The Cuts... They Just Keep on Coming

[WiltonJohn]

It is funny that you do not like being accused of being blinded by the pixie dust, yet you can generalize that those of us bringing up issues are saying that it is impossible to have a good time and that the world is coming to an end.

Just to be precise in what I actually said. Not a generalization. Never said that people having other views are invalid (as some others often imply). Just the expectation that some will pounce... as they always seem to do on anyone who says positive things about Disney on the forums.

And yes... I'm sure some folks here will just think the pixie dust is all over us, that we are blind, and the end of the World is nigh.

best,

..............john

[PopPhan]

I'm reserving judgement on the future of WDW. Only time will tell what these changes will lead to. It is a mess to deal with while they are building new areas (Avatar, Star Wars, Toy Story). Once those areas open, especially Star Wars, attendance will likely increase significantly. How this will play out is unknown.

I am in agreement with this statement.

Change is inevitable. Walt Disney not only accepted this to be true, but welcomed it -- good, bad or indifferent. Some will love (strongly like?) the changes. Some will loathe (strongly dislike?) the changes. Most will, in the words of REO Speedwagon, roll with the changes.

[joonyer]

Joonyer, what I think your family restaurant analogy might be missing is the reality that there probably were complaints in the golden days. Perhaps though, because there wasn't the massive volume of guests that there are today, with the ability to complain on a platform that has a global reach, that possibly it's easy to look back and say that every guest was satisfied back then. I do still think it's extremely likely that quality control was far more tightly managed than it is today. But, having only been there once or twice as a kid in the early days, I don't really have an appropriate perspective on that. Not arguing with you, just a thought.

Yeah, there have probably always been some complaints. My first trip to WDW was in 1971. MK was the only park and had only been open a few weeks. I had no complaints; as a teenager I thought it was the greatest, most exciting vacation trip ever. But I remember my Dad complaining about how expensive he thought everything was. It was still worth every penny in my eyes. Of course it wasn't my money.

[baldburke]

Interesting thoughts here in the later comments. Tim Cook isn't Steve Jobs and never will be, but the debates abound as to whether Tim is up to par vs. Steve and where the company might have been had he not passed. Bob Iger is the 8th man to sit at the helm of Disney since Walt. Certainly the comparisons to Walt and Steve Jobs abound and Disney is the kind of company that needs a Walt or Steve to run it.

Regardless, in looking at the names that have come since Walt you would definitely have to put Bob Iger in the top 3 as far as what he has accomplished for Disney. Yes, the opinion of some may be that the parks are currently in a waning state. However it is core to the Disney business and not going away, so if the magic is gone for you then hang as it is bound to return sooner than later. For us, Disney and all of its parts are still special to our family and probably always will be.

[Park Hopper]

Just to be precise in what I actually said. Not a generalization. Never said that people having other views are invalid (as some others often imply). Just the expectation that some will pounce... as they always seem to do on anyone who says positive things about Disney on the forums.

Fair enough. I guess I took the part below wrong, in which I thought you were questioning why those of us that have concerns are commenting:

Like the VBs, when it gets to the point that the value is not there for the $ for us... we'll stop going. And rather than vent over and over and over on forums, we'll just say "oh well" and move on.

[dlpmikki]

We don't like fp+ because we don't like planning that far in advance. But that may be better for other folks. We are getting a bit bored of wdw but we have been going over 20 years thanks to DVC. We are going again in May and have bought annual passes in the hopes we will want some winter sun. Sadly hard to get enthusiasm up.

[WiltonJohn]

I think that people going every year or even multiple times a year likely are not the target for the business plan. Keeping an operation like WDW changing fast enough to keep people who do that from feeling a bit "bored" with things not evolving fast enough..... wow.... tough task.

I think they are likely more concerned about he "occasional visitor" than the "addict".

But.... I'm not in the corporate offices or boardroom... so I haven't a clue, really. Just personal opinions. Everyone's got one.

best,

...................john

[Tekneek]

I think that people going every year or even multiple times a year likely are not the target for the business plan. Keeping an operation like WDW changing fast enough to keep people who do that from feeling a bit "bored" with things not evolving fast enough..... wow.... tough task.

