Having doubts about owning DVC

[seanyred]

I concur with Ian...since we are discussing possibly being disappointed with a large purchase, finance is a big part of this.
I've been reading this thread for awhile but reluctant to add anything because I think most of the arguments are on both sides are being well stated. However, I do feel that there is a saturation point with ownership in DVC, in other words owning to many points.

The question is how often do people get sooooo excited about purchasing DVC that they buy to many points because they believe they will use every point every year...Just a thought of where buyers guilt comes from...but that's why when I made my modest purchase I bought just what I needed with the understanding that there will be limitations (I can only stay in Studio for 7 nights a year and during the off season only). But I can always add on in the future if I choose to do so.

And as for the perks...I admit I wish they had more perks for us but I do not see the perks as a reason for purchasing nor a necessity. I first and foremost bought into a timeshare for the accommodations.

One final question to those who have timeshares with other companies: Do they give you outrages discounted perks? And how do they compare to Disney? Just wondering.

[Jeffybob]

Agreed. We also own the minimum point level (150 annually) that was available when we bought in.

We have a timeshare on Maui. There are no extra perks for owning aside from the fact that we own in Hawaii, use it 52 weeks a year with no blackouts and it trades "red".

We have never been disappointed with Disney.

I am realistic about what we are getting for the money spent initially and that is lodging at a deluxe property today, at yesterday's dollars.

Additionally, you do not have to use your membership for only Disney. We have used this timeshare to visit NYC and stay in Manhattan twice and could not have been happier as well as visited Disneyland Paris, where the park tickets for the length of stay were included.

A prospective buyer needs to do the research, compare the choices that are available and see what fits their needs. If you think that it works for you, go for it and if not, don't do it and continue to pay as you go.

-Jeffybob (Boardwalk DVC Member since '98)

2009 - BWV (2), DCL - Eastern Caribbean
2008 - BWV (2)
2007 - BWV
2006 - DLR (2), SSR, BWV, DCL - Western Caribbean
2005 - HH, BWV (2)
2003 - BWV
2002 - BWV, Disneyland Paris
2001 - BWV, DLC - Bahamas
2000 - BWV
1999 - BWV, HH, VB
1998 - BWV, Swan

[lockedoutlogic]

Agreed. We also own the minimum point level (150 annually) that was available when we bought in.

We have a timeshare on Maui. There are no extra perks for owning aside from the fact that we own in Hawaii, use it 52 weeks a year with no blackouts and it trades "red".

We have never been disappointed with Disney.

I am realistic about what we are getting for the money spent initially and that is lodging at a deluxe property today, at yesterday's dollars.

Additionally, you do not have to use your membership for only Disney. We have used this timeshare to visit NYC and stay in Manhattan twice and could not have been happier as well as visited Disneyland Paris, where the park tickets for the length of stay were included.

A prospective buyer needs to do the research, compare the choices that are available and see what fits their needs. If you think that it works for you, go for it and if not, don't do it and continue to pay as you go.

-Jeffybob (Boardwalk DVC Member since '98)

2009 - BWV (2), DCL - Eastern Caribbean
2008 - BWV (2)
2007 - BWV
2006 - DLR (2), SSR, BWV, DCL - Western Caribbean
2005 - HH, BWV (2)
2003 - BWV
2002 - BWV, Disneyland Paris
2001 - BWV, DLC - Bahamas
2000 - BWV
1999 - BWV, HH, VB
1998 - BWV, Swan

Sounds like you have had a great experience....

We also bought the minimum (160), knowing that we would work the calender for maximum usage...

We haven't even had to do that...and we've probably spent somewhere around 12-20 nights a year in WDW with points to spare...


But i do have one thing...I sincerely doubt that the days of DVC throwing in extra perks...such as the included tickets to DLP you mentioned...are long gone...

I'm actually jealous i was but a young lad in the mid 90's and had to go to college instead of buying DVC early....as they used to throw around parkhoppers and annual passes like they were going out of style...

And my inlaws got their points at HHI in 98 for what worked out to be 42 bucks a point....less for their 240 than the 84 a point i got for 160 in 2006

[locutus]

Okay ... I had to read this two or three times before I picked up on where your analysis misses the mark ... I knew something was off, but couldn't put my finger on it.

