WashPost - Disney parks unreachable for middle class

[Mendelson]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/b...-class-behind/

[EeyoresBestFriend]

This made me sad.

I see a lot of truth in it. It is expensive. Especially when prices keep increasing and the experiences, entertainment magic, parades and extras that make it wonderful are disappearing. You get less each time you go there for an increasing cost.

I know that Disney keeps their conscience soothed by sticking to "Walt was a progressive, forward thinker", I'm not so sure he would be happy with this now.

Disney seems to be truly going toward being for 'Princesses and Royalty only'. Again, as long as people keep going . . .

[WiltonJohn]

Right here is the crux of the matter in the whole article (and in the situation as it sits):

"But some see Disney’s magically ascending price tag as a reflection of the country’s economy, where stagnant wages and growing inequality have transformed even the way Americans take time off.

When Walt created Disneyland, this was a middle-class country. But Disney now . . . as far as pricing out the middle class, they think: What middle class?” said Robert Niles, the editor of Theme Park Insider, an industry blog. "

-excerpted under "Fair Use".

Not much different from stuff like skiing and snowboarding, golf, scuba diving, sailing, and other such recreational pursuits.

Anyone been to a MOVIE lately? Did you get a good mortgage rate?

best,

..................john

[Terra]

Right here is the crux of the matter in the whole article (and in the situation as it sits):

"But some see Disney’s magically ascending price tag as a reflection of the country’s economy, where stagnant wages and growing inequality have transformed even the way Americans take time off.

When Walt created Disneyland, this was a middle-class country. But Disney now . . . as far as pricing out the middle class, they think: What middle class?” said Robert Niles, the editor of Theme Park Insider, an industry blog. "

-excerpted under "Fair Use".

Not much different from stuff like skiing and snowboarding, golf, scuba diving, sailing, and other such recreational pursuits.

Anyone been to a MOVIE lately? Did you get a good mortgage rate?

best,

..................john

Quite true.

I adore Disney. Price is really one of my only complaints. Though to be fair I guess it can't really be a complaint. Life has always been like that. There are some things, that some people simply won't ever be able to afford.

The only way we really get to go is because we are residents and live so close, and they offer that payment plan. As a lower middle class family, this allows us to take advantage of it and enjoy. Even little things like Disney allowing you to bring in your own food helps.

I can't imagine living out of state. You'd certainly have to prepare for a long time [in our income bracket]. The good news is that at least you can book out quite a bit and make payments. And it is neat concept that Disney lets you do a "savings account" and calculates how much you should put in to reach your vacation goal.

I am very thankful that we have been able to be so close and to be able to give my boys the wonderful magic.

[BrerGnat]

The biggest issue is that everyone thinks they are middle class, but what exactly IS middle class? Seems to be a pretty large spread, income wise. Are articles like these really talking about the low end of the scale or what?

I mean, I am fairly certain that we are middle class. One income military household of four. But we can easily afford pretty nice vacations,including to WDW. But, it is because we don't spend a lot of money on other things. We don't have expensive cars, clothes, or furniture. We rent our home. We don't have expensive hobbies, etc. We still save for retirement and kids college.

Life is about balance. Whether "middle class" people can afford WDW trips is less a reflection of their income and more about their spending habits in general. I hate articles like this one that try and put everyone into the same category.

[BrerGnat]

Furthermore, the examples of the splurges in the article are NOT things that middle class people tend to do anyway. Other than maybe the dessert party. We certainly COULD eat $115 steaks and stay in hotel rooms that cost $2100/night. Do we? Absolutely not.

That doesn't mean that I am being "priced out" of WDW. Come on...

[Terra]

Good points Natalie. Middle class can depend from city to city, state to state [in just looking at sheer numbers]. We're a two income family. Our yearly income is $50K-ish jointly. In our area that is middle class.

We're the same too. Rent, we actually have "older" paid off vehicles, we don't even have cable, fancy cell phone contracts, etc. We do simple straight forward pre pay phones. Do Netflix/Hulu/Roku streaming.
We really don't eat out much [other than some happy meals].
Which is another way we make Disney happen.

So yeah there are certainly variables. We wouldn't stay in overpriced a night resorts either. Sure it would be fun. Just can't justify the price.

[Mendelson]

I don't want to make judgment based on looks, but I see a lot of people at Disney who I'm going to guess are not high income. And I mean, a lot.

That said, I really do wonder how lower income folks make the trip. You start pricing things out and the $ rings up really quickly on a Disney vacation, even if you buy few souvenirs, stay off site, pack lots of food, etc. It's just hard to get in and out for less than a couple grand if you're staying for several days and have a family of four. I think $2K is a pretty big vacation for a lower income family.

[TheVBs]

I don't know what "middle class" means anymore either. I feel like that's our category, and like others have said here, we don't spend a lot on other stuff either. But, you certainly don't have to have a lot of expendable income to go to Disney. I know a couple that go frequently and I think they've charged themselves up to the eyeballs in debt to do it.

[Terra]

I don't want to make judgment based on looks, but I see a lot of people at Disney who I'm going to guess are not high income. And I mean, a lot.

