Deadly Disney World Monorail Crash-Updated with NTSB Report

[Aurora]

...Will they release details, probably not. But that doesn't mean they didn't do anything. I would suspect there are legal issues involved that would prevent them from full & total disclosure. I really wouldn't expect them to.

I would expect them to be required to release many details. The monorail is not technically a public transportation service per se, in that it's run by a private company, but it does have a responsibility to inform the public about safety details and what it's doing to keep the public safe.

I find the company statement that they "added additional verifications of these track switch positions, supplemented our safety procedures and protocols for these operations, and communicated these changes to our Transportation partners," to be inadequate.

Yes, it was lucky that more people weren't aboard, and that no one else was injured, but obviously that wasn't predetermined in this accident. I hope that just because it was Disney the public doesn't give the company a pass, assuming that they're going to "do the right thing." In order for that to happen there has to be some transparency.

[Ed]

Do you think Disney will ever release details about what actually happened, or just ignore it and pretend it never did?

This accident is being fully investigated by at least two governmental agencies - - the Orange County Sheriff's Office and the Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA); those reports are public records, subject to full public dissemination.

I'm glad to see the system is back up and running. I'll be at the Contemporary this Thursday, and I will make a point of riding the monorail to reaffirm my personal confidence in the system's safety. And as the train makes its way along the rail, I'll say a heartfelt prayer for Austin and the other CMs so traumatized by this tragedy.

[DisneyBabies]

First off, my thoughts and prayers go out to the family and friends of Austin along with the entire Disney family. This is a horrible tragedy and will take those most involved in it a long time to recover.

But I would also like to say that my thoughts and prayers go out to the driver of the other monorail as well. He is certainly going to have to live with a lot of guilt no matter what the investigation reveals.

I am also thinking about the family who was on the monorail when the accident occured and I hope that they are all doing ok.


A few CM's have posted on several other sites what is believed by the CM's (at least some of them) to have happened. This is not known fact, it is just bits and pieces given from different CM's that are being put together as a whole theory. From looking at the photos and the video, I have to say that it seems to be a very plausible explanation.

The control center told monorail pink to override the MAPO and back up (CM's weren't in any way sure about why pink had to go in reverse) which meant that he would back up all the way to the concourse. However, no one was in the control box to see first hand if the concourse was clear. So, monorail pink did what he was told, not realizing that no one was in the control box to verify that it was safe to back up. Monorail purple was stopped in the concourse when the monorail pink hit it, not realizing it was there.

There were some wondering why Austin did not get out of the pilot room when his MAPO started going off (all the CM's agreed it would have once the pink got too close) but unfortunately, the MAPO doesn't tell you why it is going off, so he may have been looking at the panel to find out what the problem was. Some also wondered why he didn't back up and the idea was put forward that the kill switch made that impossible.

And of course there are questions about why the monorail pink driver was not looking in his mirrors while he was in reverse to make sure everything was clear and he was on the right track. As well as the questions about why control would authorize the monorail pink to override the MAPO without anyone being there to watch and make sure that everyone was going where they were supposed to go.

I would not be surprised if this (or something close to it) turns out to be the reason for the crash. I guess all we can do is wait and see, but I think the fact that the monorail is operating again so soon means that all indications are that this was just a terrible, one time occurrance.

[renecat]

Last Dec. when we were there we rode alot.
Many times we stopped on the tracks because we were getting to close to the one ahead of us. So does this mean drivers don't have the means to stop if they see something up ahead of them?

[BigRedDad]

I feel so sorry for Austin and his family. This is tragedy beyond compare.

I am not an expert on the monorail and I have only been getting pieces of information from different news outlets. The last bit I just read said the Austin's monorail was waiting at the station and it was the other one that ran into his. Not sure if that is true or not. However, the two monorails hitting head to head on the monorail track is confusing to me. I thought they only traveled in one direction to and from Epcot.

