando Resident]

Disney delxue resorts maintain the high prices because of the following reasons:
- Disney Brand
- High Demand
- Location, Location, Location!
- Market Inflation
- Guests are willing to pay the high prices

Universal does not have the brand quality, demand, and demographic base to charge prices as high as Disney. Disney does and thats why they can get away with it, as long as people keep coming and keep paying the high prices they will only continue to go up. Even during these bad economic times, Disney is still doing well and bookings at the resorts have decreased very minimally compared to other hotels.

[starflyer59]

Plus, when you stay on site it is a total immersion (sp?) vacation...you leave the real world behind once you get on the Magical Express bus...I tell my friends who question my obsession (how can you go so many times...isn't it just the same thing, different day) that it is like a cruise in port...you're pampered, treated like a princess (or prince), the food is great, there are pools and beaches and beautiful gardens and HAPPY PEOPLE EVERWHERE...boy, I just convinced myself!!! Good thing I only have 53 days left in my count down~

We love Disney..but Iam not sure about the "happy people everywhere" part of it. Christmas day 2007 was the worst time we ever had at Disney. Shoulder to Shoulder crowds, several verbal fights, several pushing and shoving fights, several punches thrown, people pushing and shoving, cussing, yelling.

It was total Chaos and Disney did not step in to stop any of it.

It was the worst trip ever.

[Ian]

Disney delxue resorts maintain the high prices because of the following reasons:
- Disney Brand
- High Demand
- Location, Location, Location!
- Market Inflation
- Guests are willing to pay the high prices

Universal does not have the brand quality, demand, and demographic base to charge prices as high as Disney. Disney does and thats why they can get away with it, as long as people keep coming and keep paying the high prices they will only continue to go up. Even during these bad economic times, Disney is still doing well and bookings at the resorts have decreased very minimally compared to other hotels.

I think you're right on the money and I don't actually think anyone was trying to imply this wasn't the case.

I don't expect Disney to lower their room rates, because of all you mentioned above. I think all that was being said was that, for the OP, the value proposition no longer made sense for the Disney resort in his opinion. There's no doubt that there are many, many people (myself included) for whom it does make sense.

Although in fairness, we basically opted out of this problem by buying into DVC.

[lockedoutlogic]

Actually, that wasn't my point, so yes, you did miss it. You can stop picking my posts apart now, and get back on track.

So, back to the OP's question about cost competitiveness...

While WDW resorts cost more than most off-site hotels, you DO get a lot more for your money. No, it might not be a washing machine, or an extra couch, or a kitchen (which I wouldn't be caught dead in on vacation anyway), but it is elaborate and lavish theming, friendly and magical service (at least in our experiences - except for POR), and convenience, convenience, convenience. We also feel so much more relaxed knowing we can just hop a bus or monorail back to the resort so we can prepare for dinners where you should dress nicely, or just relax between parks. No driving back and forth to a hotel several miles away.

I mean, we've never paid more than $89 a night for Pop (one time we paid $59 per night). No parking fees, no gas, no rental car. That factors in to overall value in my eyes.

When we stay deluxe (even a standard room), we do get more than at a value (especially at the Flo). Everything, like marble floors, lush floral arrangements, live band and pianist, exquisite stores, lush gardens, amazing restaurants, upgraded bedding, every lotion and potion at your disposal, robes, super thick towels, gorgeous and classy decor in the room, and yes, even a phone in the bathroom. Even the CM's at the desk and in the stores seem friendlier there! And, EVERY room we've had at the Flo (and at the Poly the one time we stayed there) were much nicer and fancier than almost every other hotel we've stayed at throughout the country. I can only think of one time were we had a comparable room elsewhere, but we paid about the same price anyway as we would have in WDW.

WDW sets the standard in accommodations in the Orlando area. Everyone else competes to get your business. If WDW doesn't have to lower their prices, why should they? All of the other off-site hotels will just follow suit anyway.

But, I'm glad they pull tourists away from staying at WDW.... just means we're able to get the hotel we want and ALWAYS with a discount of some sort. Works for me!

Actually...I didn't miss your point...

Your point is that you are praising Disney as being an appropriate value....and now you have added that they set the standard in the orlando area.

Your assessment of what you get for the value of your dollar is yours.....I don't agree with it...but that is fine.

