Adventurer's Club Rumors?

[lockedoutlogic]

So where are you getting the numbers? The real numbers, not the ambiguous statements made at press conferences, or press releases. Where are the numbers?

I'm not saying this to be spiteful, or whatever. I'm just trying to learn a little more about it, and I really want to know where to find the facts.

I don't need numbers.....because here's the deal....and it's 100% fact

If pleasure island generated acceptible levels of profit.....then it would still be operating.

It's pretty simple isn't it? WDW is there to make money....that is it's goal. To make money from travelers....to make money through cross-promotion....to make money by hooking "children of all ages" into putting positive associations with Disney and passing along their experiences - which lead to more generations of people visiting and spending money on Disney branded merchandise

Now does disney always make the right choices when they add/subtract areas? No.....but it is entirely profit driven unless it is a rare public relations disaster (Captain EO)....

The fact is that they looked at operating costs, receipts, and the figures behind their third party leasing agreements.....and decided that PI had hit the wall and that outsourcing restaurants had a better yield on what they had to put into it (not much...in this case)

I bet they're right....

You probably missed the fact that the AC was the most profitable club of PI? But the beancounters just preferred to let other business take the risk and open a t-shirt shop that you can find on every corner of the net...

So if i'm the most profitable store in a strip mall with few customers....does that make me any less BANKRUPT?

ok...that's an extreme analogy....but the loose logic holds....

PI has never generated what they wanted from it.....moreso since the advent of the West Side because that is PRIME disney real estate....

already known with infrastructure and services already there.....next to the insanely profitable marketplace....easy access to the large city of orlando that might go there but isn't in the magic kingdom for EMH....

Look....would the world have ended if they had tried to keep PI?

Absolutely not....but they took their shot (20 years) and haven't much liked the product.

Disney need not kiss up to adults looking for a good that kinda place anyway....

seriously...if you want adult partying....WDW is about the 1,000,000 best place to go....

It's still Disney...there are vices that can be had.....the droves will now not flock somewhere else....

Trust me....they've studied this into the ground....i don't think this is a risky decision they made with their fingers crossed and eyes closed.....

in the end....the marketplace, west side, and PI will all merge into one....and the cash will keep coming....

Besides....if you want an adult good time....I suggest the Rathskeller in State College, PA

[Cinderelley]

I think my idea of profitable and Disney's idea of profitable are two different things.

I realize Club 33 is a different animal, but I was referring to the fact that it was just for a small amount of people, not the 2500 people an hour that Lockedoutlogic was referring to. Maybe they should turn AC into a new Club 33.

[CaptainJessicaSparrow]

Sooooooo....essentially, you are just making up numbers? I mean, over 8000 petitioned to have the club saved. That 8,000 a year, at $22 a pop, plus however many drinks, lets say 2 @ 9.00 (a Kungaloosh was $9 and change so $20 for drinks and tips)..... = $3,520,000 a year. And that's if they only visit once a year. Did you know, that the last week any CM who was there had to have paid admission? So even if it was all CMs, we PAID to be there. And it shows that we would pay to go there.

That's pretty decent money.

[The Joker]

I don't need numbers.....because here's the deal....and it's 100% fact

If pleasure island generated acceptible levels of profit.....then it would still be operating.

You have a enormous confidence in corporate decision-making. They closed PI, so it must be a good decision? My experience in big corporations does not support that. Many decisions are not based on raw facts nor on sound financial analysis, but on gut feeling, personal preferences and politics. Disney (like other big companies) has a long history of bad decisions, e.g. buying go.com, removing Figment from Yourney into your Inmagination, etc.

PI was pretty profitable, until they decided to kill it slowly. They wanted to get out, so they stopped being successful with it. If Disney is not able to keep a unique concept like the AC profitable, then they'd better get out of the entertainment business at all.

[lockedoutlogic]

You have a enormous confidence in corporate decision-making. They closed PI, so it must be a good decision? My experience in big corporations does not support that. Many decisions are not based on raw facts nor on sound financial analysis, but on gut feeling, personal preferences and politics. Disney (like other big companies) has a long history of bad decisions, e.g. buying go.com, removing Figment from Yourney into your Inmagination, etc.

PI was pretty profitable, until they decided to kill it slowly. They wanted to get out, so they stopped being successful with it. If Disney is not able to keep a unique concept like the AC profitable, then they'd better get out of the entertainment business at all.

I don't have a "tremendous confidence" in corporate decision making....far from it.

But I know that the decisions at WDW are about revenue...plain and simple.

They think they can do better with third party food/ retail locations....

Is that a guarantee? no.....but what we do know is that they didn't view PI as a profit-driving necessity at WDW....

