Deadly Disney World Monorail Crash-Updated with NTSB Report

[WDWdriver]

...and built by a European firm if i remember correctly....

The monorail trains are built by the Mass Transit Division of Bombardier with headquarters in Montréal, Canada. They also make NYC subway cars, among many other transportation vehicles.

[Mickey91]

I'm all for respect of the family, and for the driver who so far seems to be a heroic and quick-thinking CM in my opinion (attempting reverse to avoid the imminent collision). But why must we scold ourselves for speculation or cynicism in this thread? Other than Orlando Sentinel cut & pastes and offerings of 'pixie dust', what can the discussion be?

This is a very sad event, that gets sadder as it unfolds. We're all just concerned WDW fans, and speculation is all we have until an official report is released. The driver and his family do not deserve our scrutiny, but the actual cause does. I highly doubt that the driver's family checks this board for clues, nor does anyone of authority in this investigation.

Very sorry. Did not mean to anger anyone. And I did not mean to step on any toes. I was not offended in any way by any of the posts. I just read the last couple and felt a totally different spirit of things and knowing that no one wants to be offensive in this discussion, shared my feelings. As has been stated before, sometimes the written word is taken in a totally different way than the writer intends. And, in our passion toward this particular subject, we may not see where something could be taken wrong or even where our emotions begin to escalate. My point was only that through a couple posts, it seemed we were more worried about legal action affecting our pocket books than the subject at hand. And, I know that it is a reality. And I know that it is a DISCUSSION board meant to discuss things. I simply thought that the effect on vacation prices etc. would maybe be better discussed in a new thread. I happen to agree with the speculation. And again, I am very sorry to invoke such anger. It was not my intention. Like everyone here, I too just want to know the whys and make sense of what has happened.

[Mickey91]

From WFTV Channel 9 News

3 Disney Workers Suspended Over Monorail Crash


Wednesday night, a former monorail driver with friends still in the area told Eyewitness News a series of safeguards appear to have been ignored all at the same time.

Thursday, Disney confirmed that a monorail pilot, a monorail shop worker and transportation manager were placed on paid administrative leave related to the investigation.

A different former driver with two friends still at Disney told Eyewitness News off camera the manager and another employee were at Denny's across the street from Disney property and it was left to a maintenance worker to make the switch.

Hopefully for the manager's sake, he was on an actual lunch break. Seems odd with trains being just about done for the night. Also, being off property doesn't sound good either. But, not knowing Disney's policy for breaks and management...

It is also likely that the driver is on paid leave for the simple reason that he must be in terrible shock and having a hard time dealing with the events of the last few days.

I can't say that the recent cutbacks haven't sprung to mind either.

[ayeckley]

do you think they will replace the two (or more) sections of the monorail trains?

My guess is they'll quietly re-assign Purple -- and possibly Pink as well -- to new colors. Not in an attempt to hide anything, just to attract less attention when they are eventually brought back on-line.

It looks like the majority of the damage is cosmetic relative to the main structure of the rolling chassis, so I don't expect anything to be scrapped other than the affected nose sections. I expect that the removed sections will be tastefully disposed of; destroyed beyond recognition by maintenance personnel *before* being sent to the landfill. Hopefully no pictures of anything lying on scrap heaps will appear on the internetwebs.

I told my kids to hang on to their co-pilot's licenses; I suspect cockpit rides are gone for good.

[Ian]

I can't say that the recent cutbacks haven't sprung to mind either.

I was thinking the same thing. I'd hate to think that this is related to staffing reductions, but boy ... it's hard not to think that right now since it seems that a lack of skilled and available personnel is a major contributing factor to this incident.

And that's not at all to imply that these monorail drivers weren't skilled. I'm talking about spotting staff in the TTC, track monitors back at the barn, management, etc. The folks who are supposed to be supervising and assisting with these types of undertakings.

[Marker]

I was thinking the same thing. I'd hate to think that this is related to staffing reductions, but boy ... it's hard not to think that right now since it seems that a lack of skilled and available personnel is a major contributing factor to this incident.

And that's not at all to imply that these monorail drivers weren't skilled. I'm talking about spotting staff in the TTC, track monitors back at the barn, management, etc. The folks who are supposed to be supervising and assisting with these types of undertakings.

Just to be fair, and not argumentative, there is also no information available to indicate whether company cutbacks had any potential impact in this area whatsoever. There is no information that I'm aware of to indicate that there was any reduction of force in areas of operation or safety of the monorails, or any other guest transport medium.

