New DVC Resort?

[Ian]

I've been hearing/reading some rumors that Disney may be planning a new DVC over by Ft. Wilderness.

Supposedly, it will be (not shockingly) a wild west themed resort. Allegedly, it will involve removing the remnants of River Country, as well.

Anyone else heard anything like this?

[JPL]

I hope they are true I would love another option to stay at

[PopPhan]

There is another thread on INTERCOT (somewhere -- it escapes me right now) about a new resort being in the offing -- it did not, however, say anything about DVC. I replied in that thread that I expected that it would be DVC and kind of pooh-poohed the thought.

Somebody in the corporate offices needs to learn what Walt Disney was all about with the creation of Disneyland (the advent of the current group of parks) -- They were to be places where families could go and enjoy themselves as families -- NOT where only the WEALTHY could bring their families.

BUT, I guess as long as there are still people who will fork out the thousands upon thousands of dollars to buy in to a fancy timeshare scheme, they'll keep on building them and pricing everyone else out.....

Sorry! This is a personal peeve and I tend to rant over it!

[DizneyRox]

Sounds like there's already some infrastructure over at River Country, so why not. DVC properties don't really bother me so much, they tend to be quieter than the non-DVC properties. Wild West though? Not really my cup of tea...

[tundramom]

- They were to be places where families could go and enjoy themselves as families -- NOT where only the WEALTHY could bring their families.
BUT, I guess as long as there are still people who will fork out the thousands upon thousands of dollars to buy in to a fancy timeshare scheme, they'll keep on building them and pricing everyone else out.....
Sorry! This is a personal peeve and I tend to rant over it!

I think this a bit harsh, not saying I don't respect your opinion, but would like to point out that not all DVC owners are "wealthy" and DVC is not "pricing everyone else out".
We made a decision to buy based on the amount of money we were spending to vacation at WDW yearly. We are by no means wealthy-strictly middle-class- however my DH and I both do work full time. We save aggressively for vacations and other than an occasional meal out we don't spend much on entertainment. We rarely go to movies (except a new Disney release like Alice), don't drink or smoke, and don't go to things like concerts or pro/college sports events (as much as we'd love to go to a Buckeyes game, can't justify $100's for tickets). Vacations are our yearly splurge, the year we bought in we stayed 10 nights at WL, at the time, the cost of that trip was nearly 1/3 of our buy in, instead we get many years of resort stays. As far as pricing people out, the price of the other resorts haven't changed significantly with the increase of DVC membership. Unlike the public, DVC members never get free dining or "free" days on their park tickets, they have our money and know we'll buy tickets and meals. And, finally, in reference to the original intent of the post, if they do develop that area, what difference does it make if it's DVC? You currently don't have access to that area anyways. If that is where you always dreamed of staying you can always book there online once it opens/ just like the treehouse villas. Many DVC members can't get reservations at the treehouses because nonDVC'ers have paid out of pocket for them-probably because this is where they always wanted to stay.

[BellesRose]

I would LOVE this!

[PopPhan]

I think this a bit harsh, not saying I don't respect your opinion, but would like to point out that not all DVC owners are "wealthy" and DVC is not "pricing everyone else out".
We made a decision to buy based on the amount of money we were spending to vacation at WDW yearly. We are by no means wealthy-strictly middle-class- however my DH and I both do work full time. We save aggressively for vacations and other than an occasional meal out we don't spend much on entertainment. We rarely go to movies (except a new Disney release like Alice), don't drink or smoke, and don't go to things like concerts or pro/college sports events (as much as we'd love to go to a Buckeyes game, can't justify $100's for tickets). Vacations are our yearly splurge, the year we bought in we stayed 10 nights at WL, at the time, the cost of that trip was nearly 1/3 of our buy in, instead we get many years of resort stays. As far as pricing people out, the price of the other resorts haven't changed significantly with the increase of DVC membership. Unlike the public, DVC members never get free dining or "free" days on their park tickets, they have our money and know we'll buy tickets and meals. And, finally, in reference to the original intent of the post, if they do develop that area, what difference does it make if it's DVC? You currently don't have access to that area anyways. If that is where you always dreamed of staying you can always book there online once it opens/ just like the treehouse villas. Many DVC members can't get reservations at the treehouses because nonDVC'ers have paid out of pocket for them-probably because this is where they always wanted to stay.