That said, I really do wonder how lower income folks make the trip. You start pricing things out and the $ rings up really quickly on a Disney vacation, even if you buy few souvenirs, stay off site, pack lots of food, etc. It's just hard to get in and out for less than a couple grand if you're staying for several days and have a family of four. I think $2K is a pretty big vacation for a lower income family.

What does a low income person look like?

[WiltonJohn]

What does a low income person look like?

They likely are not wearing Prada, Gucchi, or Brooks Brothers .

best,

.................john

[Terra]

They likely are not wearing Prada, Gucchi, or Brooks Brothers .

best,

.................john

Just what I was thinking

Heck I go in jean shorts, a t-shirt, and my walmart sneakers. I must look low income too Ha, and we're close too it.

[ibelieveindisneymagic]

Disney is an expensive vacation. But, any vacation we go on seems to cost a lot. We're not fancy people, but things just add up.

Is Disney pricing itself out of the so-called middle class? (and like the rest of you, I wonder what really is "middle-class" these days) Probably. And, like everyone else, we make choices that allow us to go to Disney, don't buy a lot of "stuff" and save up.

So, all of this to say, yes, Disney is out of the price range of a lot of people, but it always was. Think about how hard travel was when Disneyland opened, it wasn't like you could just fly there for a week or so.

What I do hope is that we don't get to a point where you HAVE to do all of the extras to enjoy your vacation. They are extras, but you can still enjoy your trip without them, at least for now.

[Mendelson]

What does a low income person look like?

Ha, I knew I'd wade into it on that one!

[Terra]

Ha, I knew I'd wade into it on that one!

LOL I'm just busting your chops.
I will say that it seems like I see a bit more shall we say skimpy clothing than I have in the past.

[SBETigg]

I actually think Disney offers more affordable vacation opportunities now than it did in the past. On my first trip, in 1981, we saved for a long time to be able to afford to stay on property. There were only a few choices of resorts, and they were all expensive and what are now Deluxe level resorts (the Contemporary, the Polynesian, the Disney Inn, and the Treehouses) or Fort Wilderness was an option for campers.

We had to make reservations over a year in advance and even then we had to stay offsite for half the trip due to lack of availability. We were thrilled when a few days opened up at the Contemporary. It was expensive, but we thought of it as a once-in-a-lifetime trip at the time. Now people of all (most) income levels stay on property and come back for multiple trips without saving for years or breaking the bank... though of course, some people do. But is it that it has really become any more expensive relative to income levels, more inattainable, or that we're a more entitled society now? Going to Disney World or Land has never been an "everyone can do this, any time" opportunity.

[NJDad]

The 27 bucks a night my dad spent at the Polynesian would be around 150 bucks today. With one fewer kid and a 'higher' salary I can't even consider paying for a room there now.

[BrerGnat]

The 27 bucks a night my dad spent at the Polynesian would be around 150 bucks today. With one fewer kid and a 'higher' salary I can't even consider paying for a room there now.

Not really. Back in the 70's, we were still on the gold standard. $27 bucks back in the 70's (translated to its worth in gold today) would be a LOT more than $150.

Economics is tricky, and inflation is not as simple as that.

[DizneyRox]

... I go in jean shorts...

Oh no you didn't!

Seriously, some will argue there isn't a middle class in America anymore. I don't pass judgement on other based on how much they make, how they look, where they live, etc. I pass judgement on their actions. I will admit however, I have great difficulty in understanding how some people live at they level they do with what they make. Single income just doesn't compute with me, even one of our salaries is very high and I can't imagine living on that. I amazing how people can make that work. Kudos!

[MNNHFLTX]

The 27 bucks a night my dad spent at the Polynesian would be around 150 bucks today. With one fewer kid and a 'higher' salary I can't even consider paying for a room there now.

But could you afford a room at a value or moderate resort?

We went once to WDW when I was 15 and stayed off-site in Clermont (not even that close to Disney World!) I think my family probably could have afforded to stay onsite at the time, but my Dad was frugal. I guess that's something he passed down to me.

As far as what defines middle class, some economist suggest it is 50% above and below the median income in any given area. Nationally, that would be about $25,000--$76,000. Certainly those at the low end of that range would have a very difficult time affording any Disney World vacation. But for those at the mid to upper end I would think there would be options. It may mean saving for a few years or staying at the lower end resorts and not eating out as much, though, and maybe re-evaluating what you spend money on otherwise. My husband and I went through many lean years early in our marriage, mainly because I opted to work a flexible schedule part-time so that I could stay home more with our son. But we always managed to put money aside for travel, including WDW trips. It depends what your priorities are, at least in our situation. We didn't have a big house or the latest and greatest anything, but we valued experiences over material goods. Now things are pretty good for us, but we still carry forward that mentality.

I do think there's some truth to that article, but I don't buy into the entire theory. Not that I defend the Disney PTB mindset of profits above all else, but as long as people are filling up the parks (and that's not just the top 10% of income earners!) and willing to pay the cost, they have no reason to slow down the rate of price increases.