[lockedoutlogic]

Sooooooo....essentially, you are just making up numbers? I mean, over 8000 petitioned to have the club saved. That 8,000 a year, at $22 a pop, plus however many drinks, lets say 2 @ 9.00 (a Kungaloosh was $9 and change so $20 for drinks and tips)..... = $3,520,000 a year. And that's if they only visit once a year. Did you know, that the last week any CM who was there had to have paid admission? So even if it was all CMs, we PAID to be there. And it shows that we would pay to go there.

That's pretty decent money.

You are showing alot of naivity for someone who works at WDW....no offense.

8000 on a petition? 3.5 million a year?

Come on, now.....you know better

those numbers are laughable to Disney management in WDW.....
you know it first hand....how long does it take for the emporium to do 3.5 mil in sales? how many hours into the day does it take for 8000 people to cross the threshold?

those numbers are pitiful....by WDW standards

It seems like part of this "discussion" is a lack of vision.....what "most folk" consider "good" money and what Disney does are on different sides of the galaxy.....just read the annual reports and look at the figures.....WDW won't blink at a loss of the adventure's club....

But to use your example.....how much money is stood to be made by a full service (with bar) sitdown restaurant operating in the AC space per hour....as opposed to the sketchy crowds at a PI club?

An honest man conceeds that the money is much higher in the restaurant case.....and WDW sheds the standing operational costs....or at least a large part of it....for a nice share of the revenue and/or leasing fees.

[JPL]

To understand what happened at PI you have to go back and look at it's history and why it was built in the first place and the events that lead up to the closing.

PI was built was built to compete with Church Street Station(which has long since closed) and keep WDW guests and their money on property. This was one of Eisner's main focuses which include the new hotels, water parks alonmg with the Studios and AK. It was a huge success and would have continued to be so. One little problem was it's location after the Westside was built. It then became a gated road block stopping through traffic to the Westside. The Tenants on the Westside were complaining their profits were not up to par with the projections and they blamed PI. Me personally I blame the type of stores that were put in but that's another arguement altogether. I mean do I really need to buy an over priced CD or DVD while on vacation? Disney thought they would solve the problem by opening up the island to through traffic. This destroyed the experience of PI over time and lead to problems with teenagers and others hanging around outside the clubs. It also lead to the removal of the outdoor entertainment and fireworks which further diminished the experience. The problems with revenue on the Westside still wasn't helped by the decision. Disney then decides to close PI and add more shops and restaurants hoping this will lead to more taffic heading towards the Westside. Only time will tell if this works or not. The AC which was the most unique of all the clubs developed a following since it was a very unique experience. Sadly it fell victim to the PI closing.

I honestly don't believe outside shops and restaurants will be any more successful unless they are truly unique shops that can't be found in every mall around the country. I know one rumour has a Build-a-bear going in the area and to me that is not unique enough since they are everywhere.

[Polynesian Dweller]

PI was pretty profitable, until they decided to kill it slowly.

Being profitable and being a good investment are not the same thing. Decisions are really based on rates of return. The group I was involved with that owned the hotel ran a profitable hotel, it made money every year. But we sold it. Why, because after analysizing the rate of return over a decade and the possiblities of growth in the future it was clear that we were not realizing the best rate of return we could on our money. And, after we all reinvested we actually did better by at least 2% in our new businesses.

As LockedOutlogic says, this is about revenues. If Disney analyzes things and sees that overall PI is hurting the potential rate of return despite profitiability then it will try to do something about that. That's what shareholders rightly demand, the highest rate of return on investment, not just profitability. Disney is a business first and that's what businesses do.

I honestly don't believe outside shops and restaurants will be any more successful unless they are truly unique shops that can't be found in every mall around the country.

JPL, thanks for the great piece of history of PI. That gives real persepective on why PI may have been hurting overall rate of return for the Downtown area. I agree, though, that new shops and restaurants need to be distinctive in order to appeal to vacationers and locals alike or they won't be profitable. But the real measure for Disney will be whether the West Side improves enough to increase overall rate of return for the whole of DTD.

[Ian]

I absolutely agree with Jeff (JPL) that, once PI ceased to be a gated attraction with admission required, it was doomed.

That was one of the worst ideas Disney ever had. Actually, the whole West Side thing kinda stunk, too.

I always wonder ... who goes there?? Why in the world (no pun intended) would someone want to shop at a Virgin Megastore while in WDW???

[JRocker]

Ever since the shutdown was announced, we have discussed every aspect.

From what I have gathered so far:
1) PI; good idea, poor long term execution. (removing the gates, having "family" areas to either side of it)
2) West side; another good idea, and more bad execution. (overpriced, standard any mall in a america stores)
3) combine numbers one and two; goodbye PI (that includes a couple of our favorite watering holes )

That is pretty much what we know, and it stinks really, but that's the reality.