DVC rooms, for the non-member are as expensive, or more so, than the Deluxe resorts (i.e. over $300/night in the "Value Season"). The number of "affordable" rooms (i.e. under $100/night in the "Value Season") is not increasing accordingly. How many "Value" rooms have been added since Pop Century opened in 2003? Now, how many DVC rooms have been added? Also, some of the existing "Value" rooms were taken to make into "Family Suites" at more than twice the price of a regular room.

In a down economy, those will limited resources are being told to that since we don't have the $$$ for Moderate, Deluxe, or DVC accommodations, we just don't matter.

Harsh, I don't think so, just realistic.

[tundramom]

I can't imagine another hotelier that crunches numbers more than Disney, if the demand was there for Value resorts they would have finished POP as originally planned. It's not like they would turn away a whole segment of the population, once you are there the dollars you spend are essentially the same as anyone else's. As DVCer's we actually spend less than in the past on the merchandise/extras. Whereas, folks that don't go as frequently probably spend more.

[Zone Stop]

I can't imagine another hotelier that crunches numbers more than Disney

Exactly. I can promise you that if the demand is large enough to supply (such as opening the second half of pop, versus adding one additional building), Disney will do it posthaste. Unfortunately, it looks like you, like myself, tend to be in the minority on things like this.

[JPL]

Disney is trying to keep up with the demand for DVC. I can say as a DVC it gets more difficult each year to get a DVC room on property. They also recently just addressed the demand for Luxury accomadations by adding the 4 Seasons resort & Million $ homes. Now these are 2 things I will most likely never get to enjoy but I see the need for them. What should concern people more than rooms they can't afford is the constant rise in ticket prices and airfare. I also think Disney feels that there are plenty of Hotel Rooms under $100 a night offsite so it's not worth competeing with them. I have a friend who just stayed offsite for $29 a night and said he felt like he was closer to the parks than the times he stayed on Disney Property!

[BellesRose]

DVC rooms, for the non-member are as expensive, or more so, than the Deluxe resorts

Sorry, but I have to disagree with that. It's much cheaper to stay at Saratoga Springs than the Wilderness Lodge. Personally, I feel that all of the Villas are a much better deal than any of the other resorts.

[BrerGnat]

I heard about this too, but it wasn't "wild west" theme, it was "upscale wilderness cabins/duplexes", like, the type of luxury cabins you'd find in mountain resorts (NOT like the Ft. Wilderness "porta cabins").

I could see a niche for this. However, I find the area near Ft. Wilderness to be dreadfully secluded. I'd not be interested in ever staying in that area. The furthest that way I'll ever go is WL. And, it should be noted that WL DVC is strikingly similar in theme to this idea, so I'm not sure how popular it would be.

Really, though, I think they need to make sure they can fill the rooms they DO have (as close to 100% as possible) before investing in MORE rooms on property.

[seanyred]

haven't heard this yet but it sounds fun. Plus I like that it might be a little secluded, that's one of the main reaaons I love Kidani Village.

as for the DVC is only for the wealthy. I own and I am very much middle class and the long term cost made more sense for us. If the demand is high they will build more.

and as for more value resorts. Did we forget about the new resort that is being built were POP was supposed to be finished.

there is something for everyone.

[DizneyRox]

Remember that the cost of building the resorts is pretty much "financed" by those owning at that resort. A normal resort takes a lot longer to become profitable. There's a reason they put the brakes on finishing out Pop Century and that's they were building too fast and wouldn't have been able to fill it. In that time, I beleive SSR has sold out, and I would guess that Kidani is well along that path and even BLT.

Judging by the discounts well into next year already released, they are still having trouble filling rooms.

Make what you can sell...

[Ian]

Disney isn't stupid. They go where the money (i.e. the demand) is.

The deluxe resorts on Disney property fill up fast. More specifically, the high-end rooms in the deluxe resorts fill up even faster. Just try to get an MK view room at the Contemporary on short notice. Good luck with that.