You only factored in the cost of his annual dues. You forget to factor in the upfront money he paid to buy his points, interest on the financing, lost opportunity cost, etc. amortized across the life of the contract.

His actual annual cost to own is probably at least two to three times the $1,400 he pays in dues. Even if he got a pretty good deal on his 300 points and only paid $80 a point, that means he spent $24,000 to buy his points. If he financed them at the standard Disney rate of 10.25% over 10 years and put down only the required 10% that means his actual cost to buy the points was around $31,000.

That means, assuming he has the full 50 years on his contract, you have to add an additional $620 per year in costs to the equation. And that doesn't count in lost opportunity cost in terms of what he could have earned on that money if he had just banked it.

If he invested the $24,000 over the 50 year period and only earned a modest 5% rate of return, compounded monthly, that would give him about $290,000 at the end of the term. Divide that by the 50 years (subtracting the original $24,000) and it comes to another $5,320 per year ($290,000 - $24,000 = $266,000 / 50 = $5,320) bring his total annual costs to approximately $7,340 per year ($1,400 a year in dues + $620 a year for points purchase and financing + $5,320 per year in lost opportunity cost).

Right again Ian. your good with numbers thats for sure. People seem to only be looking at yearly dues spent and firget all about the money spent on the original purchase. On another note I love SSR.

[dlpmikki]

It does make a big difference when you bought in and whether you finance. I didn't finance, bought in at $50 a point and had 9 years of free entry into the parks. I reckon those 9 years of free entry made a good contribution to covering the initial costs. If I bought in now at $100 it would be a lot harder decision and a much higher cost over the term of membership. But I do think the only way to decide if you like DVC is the emotional one - it is not about money in the same way as an investment. It is about how you feel about the vacations with your family and knowing that you can go back again because you have prepaid a big proportion. I know I wouldn't have got to Disney nearly as much without DVC and I was glad to use the good offers when they had them to Disneyland and DLRP. Offers have changed for better and worse over the years. Who knows what the future will bring - but while you own DVC you know that it can include trips to WDW.

[Mickey'sGirl]

It does make a big difference when you bought in and whether you finance.

I completely agree. We bought our points at the Boardwalk with money we would have spent on a vacation. It would have been spent either way, but this way, we have many years of holiday to look forward to at a fraction of the cost (ie our dues).

Having only been members a short time, and only having just taken our first DVC holiday last month, I have no regrets whatsoever. We had fantastic accomodations, and huge savings on our Annual Passes. Our trip next year will only cost us food (and our annual dues of course). Fantastic for us!

[locutus]

I completely agree. We bought our points at the Boardwalk with money we would have spent on a vacation. It would have been spent either way, but this way, we have many years of holiday to look forward to at a fraction of the cost (ie our dues).

Having only been members a short time, and only having just taken our first DVC holiday last month, I have no regrets whatsoever. We had fantastic accomodations, and huge savings on our Annual Passes. Our trip next year will only cost us food (and our annual dues of course). Fantastic for us!

Mickeysgirl--you are in a good position to understand what I was pondering. It seems great that next year all you need to pay for is food...and dues. But when those dues (depending how many points you have) are added up things get pricey. What hurts is when you think that "hey my rooms paid for I just need food" and then they offer a package for what your dues cost, that includes park tickets OR a dining plan for non members, thats what makes you think.

[Ian]

What hurts is when you think that "hey my rooms paid for I just need food" and then they offer a package for what your dues cost, that includes park tickets OR a dining plan for non members, thats what makes you think.

Yeah, but once that guy pays for his "special deal" he's done. He has nothing left but his memories.

When you're done paying, you have an asset. You own something. You can re-sell it if you choose and make back most, if not all, of the money you spent. The guy who got the "special deal" can't do that.

[Dsnygirl]

Yeah, but once that guy pays for his "special deal" he's done. He has nothing left but his memories.

When you're done paying, you have an asset. You own something. You can re-sell it if you choose and make back most, if not all, of the money you spent. The guy who got the "special deal" can't do that.

You know what Ian, that is one thing I never thought of. We will never get our money back on any of the trips we have already taken, or any of the trips we will still take before we (hopefully ) buy into a DVC.

But once we do, should we change our minds or need the $$ again, we will get reimbursed by re-selling... maybe not every dolloar, but certainly close... and definitely for the trips we have used the DVC for. That right there makes the decision even easier. Gotta run and tell my DH in the morning...