Other than opinions on the matter, we have no concrete facts. We are left with press releases, and media speculation.

Yes, Disney is a business, I'm pretty sure we are all aware of that fact. But without the numbers in front of us, we can only speculate that the decision was financially motivated.

Yes, Disney says that it was. But, here's the deal. First and foremost, Disney is responsible to its shareholders. Every move that they make has to have a positive financial motive to it. If they were to say that PI was being closed because of customer complaints, bad press, somebody had a better idea, etc. The shareholders would string them up.

We don't have the FACTS in front of us. We can speculate, right alongside the media, until we are blue in the face. Without the numbers in front of us, we have no facts. End of story.

So, we are left to take it at face value. Disney shut it down because they said, as a whole, it is losing money. (not just AC, not just Comedy Club)

We can beg, petition, and hope. Every now and then Disney makes a good decision (take a stroll through the parks if you need proof), and I have to think that if enough people want some of the clubs back, they will find a way.

[Magic Smiles]

Can this be the last dream in the year of a million dreams?

Oh I so hope. I actually preferred CW but would take either. We spent more evenings at the CW then anyplace else apart from the parks.
Maybe someone from Disney might actually read these boards and have the decision makers come to their senses. Let's all send in hope

[AHOTE]

Maybe someone from Disney might actually read these boards and have the decision makers come to their senses. Let's all send in hope

I know for a fact that they monitor one of Intercots' discussion boards so it wouldn't be too much of a surprise that this entire site and others like it are monitored on a regular basis. Does it make a difference? Those who know aren't saying, and they won't. As for coming to their senses...

[WDWNut02]

I started this thread because I heard a rumor that the Cloob might be brought back, and was wondering if anyone else had heard anything similar. Disney World, and the AC in particular, is a place that I go to forget that I have grown up. All I have to do is think about it and it makes me smile. All of the back and forth about why it closed, and speculation about numbers is ugly. True this is wishfull thinking but to me that is what Disney is all about.

[The Joker]

To add to the rumo(u)rs: ex-AC cast was told last Saturday that the final demise of the Cloob is postponed...

[JPL]

The Final Demise has been postponed for some time now since there are still some contractual obligations for conferences and conventions that rented out the space. I know Disney was scrambling to get some of them to change their venues. I'm guessing some refused but hopefully it also means they are rethinking the closing of the club. I think it could survive amongst all the new retail and restaurants just fine.

[The Joker]

It appears it's more than just existing contractual obligations. Cast was informed last Saturday that the AC would be available for private parties until October 1st, 2009 at least. (First messages last September only mentioned private parties until January 17th.) Since they at least need a skeleton-cast for these parties, it would be fairly easy for WDW/PI management to re-open the Club for the general public once they decide to do so.

[JPL]

Makes me wonder if with the economy all these retail and restaurant vetures have pulled out or put their plans on hold until they see some form of recovery starting.

[The Joker]

Makes me wonder if with the economy all these retail and restaurant vetures have pulled out or put their plans on hold until they see some form of recovery starting.

My thoughts also. I guess that they did not have the new PI concept fully detailed out with contracts signed and all. And there is a fair possibility that some of those contracts (or Letters of Intent) are now just a peace of worthless paper...

[johnO]

I think some are missing the point. I don't think I ever went to AC but despite that fact I can see why so many would be bummed out. I think what some here, like locked out logic... et al, don't see is that WDW is different than other destinations because of things like AC. Things like the lounge singer or the torch lighting ceremony at the poly which are also slated for permanent removal amongst many things that are dissappearing from the landscape.

The WDW experience is so much more than the parks. It's all of these little things, this wide array of things to do and see beyond the gates of the parks that keep people comming back. Things and places that have a so called 'cult' or 'niche' following. You add all of those up and it equals return visits.....and $$$$$. You keep losing all of the charm and uniqueness that things like AC offered and you end up with six flags or universal for three times the price... (as I wrote on another thread recently).....

[Jasper]

I don't have any idea what it means, but on Jan. 7, 2009, my son (20) and I were walking through PI and walked up to the door of AC to see if we could see if anything had been done inside yet. As we were looking my son "accidentally" pushed on the door and it happened to be open. We didn't go very far into the venue because there were only a few lights on so we couldn't see very well. however, we could see well enough to tell that nothing has been taken out yet.(sorry, no pictures, neither of us had a camera along.)

Then, no sooner had we gone back out the front door than a man and a woman pulled up with a cart full of bottles of alcohol. Unfortunately, they didn't know anything other than that they had been told to make a delivery there on that day.

So if I had to venture a guess I would say the remarks about staying open to meet contractual obligations may be correct.