It's the moderates where they tend to have the most issue filling rooms. There are always cheerleader competitions and Pop Warner football teams to fill up the value rooms, so they don't sweat those too much. But the true "value" guest who wants to pay under $100 a night for a hotel room is probably going to go stay at a Best Western or something like that anyway, so Disney isn't going to build out more low-end rooms when that's not what their guests want.

And as far as DVC goes, it's selling and it's a great business model for them. They get heads in beds and it costs them (literally) nothing. The resorts are self-sustaining, paid for by the owners. It's a brilliant business model, so there's no way they're going to back off of it.

[PopPhan]

Sorry, but I have to disagree with that. It's much cheaper to stay at Saratoga Springs than the Wilderness Lodge. Personally, I feel that all of the Villas are a much better deal than any of the other resorts.

Only if you are looking at Wilderness Lodge Villas rather than Wilderness Lodge in general.

Wilderness Lodge "from" $240/night
Saratoga Springs Villas "from" $295/night
Wilderness Lodge Villas "from" $330/night

These numbers were taken directly from the WDW Online site.

Look, I'm not trying to fight, I'm just making a statement that "reasonably priced" lodging "In The Magic" is being supplanted by timeshare properties. A few respondents even go so far as to say that if we want "reasonably priced" we would be much better off staying off-property - as if we are 'second class' visitors.

Value visitors are already being considered "lower class" in that the offers are more and more scaled back every year - "Free DDP" => only QS, where all other resorts get Standard; talk (and yes, I know it is only rumor) of charging for parking IF you stay Value; etc. If this is the case, Disney should just sell off the Value resorts and be done with it. Certainly would help their bottom line.....

Ian, and others, has a good point about the business model and DisneyRox's point on the financing structure for construction -- I grant those points and agree. I just find it very unfortunate that, where Disney Parks are concerned, the thought that an affordable family vacation can be had "In The Magic," is becoming a fading memory.

Again, sorry for the rant....I'm done now!!

[azcavalier]

You know, DVC can be pretty inexpensive. My DW and I bought someone else's contract for OKW just a few years ago. We bought 25 points, for something like $2400. What can 25 points a year do, you ask? Well, we've had it for four years, and it's enough so that every other year, we can stay for a week (Mon-Fri) in a studio. The first time we stayed at Boardwalk. This last trip in May we stayed at the Villas at Wilderness Lodge. We basically use it for our anniversary trip every 2-3 years. At least, that's our plan. And with those rooms paid for, and we can fly to Orlando from Virginia for $100/person round trip, then all we have to do is pay for food and park tickets.

We're not rich. We just didn't buy a lot of points, and didn't buy what we do have from Disney. There are a lot of DVC contracts that you can buy resale, for relatively little money.

[Ian]

I just find it very unfortunate that, where Disney Parks are concerned, the thought that an affordable family vacation can be had "In The Magic," is becoming a fading memory.
Again, sorry for the rant....I'm done now!!

I definitely don't think you're ranting and I wasn't really disagreeing with what you were saying, I was just giving what I think Disney's viewpoint is.

But I do agree with you ... there's no doubt it's becoming more difficult for families on a budget to enjoy staying on property.

[Ian]

There are a lot of DVC contracts that you can buy resale, for relatively little money.

Quite true. I've seen some SSR contracts lately going for under $70 per point.

And the thing is, if you believe that DVC is a good value (which I openly admit not everyone does) then buying it is actually a better move financially for those with limited budgets vs. paying cash.

I know that in recent years, with the dismal economy, we've all gotten used to being able to find good discounts and deals on Disney trips, but trust me ... those will be going away sooner rather than later. If you all of a sudden find yourself paying rack rates for rooms, DVC will start looking like a significantly better investment.

[Aurora]

I know River Country is completely unrepairable and I'm not saying they should've rebuilt it (although I do miss it), but if the rumor is true, it's too bad that another resort would go there instead of another attraction. Or if they were to build a resort, it would be great if it were a combination of resort/DVC/new smaller attraction, like Pirate Swamp or something.