[Ian]

Right and don't forget that if, for some strange reason, you can't take a Disney vacation one year you can always rent your points, too.

The going rate is like $11 per point, so if you rent out say 160 points to someone you're going to take in like $1,700. That should pay most or all of your DVC costs for that entire year!

For example, we own 160 points at SSR. The current cost-per-point for annual dues is $4.34, which means we pay $694.40 per year. We happen to have purchased SSR for cash, but we explored financing and it was going to cost us something like $135 per month. Over 12 months that comes to $1,620.

Add those two up and the typical SSR owner is spending $2,314.40 a year on their membership until the loan is paid off.

So if you rented points for $1,700 you've offset a significant portion of your annual expenses.

[Saintstickets]

I've been reading the posts on this thread and here is my 2 cents (and that is all it is worth!)

For those that feel slighted because of current deals offered by Disney to non-DVC members, here is a suggestion - Pay cash for your trip, take advantage of the deal and rent or transfer your points to pay for the cost of the cash trip. If you do not want to go this route, then bank your points and stay longer next year or upgrade to a GV or go during a premier season.

I too wish that Disney would offer some kind of perk to DVC members in addition to the straight benefits of ownership. But the fact is, at this time, they do not have to. Don't forget, this is a business to them and to offer anything "free" or at a discount to a captive audience reduces the bottom line. It would be nice but as a businessman, I understand why they do not.

As for comparing DVC ownership costs to an amortized or future value of your initial investment, that is apples and oranges. Having X dollars at the end of 50 years compared to what you have spent on points & MF's is not a good comparison. Having those X dollars at the end of 50 years means you did not take the vacations and enjoy the time with your family during that time. Sure you have X dollars but at what cost? Personally I prefer the time with my family and the memories we'll have for the rest of our lives. It's hard to put a price on that!

DVC is not for everybody. Each person's situation is unique and there will ALWAYS be someone that got a great deal that makes one envious. It doesn't matter if it is a "free" dining plan, "free" park tickets, discounted rooms or cheaper price/point thru a reseller vs direct from Disney. We humans always second guess what is a major decision for us. Shrinks call it cognitive dissonance where we experience anxiety that leads one to rationalize a decision or get upset because of the decision. You make the best decision you can at the time with the information you have, what is right for your family and go from there.

I love the idea of DVC ownership and am in the process of closing on my first point purchase right now. I bought a small contract and will try it for a while to see if it is all I think it is cracked up to be. If it is, I will buy more when able. If it is not, I will sell and move on. It's the right decision for me at this time in my life. Hopefully each and every one of you will have a positive experience and enjoy the opportunities that DVC ownership can afford you. GLTA

[seanyred]

We humans always second guess what is a major decision for us. Shrinks call it cognitive dissonance where we experience anxiety that leads one to rationalize a decision or get upset because of the decision. You make the best decision you can at the time with the information you have, what is right for your family and go from there.

GLTA

First off Welcome to Intercot.
Second Congrats on your new DVC purchase.

Being a therapist I would like to offer a different view point of cognitive dissonance. Your definition is accurate but there are many ways cognitive dissonance can bring positive change/decision making, instead of just anxiety or rationalization. However, I do agree with you that buying into DVC or any Vacation Club should be based on how it works for you and your family and if you can afford it. (in that order).

Family First

[Ian]

As for comparing DVC ownership costs to an amortized or future value of your initial investment, that is apples and oranges. Having X dollars at the end of 50 years compared to what you have spent on points & MF's is not a good comparison. Having those X dollars at the end of 50 years means you did not take the vacations and enjoy the time with your family during that time. Sure you have X dollars but at what cost? Personally I prefer the time with my family and the memories we'll have for the rest of our lives. It's hard to put a price on that!

Well said!

[locutus]

But those memories will be yours regardless no matter how you paid for it. And by the way Disney is again offering free admissions for length of your stay at Liberty Travel.

[MidnTPK]

But those memories will be yours regardless no matter how you paid for it. And by the way Disney is again offering free admissions for length of your stay at Liberty Travel.

That's not accurate....Liberty is offering the same buy 4 get 3 free that every Disney outlet is currently offering. Not a free 7 day pass for everyone on your reservation, but get a 7 day pass when you buy a 4 day one, a whopping $9.58 (3.8%) discount per person for tickets.