While some of the former regulars complain about there not being enough new things to do, most I know express concerns over the decline in customer service. Amongst other concerns with the decline, Disney now subscribes to the 'apologies are good enough' customer service mindset (which is not excellent or superior, an apology that is not backed by some action is an empty platitude).

[WiltonJohn]

........ Disney now subscribes to the 'apologies are good enough' customer service mindset (which is not excellent or superior, an apology that is not backed by some action is an empty platitude).

I was just wondering how you are aware of this formal company policy?

[Tekneek]

I was just wondering how you are aware of this formal company policy?

Seems pretty evident from their actions, which is all any entity can be judged by. The contrast between the past 5 or 6 years and before was noticeable to me as a guest and I'm not the only one. If the policies have not changed, then somebody has gone rogue in middle management. One example are the apology letters sent out regarding construction in the resorts. They don't include offers to adjust locations to an area not being worked on or a discount on the rate (given the obvious less than ideal conditions), they simply apologize as if that makes it worth the same rate.

[1DisneyNut]

I think that people going every year or even multiple times a year likely are not the target for the business plan. Keeping an operation like WDW changing fast enough to keep people who do that from feeling a bit "bored" with things not evolving fast enough..... wow.... tough task.

I think they are likely more concerned about he "occasional visitor" than the "addict".

But.... I'm not in the corporate offices or boardroom... so I haven't a clue, really. Just personal opinions. Everyone's got one.

best,

...................john

While some of the former regulars complain about there not being enough new things to do, most I know express concerns over the decline in customer service. Amongst other concerns with the decline, Disney now subscribes to the 'apologies are good enough' customer service mindset (which is not excellent or superior, an apology that is not backed by some action is an empty platitude).

It is obvious they are completely focused on the first time and occasional visitor right now and are giving the long time regulars the sorry about that attitude. This is typical short sighted corporate all about making as much as we can right now while we can money grabbing. It is unsustainable and as it always does, will blow up in their face at some point.

Here is something to chew on for those that think the current business plan is sustainable: WDW is estimated to have an annual attendance of over 50 million visitors per year with Magic Kingdom having an estimated over 50,000 guests on average per day. Now think about that for a moment and do the math. Now, how long can they focus on and fill the park with new visitors before that market is tapped out? It doesn't matter what percentage you throw at the numbers, they cannot fill the parks with a significant proportion of new visitors every day. They must retain repeat customers or the place will turn into a ghost town eventually.

I was just wondering how you are aware of this formal company policy?

Seems pretty evident from their actions, which is all any entity can be judged by. The contrast between the past 5 or 6 years and before was noticeable to me as a guest and I'm not the only one. If the policies have not changed, then somebody has gone rogue in middle management. One example are the apology letters sent out regarding construction in the resorts. They don't include offers to adjust locations to an area not being worked on or a discount on the rate (given the obvious less than ideal conditions), they simply apologize as if that makes it worth the same rate.

It is completely obvious. It isn't like they are going to have a press conference and say "For now, we are focused on new customers so whatever with you regulars." Their actions speak themselves.

Our last trip in November, we did enjoy the rides and attractions but they sure did make it awfully aggravating and a lot of work to set up and do which results in you not wanting to be in much of a hurry to go back.

[j2k]

It is obvious they are completely focused on the first time and occasional visitor right now and are giving the long time regulars the sorry about that attitude. This is typical short sighted corporate all about making as much as we can right now while we can money grabbing. It is unsustainable and as it always does, will blow up in their face at some point.

Here is something to chew on for those that think the current business plan is sustainable: WDW is estimated to have an annual attendance of over 50 million visitors per year with Magic Kingdom having an estimated over 50,000 guests on average per day. Now think about that for a moment and do the math. Now, how long can they focus on and fill the park with new visitors before that market is tapped out? It doesn't matter what percentage you throw at the numbers, they cannot fill the parks with a significant proportion of new visitors every day. They must retain repeat customers or the place will turn into a ghost town eventually.

None of us truly know what the strategy is. At the end of the day they are a public corporation. It's a tough balance to please Wall Street and guests. Not everyone will be happy with the decisions they make.

[j2k]

None of us truly know what the strategy is. At the end of the day they are a public corporation. It's a tough balance to please Wall Street and guests. Not everyone will be happy with the decisions they make.

Doh! I meant publicly traded corporation.

[WiltonJohn]

Their actions speak themselves.