You last comment that disney sets the standard....
well....I won't say it's completely wrong. they set their own standard for their type of experience. Walt Disney world is unique, as are the disney hotels, because they constructed them to roll integrated offerings under the same umbrella. That gives them a unique place in the travel world.

But "sets the standard"? for everything?
No. Certainly not luxury. There are four or five locations within a couple of miles of WDW that do a better job at luxury class accomodations that i thought of in the first nanosecond after i read that misquided comment.

Disney luxury is not very luxurious. And before I get dismissive responses about toiletries (which are not very good anyway) and personal service (from a person with a mickey mouse tag that has no specialized training in customer service - due to the fact he would have to be paid a higher than minimum hourly wage).....I know their game....I played their game.
I operated control at the GF and had to take care of the concierge rooms as well. I saw the level of incompetence...which was due to lack of training and appropriate personel alone, not lack of motivation. The staff itself scoffs at what they charge and what they can due....the roadblocks.....and just mostly the things that they ignore completely and trust that the fiberglass castle next door will make go away (it usually does...sadly).

I love disney hotels....they are well maintained and comfortable.
But their price level is not nearly inline with hotel industry standards for amenities....not even close.
It is location....and if you are willing to pay roughly 50% of your room night because you are in Disney World (which you do)....that is fine.
But Disney hotels would fail in the price competive debate to all objective observers except those that sacrifice their objectivity by wearing mouse ears and waving the corporate flag.

We know everyone loves Disney here....so do I. But I'm not going to say what isn't true becuase their is a title on the front of the building.

And frankly, with all due respect, I really don't think I have the background to be dismissed as an overzealous first grader.....so may it stop here?

Now we can "get back on topic"....which is whether or not disney is a competitive price in hotels for what you get.....

[big blue and hairy]

My statistics are from talking with people who have gone to WDW and booked deluxe accommodations and have come back and spoken with me. They do say that they had a nice stay (most of the time) but almost every one has said to me that it was not an actual deluxe experience as they have experienced in other locations which are also AAA 4-5 Diamond Rated. No specific article by a critic, though my sister (one of my sources) is a conference/event planner who judges hotel properties as part of her job.

The validity of your agruement depends on a few things...

1. Are your friends WDW fans?

2. How picky are you friends about certain particular amenities?

3. Have they stayed in more 4 or 5 diamond hotels? WDW has no 5 diamond properties, they have 4 diamond resorts. (V&A is 5, but as a restaurant).

[cgriff]

Walt Disney world is unique, as are the disney hotels, because they constructed them to roll integrated offerings under the same umbrella. That gives them a unique place in the travel world.

Now we can "get back on topic"....which is whether or not disney is a competitive price in hotels for what you get.....

You have established that WDW/Disney hotels are unique. I agree with that premise. But this makes trying to compare Disney hotels with others an effort fraught with potential for error, or perhaps even impossible.

However, if you want to try, there is something very important that needs to be determined first....

In U.S. dollars, what do you think is the value, per-night, of Disney uniqueness?

[BrerGnat]

However, if you want to try, there is something very important that needs to be determined first....

In U.S. dollars, what do you think is the value, per-night, of Disney uniqueness?

Well, I suppose you will get your answer when they open their resort in Hawaii.

Without a Disney Park to use the "location, location, location" argument as a justification for the prices they will charge, they will HAVE to be price competitive with the other resorts in the area, or they will HAVE to have something that the others don't, and they will HAVE to measure up, in terms of quality, comparative to the other resorts in the same price class, or people will just not go there.

However, having just said all that, I will ALSO say that *just* knowing that resort is on the way makes me look forward to going to Hawaii and makes me feel like there will be a good reason to go with YOUNG kids, because I feel that Disney will build a resort that is TRULY family friendly in Hawaii. Although a few resorts claim to be, I just cannot find enough justification for their claims when I do the research, and because of that, I have decided NOT to visit Hawaii with our young kids, at least not until Disney opens their doors...

There is a lot to be said for a company that can build anticipation like that, and loyalty to a brand name, based upon past experiences.

I'd say that's worth a lot.

Would I feel the same way if Universal announced they were building a resort in Hawaii? No way!

[Goes4FastPass]

Disney brand loyalty trancends facts and figures.

If somebody says "Disney bottled water is more magical" is it worthwhile to try to convince them otherwise?