I don't think we will get too many details from the accident. OSHA is strictly for health issues and will not publish findings unless there is a public health issue. The Orange County Sheriff's office will be on a tight leash as well. WDW is one of the largest employers in the area and they are facing large unemployment already.

[Imagineer1981]

wow, this has been an amazing and sad story. My prayers go out to his family, and I have a feeling human error will be the cause

[GrumpyFan]

The control center told monorail pink to override the MAPO and back up (CM's weren't in any way sure about why pink had to go in reverse) which meant that he would back up all the way to the concourse. However, no one was in the control box to see first hand if the concourse was clear. So, monorail pink did what he was told, not realizing that no one was in the control box to verify that it was safe to back up. Monorail purple was stopped in the concourse when the monorail pink hit it, not realizing it was there.

For the purpose of switching tracks for a return to the barn, Pink had to go in reverse. However, the pilot of Pink was under the assumption from control that his train was switching tracks, thus he was supposed to be in the clear. MAPO must be over-ridden to do the switch.

There were some wondering why Austin did not get out of the pilot room when his MAPO started going off (all the CM's agreed it would have once the pink got too close) but unfortunately, the MAPO doesn't tell you why it is going off, so he may have been looking at the panel to find out what the problem was. Some also wondered why he didn't back up and the idea was put forward that the kill switch made that impossible.

We may never know the answer to this. It's been speculated that maybe he was attempting to, because the doors were all closed, it's also been speculating that Purple was re-booting/starting which occurs from time to time. Regardless, and sadly he was unable to react in time to save himself, from a situation that wasn't supposed to happen.

And of course there are questions about why the monorail pink driver was not looking in his mirrors while he was in reverse to make sure everything was clear and he was on the right track. As well as the questions about why control would authorize the monorail pink to override the MAPO without anyone being there to watch and make sure that everyone was going where they were supposed to go.

From what I've seen, it's too dark for the mirrors to be effective, plus, based on the angle of the rail at that point, I have to wonder if the pilot would've seen anything but his own train until right before impact. From what I've read, this is fairly common practice.

I would not be surprised if this (or something close to it) turns out to be the reason for the crash. I guess all we can do is wait and see, but I think the fact that the monorail is operating again so soon means that all indications are that this was just a terrible, one time occurrance.

Based on the news of re-opening, and new sensors being installed in the switch, it kinda sounds like there might have been a malfunction in the switch, or even an operator error in switching.

[GrumpyFan]

I don't think we will get too many details from the accident. OSHA is strictly for health issues and will not publish findings unless there is a public health issue. The Orange County Sheriff's office will be on a tight leash as well. WDW is one of the largest employers in the area and they are facing large unemployment already.

Not entirely true. OSHA is the agency that oversees workplace Safety AND Health issues. They're a federal agency whose responsibility is to make sure employers provide a safe workplace. The findings they uncover, if not made available, may be accessible thru the Freedom of Information Act (FIFA). But, Disney may also be able to block some of that.

I could see it as a huge advantage publicity wise, to share some of the information, particularly some of the safety improvements made. Regardless, we'll just have to wait and see what happens with it.

[gueli]

First off, my thoughts and prayers go out to the family and friends of Austin along with the entire Disney family. This is a horrible tragedy and will take those most involved in it a long time to recover.

But I would also like to say that my thoughts and prayers go out to the driver of the other monorail as well. He is certainly going to have to live with a lot of guilt no matter what the investigation reveals.

I am also thinking about the family who was on the monorail when the accident occured and I hope that they are all doing ok.

All along I have been thinking about those who were there & those who were involved...
I also think of the guy who was trying his best to help- to get to the driver (not the CM) but the tired & exhausted park guest- who just did all he could think of to try and help.

As to the cameraman & the images being posted- I agree that they should be there. No one here is making anyone go & view them , heck they even come with a disclaimer.