Any such discussion is purely personal speculation, not based on any known facts. Although someone may read such speculation, and pass it on as though it were factual, much like those who read and watch tabloid "news" and believe aliens have visited and caused some celebrity to give birth to a horse headed, rabbit footed, offspring.

If I'm wrong, I apoligize. I just know that if I was one of the parties involved I would not find it very magical for people to be spreading fairy tails about me that I would be left to live down once proven wrong. But that's just me.

[MNNHFLTX]

My point was only that through a couple posts, it seemed we were more worried about legal action affecting our pocket books than the subject at hand.

I had those same feelings. To speculate about ticket price increases related to a settlement in a lawsuit (to me) trivializes the human life that was lost.

Discussion is fine, but in a sad situation such as this there are bound to be times where words will be misinterpreted.

[Ian]

There is no information that I'm aware of to indicate that there was any reduction of force in areas of operation or safety of the monorails, or any other guest transport medium.

Understood and agreed.

The only thing that lead me to say that was the fact that A. it seemed like the implication was there was a set of eyes missing from the TTC tower to help guide the monorail backing up and B. the fact that there appeared to be no one backing up the manager who was out to dinner.

But I will concede that neither of those things, alone, is enough to prove or disprove that the incident was related to staffing reductions.

[seanyred]

I was wondering if Disney or anyone has realeased the new operating procedures for backing up. I've read that they are now using more visual confirmation but have not seen a press release. Since there is no possible way to change the past, it would be nice to know what the new procedure is. Being a therapist I tend to be more solution focused. Also I think if Disney did release these procedures in some capacity it would help ease nerves.

Anyone currently attending the park? Is ridership down on the Monorails?

[lockedoutlogic]

Understood and agreed.

The only thing that lead me to say that was the fact that A. it seemed like the implication was there was a set of eyes missing from the TTC tower to help guide the monorail backing up and B. the fact that there appeared to be no one backing up the manager who was out to dinner.

But I will concede that neither of those things, alone, is enough to prove or disprove that the incident was related to staffing reductions.

i don't think that a reduction in workforce was the culprit...

I do think a couple of other things could be:

1 The workforce are paid minimum wages...and therefore log extra hours to attempt to scratch a livable wage (minimum wage is still not a livable wage)
2 The workforce is by and large unskilled, and have seen massive reductions in training for years to attempt and cut corners.
3 Lack of more specialized CMs in supervisory roles, based on experience, to facilitate the work. Again...the want a completely interchangeable, unskilled workstaff...so they can pay them as such.


Granted I did not work in transportation, but in other very costly and important areas of the operation - you would be shocked at how often the ship just kinda ran itself with staff that was not qualified.

It's amazing sometimes that more problems don't occur...

The Eisner regime apparently saw this and attempted to adopt it as policy...instead of squashing it as a error in need of correction - as they should have.

[Crow]

No matter what happend, its a shame that someone died.
thoughts go out to the family.

[gueli]

Just watched a video on WESH (aparently a local news station) of a friend of pink monrail driver speaking on his behalf.
From his statements he is also or was also a monorail pilot.

As I have feared, Pink monorails pilot is greatly distrought (under doctors care).
The man spoke about procedures - how to move a monrail you were radio'd instructions- and the monorail only moved after recieving orders.
He also said that you would not have noticed the wrong track from the cab (you arent looking about at which rail youre on, and they both have the same feel).
He also spoke of grieving for his fellow monorail pilot.

So sad. My sympathies for pinks pilot...

[joonyer]

Having a driver/pilot at both ends of the train during switches could eliminate this problem in the future. The driver/pilot in the rear (now front when train begins backing) could easily notice that switch had not been thrown and could stop the train before the risk of any impact with another.

[DizneyRox]

I would hope control is only accepted from one end of the monorail, probably the one with a key. Having two pilots issuing different directions could solve nothing. Which is the correct order?

[Skippy]

I would hope control is only accepted from one end of the monorail, probably the one with a key. Having two pilots issuing different directions could solve nothing. Which is the correct order?

I would initially say the brake - however what if the rear pilot hits the brake, while the front pilot is trying to do what Austin did and throw it in reverse. That system wouldn't work.

Their current (renewed) policy of only driving forward over switches seems to be a great start. I'd still think a "back up" camera with monitor at both ends couldn't possibly be that expensive.

[gueli]

I would initially say the brake - however what if the rear pilot hits the brake, while the front pilot is trying to do what Austin did and throw it in reverse. That system wouldn't work.