Their actions are able to be interpreted by people who have those particular actions to observe. That certain people have those situations to observe, does not mean that ALL people are having those same interactions.

There is a huge level of "opinion" involved in any individual interpreting the meaning/intent of any actions and also to extrapolating the number of similar actions that are occurring.

Customer service training in major businesses focuses on the fact that people who are dissatisfied with your service/product will complain at a rate at least 10 times the rate at which happy customers will tell anyone about their experiences at all. I think this is clearly reflected in the forums also.

best,

.................john

[SurferStitch]

A friend of mine JUST texted me about 10 minutes ago about her trip to WDW last week. She said it was horrendous. She didn't go into detail.... I'll get that later. But... she did say that she and her party were given free dining plans, free 6-day park hoppers and 5 night hotel stay for a future trip because of their complaints. I was surprised she got THAT much. She's definitely taking advantage of that offer!! I hope her next trip is much more magical!

She was there for the latest run event they had (5K, 10K.... no idea).

[WiltonJohn]

Customer service training in major businesses focuses on the fact that people who are dissatisfied with your service/product will complain at a rate at least 10 times the rate at which happy customers will tell anyone about their experiences at all.

A friend of mine JUST texted me about 10 minutes ago about her trip to WDW last week. She said it was horrendous.)

1

best,

...............john

[1DisneyNut]

Their actions are able to be interpreted by people who have those particular actions to observe. That certain people have those situations to observe, does not mean that ALL people are having those same interactions.

There is a huge level of "opinion" involved in any individual interpreting the meaning/intent of any actions and also to extrapolating the number of similar actions that are occurring.

Customer service training in major businesses focuses on the fact that people who are dissatisfied with your service/product will complain at a rate at least 10 times the rate at which happy customers will tell anyone about their experiences at all. I think this is clearly reflected in the forums also.

best,

.................john

All you really said in all that was people have different opinions and you mostly only hear the negative ones. I think we all already know we have different opinions. The only way a company a knows they have dissatisfied customers is if they complain. If we don't voice our displeasure, they will think everything is just great and we are loving it. So anyway, that is exactly what we are doing and as you can see in this thread, there are far more than your average amount of dissatisfied customers right now.

A friend of mine JUST texted me about 10 minutes ago about her trip to WDW last week. She said it was horrendous. She didn't go into detail.... I'll get that later. But... she did say that she and her party were given free dining plans, free 6-day park hoppers and 5 night hotel stay for a future trip because of their complaints. I was surprised she got THAT much. She's definitely taking advantage of that offer!! I hope her next trip is much more magical!

She was there for the latest run event they had (5K, 10K.... no idea).

Wow, the wheels must have really come off the bus if they gave her that much compensation. I would imagine they are being bombarded with complaints right now and may be starting to do damage control.

[WiltonJohn]

So anyway, that is exactly what we are doing and as you can see in this thread, there are far more than your average amount of dissatisfied customers right now.

Actually no... sorry, but I can't "see" that. What we see here is a terribly small sample of people complaining, compared to the average Disney attendance in an hour/day/week/year/ etc. A statistically inaccurate sample size and method... and any conclusions made follow right off of that inaccuracy.

THAT is a point I am making. Just because an individual comes to such conclusions from a limited data set does not make the conclusions somehow "true".

People can state that they had a good time and value for their money... and people can say that they had a bad time and no value for their money. BOTH are perfectly valid observations of personal experiences, for sure. To extrapolate beyond that level unless you have access to data that only Disney has.... is pure conjecture.

As a side note... if a person is dissatisfied with their Disney experiences, I imagine they'd likely have more impact on the company by writing or calling them directly. While it is possible that they read all this stuff on the forums, it is also possible that they don't.

best,

................john

[Stu29573]

Actually, I have said that I am speaking for my family, and if others are satisfied with the current state of things, I'm happy for them. However, its just not magic for my family any more....which is sad because we were the biggest Disney World fans you would ever likely meet. If you are happy and haven't lost the magic, then I really am happy for (and envious of) you. By the way, I did contact Disney about our experiences, but I really doubt it did much good.

[TheVBs]

I can share that our experience with sharing any problems we've experienced with customer service or CMs have definitely not been met with just a "sorry, deal with it" response. This includes our two most recent trips.