[Ian]

Disney brand loyalty trancends facts and figures.

If somebody says "Disney bottled water is more magical" is it worthwhile to try to convince them otherwise?

Absolutely not. That's an argument you'll never win.

[Lynn J Mc]

3 words - Location - location - location!

[big blue and hairy]

Disney brand loyalty trancends facts and figures.

If somebody says "Disney bottled water is more magical" is it worthwhile to try to convince them otherwise?

Also true. Although, I can see things that Disney should do better, enough so, that I've written emails, there is something different about WDW. I like Universal, it's a fun park, and definitely better than any other park that's not Disney, I can just feel the difference.

[ravsluvdisney]

First off, let me say we have not stayed at any of the off-site options so I can't compare in that regard - but I do feel that being on-site does make up for the steep $$$$ you do pay for the convenience.

We have been doing the World for several years now with our 2 DS' (now 6 & 9). We've stayed at WL, BC and POLY. I can think of numerous occasions - normally involving the boys - when we had to leave a park spur of the moment, change plans last minute, etc. Having the option of jumping a monorail or bus back to the resort and then back out to the parks with minimal fuss is a huge bonus. Also, the room comparisons discussed here seem to favor some of the non-Disney hotels but the Disney theming, dining options, and so many things the boys enjoy....pin trading in the lobby and movies/roasting marshmellows at BC, a quick scrumptious snack from Kona on the way to the parks or watching the firewororks over Cindy's castle from the POLY beach....all perks for us.

Also there will be discounts to be had out there. DW, who plans our yearly trips, was just working on some quotes with a 20% discount.

Hey, it simply comes down to the 2 "C"'s - Cost vs. Convenience. We always take a deep financial breath and go convenience. haven't been disappointed yet!!

[NJMan66]

Hello everyone, OP here. When I wrote this post my original intention was to focus on one thing and one thing only - cost for the SAME quality. Who knew this post would still be alive for so long?

I am forced to leave during the most expensive time this year because I do not want to pull my kids out of school, again.

When comparing Disney Deluxe hotels to other "Deluxe Hotels":
- Is the location better/more convenient: Yes (only if you are going to a WDW parks)
- Is the feeling more magical? Yes
- Do I get better service from the staff? Yes
- Is it worth $500 a week to stay "on property?" Yes
- Is it worth $1500 a week to stay "on property?" IMHO, No

Would I gladly pay $700 more a week to stay at the Poly or GF for a monorail to MK and Epcot? Yes, but not $2000 a week.

My whole point here has to do with Disney's desire to respond to, or even acknowledge what the competition is doing "out there" in Orlando. It sounds like they are; which is great. I did not know this when I wrote my post. All I knew, was I was trading my regular room at the Wilderness Lodge, getting a club room at the Royal Pacific, and saving lots of money. Money I can now use for dining and other fun things.

[fielin]

I am sure you will have a great time at the Royal Pacific ! I know I did, and I was not even on club level !

Please let us know what you thought when you come back !

[gueli]

Hello everyone, OP here. When I wrote this post my original intention was to focus on one thing and one thing only - cost for the SAME quality. Who knew this post would still be alive for so long?

I am forced to leave during the most expensive time this year because I do not want to pull my kids out of school, again.

When comparing Disney Deluxe hotels to other "Deluxe Hotels":
- Is the location better/more convenient: Yes (only if you are going to a WDW parks)
- Is the feeling more magical? Yes
- Do I get better service from the staff? Yes
- Is it worth $500 a week to stay "on property?" Yes
- Is it worth $1500 a week to stay "on property?" IMHO, No

Would I gladly pay $700 more a week to stay at the Poly or GF for a monorail to MK and Epcot? Yes, but not $2000 a week.

My whole point here has to do with Disney's desire to respond to, or even acknowledge what the competition is doing "out there" in Orlando. It sounds like they are; which is great. I did not know this when I wrote my post. All I knew, was I was trading my regular room at the Wilderness Lodge, getting a club room at the Royal Pacific, and saving lots of money. Money I can now use for dining and other fun things.

Again- enjoy your trip.
This post has been very um...entertaining.
to say the least.

[iadarolas]

Universal is a nice park....but it is not and will never be Disney! Universal has absolutely NO MAGIC!!!!! I like the idea of being immersed in the magic 24/7. I don't want to drive a car either!