Their current (renewed) policy of only driving forward over switches seems to be a great start. I'd still think a "back up" camera with monitor at both ends couldn't possibly be that expensive.

Yes a back up camera would be alright.
But nothing is better than an experienced pair of eyes.
Look at it this way, if to set up the epcot line in the morning, you would need 2 drivers (only one at a time, so that you could go foward in either direction) & at the end of the day you would do the same operation. It would only require 1 extra driver during set up & breakdown. I cannot see how the expense of the second person is that great, as you would not need 2 for normal operations. than you can go foward over all the switches. when you switch to the MK express line, the second driver gets off at the TTC and helps the next train.

Anyway, I think that they will play it safer from now on...

[dudeman1975]

What I do not understand is why MAPO was not working in either trains, one should have seen the other getting to close and thrown on the breaks, does the system not work if one is in overide, purple's MAPO should have worked and thrown on the emergency brakes. I am not sure if MAPO works correctly in these situations.

[brownie]

Disney World changes monorail procedures after fatal crash; guests cannot ride up front for now
by Peggy MacDonald
from examiner.com

July 11, 9:28 AM

As the National Transportation Safety Board completes the initial stages of its lengthy investigation of Sunday's monorail collision, Walt Disney World is implementing new monorail procedures at its parks. The most visible change is that Disney guests can no longer ride at the front of the monorail.

Before Sunday's crash, up to four guests were allowed to ride with the monorail pilot in the driver's cab. A Disney monorail pilot who asked to remain anonymous said the change in policy might be temporary. Disney's monorail policies are expected to undergo several major changes in the wake of the crash, according to the pilot. It could take several months for the results of NTSB's investigation to be released. The agency's final recommendations may include an official end to Disney's former practice of welcoming guests in the cab.

Six passengers were riding monorail purple Sunday at around 2 a.m., when monorail pink backed into purple and killed its pilot, Austin Wuennenberg. He spotted monorail pink in time to stop his own monorail train, and he died while attempting to put the train in reverse. This lessened the force of the impact upon both monorails. The effects of a head-on collision of two moving monorails are unknown. Wuennenberg's actions likely saved the lives of the six passengers on board monorail purple, in addition to saving the life of monorail pink's driver.

If passengers had ridden in the driver's cab when monorail pink backed into monorail purple Sunday, the collision would have been even more catastrophic. Disney has placed the driver of monorail pink, a monorail transportation manager, and an employee from the monorail maintenance shop on paid leave.

[EPCOT84]

My heart goes out to all affected by these events. I just finished reading this thread. For now the action to keep passengers out of the front car is appropriate and respectful.

The most important lesson everyone can take from this incident is the importance of employee actions and appropriate supervision.

As one poster said early on, the crash may have been a chain of various factors of human error or lapse in judgement. It is sad to read this was all preventable and that it was due it appears to inadequate oversight, if the article is true about the maintenance worker left alone to handle the switch if indeed the person was left without oversight.

Rules and procedures and employee break rules need to be coordinated and managed thoroughly. Staffing and training of staff needs to be ongoing. I am sure this is being discussed in company meetings and changes will be made. One can never predict all possible events. Procedures, rules, laws, regulations and training are all made after something tragic has to happen. Everyone will be vigilant for a time but years later, things could lapse again. Everyone has a place in using the example of action and some inaction in this event to trigger changes not only at WDW but the same examples where ever each of us make a difference in our workplaces and schools and at home.

To the family of the driver of train Purple who made efforts to avoid the crash, my condolences. To the driver of train Pink, sympathy for what you had to endure. To the family onboard train Purple, my heartfelt wish that you will recover any anxiety or stress of having gone through this and reading about it later. To the CM who tried his best to respond at the TTC and perhaps trying to remember the many company rules when responding to this situation, again my heart goes out to you. To those at Intercot who had the courage to post what many feel was disturbing, I salute you for shaking us up enough to think. To all fellow Intercotees, I hope we can all follow what actions will be put in place and do our part to make families feel at ease when they do travel back to our kingdom.

[seanyred]

Disney World changes monorail procedures after fatal crash; guests cannot ride up front for now
by Peggy MacDonald
from examiner.com

July 11, 9:28 AM

The agency's final recommendations may include an official end to Disney's former practice of welcoming guests in the cab.

.

I don't mean to sound selfish here...but I hope Disney can figure out procedures to allow guests to ride up front again. Its such an enjoyable trip up front...but only time will tell