As another comment- I have seen after the 9/11 tradgedies the NYPD telling camera people that 'this isn't disney' & to stop filming. I think in the end, some people can only think to document what has happened. I do not believe that it is wrong.
Condolences.
To the CM's (& family) who lost someone - I offer you my sincerest condolences.
Mike

[MNNHFLTX]

I don't think we will get too many details from the accident. OSHA is strictly for health issues and will not publish findings unless there is a public health issue.

I do not believe this to be true. OSHA exists to protect the health and safety of workers in the workplace. Any incident that results in an injury or fatality to an employee must be investigated and the cause determined. If there is determined to be a failure on the the part of the employer in providing or enforcing proper safety practices, they will issue citations. If there is human error (not the responsibility of the employer) that will be determined too. In any case, this all should be reflected in OSHA's report, which will be available to the public in this incident the same way it has been in all other "accidents" at WDW or Disneyland. I have seen OSHA reports in my workplace in the past and they are very detailed about cause. The fact that they have already released WDW to start their monorail service back up makes me think there were specific things identified as the cause, which are presumably fixed or modified to preventing this happening in the future.

As far as the Orange County's sheriff's office, I agree that they will probably say very little about it except to verify that there was no criminal activity involved.

[fupresti]

I hate to be insensitive and a speculator, but the fact that OSHA released it so soon after the crash tells me this wasn't a mechanical or system error.

[joanna71985]

I hate to be insensitive and a speculator, but the fact that OSHA released it so soon after the crash tells me this wasn't a mechanical or system error.

I agree. I feel what happened was a mistake...a very tragic mistake.

[Ed]

Orlando Channel 9 is reporting that the National Transportation Safety Board is now involved in the investigation. This is the same federal agency that investigates aircraft and railroad accidents.

They are also reporting that guests can no longer ride in the cockpit with the monorail pilots.

Disney monorail accident: NTSB take unprecedented step of investigating fatal Disney World monorail accident

By Scott Powers and Sarah Lundy

Sentinel Staff Writer

6:27 PM EDT, July 6, 2009


The fatal monorail crash at Walt Disney World early Sunday will be probed by the National Transportation Safety Board in an unprecedented move by the federal agency, which normally investigates airplane and public-train crashes.

The NTSB has never before claimed jurisdiction at Walt Disney World, which has provided virtually all of its own safety oversight since it opened in 1971.

The 2 a.m. Sunday crash at the Disney World Transportation and Ticket Center killed Disney monorail pilot Austin Wuennenberg, 21, of Kissimmee. The driver of the second train suffered minor injuries. No passengers reported injuries.

After reviewing preliminary information gathered by Disney World safety investigators, the NTSB decided Monday afternoon to launch a full investigation. An investigator was to fly in from Los Angeles tonight.

The U.S. Occupational Safety and Health Administration and the Orange County Sheriff's Office also are probing the accident.

"We'll be going on scene and working with Disney there. We understand that OSHA is already involved," NTSB spokesman Peter Knudson said. "We'll be looking at operating control systems, and their procedures, and the different procedures they use on the monorail to position trains."

The NTSB investigation is unprecedented. Not only has the federal agency never before sought to investigate a monorail crash at either Disney World or Disneyland in California, Knudson said he could not recall a single investigation involving an all-privately owned transit system operating on private land. But he said NTSB officials determined that they have jurisdiction.

"It is a public transportation system," he said. "It is widely used."

In most states, state departments of transportation set and oversee the safety and operating standards of transit systems, and investigate accidents. There are only two public monorails in the country: One in Seattle that runs one train per track is overseen by the Washington Department of Transportation, while one in Las Vegas, Nev., that runs driverless trains is overseen by Clark County, Nev., authorities.

Due in part to unique Florida state laws written in the 1960s when Walt Disney World was first proposed, the giant resort's rides -- including the monorail -- have been outside the jurisdiction of many state and federal regulatory agencies.

The Florida Department of Transportation's Transit Office, which regulates rail transit systems ranging from the airport-terminal shuttles at Orlando International Airport to the Tri-Rail commuter rail line in South Florida, claims no jurisdiction at Disney World. Nor does the Federal Transit Administration, which also oversees such transit systems nationwide, or the Federal Railroad Commission. The Florida Bureau for Fair Rides Inspection compiles data on Disney ride accidents but does not investigate them.

OSHA's jurisdiction is clear, and that agency regularly investigates workplace accidents at Disney. Two investigators were reviewing the monorail crash site today to understand what happened and determine whether any federal standards were violated. The pair arrived Sunday from Tampa.

The first step for the investigators is to determine what happened. They will visit the crash site and speak to anyone who witnessed the accident. If needed, they will review the data on the monorail's computers.

OSHA spokesman Michael Wald said he did not know how long the two investigators would be at Disney, or how long their investigation would take.

"We are looking at any evidence we can find," Wald said. "We take that information and figure out why it occurred."

If you've ever read an NTSB aircraft accident report (and I've read hundreds of them), you know that NTSB goes into minute detail. I'm very confident they will be issuing a very comprehensive report. But don't look for it next week or even next month; their investigations often take a year or more.

[EeyoresBestFriend]

I'm pretty sure that the family/kids pictured in the video were on the monorail when it happened and got off safely. I wouldn't let it stop me from riding the monorail. I've been in car accidents and I still ride in cars. I have faith that the system will be thoroughly checked and the cause will be discovered and repaired before the system is back up and running. It might stop me from riding in front, though. Chilling footage.

Actually, I will have no problem riding it. After this sad incident, they will go over every aspect of the monorails, computer systems and track. It will probably be the safest thing in the World for a while.

[Ian]

They are also reporting that guests can no longer ride in the cockpit with the monorail pilots.

Hopefully, that's just temporary while they sort out what happened.

[Faver]

Living in DC we went through something similar 2 weeks ago, unfortunately with more casualties......it's terrible


I send my prayers to the monorail driver, his family, friends and co-workers.

[DVC2004]

This is so sad! Prayers for all invloved.

[Marker]

While I too hope this is not a permanent change because I do enjoy riding up front occasinally, I can see how it would be a distraction to the pilot. I know when I've ridden up there I typically chat with the pilot, and that could indeed take his attention away from his primary task. So I could see how this could be a reasonable change.

I'm glad we got a chance to ride up front when we were last there in Sept.

[danwiora]

i know we have all been sitting here the past couple of days trying to figure what could have happend to cause that tragic event but has anyone sat and thought about what we can do as an intercot community to help Austins's family like starting a collection for them or coming up with an idea to honor him like start a petition to have a plaque or something in his rememberence at the ticket and transportation center or retire the color of the monorail he was driving in. something along those lines

[faline]

I am constantly amazed at what a dismal job most human beings do at assessing risk.

First, let me say that this is a very sad time for the family and friends of that cast member. And to each and every one of them, I'd like to say I'm sorry for your loss.

However, life is full of risk which we must confront each and every day. Most of us do not stop flying even after hearing of the most horrific of plane crashes. Most of us return to the ocean/pool/lake even after we are aware of the shark attack or drowning. I suspect that most of us have been involved in at least one car accident at some point in our lives but I also suspect we get back into cars on an almost daily basis.

On the other hand, I have witnessed people in situations which require more care to forge ahead despite what should be obvious danger - the folks I saw hiking the trails at the Grand Canyon who were totally unprepared to be in the wilderness or who climbed a tree at the top of a ledge to get a better picture or who stepped out on an out of bounds ledge for the same reason; the folks that I saw balancing children on the railings high above the raging currents at Niagara Falls. The folks who head into the ocean despite red flag warnings and a lack of life guards.

This incident would not prevent me from using this form of transportation again. If allowed, I would even love to ride with the pilot once again! On the other hand, you probably could not pay me enough to go on a helicoptor tour at any popular tourist destination!