Disney to expand monorail?

[NYC WDW Fan]

I know, I know . . . we all want it to happen but it's supposedly not feasible.

Well, take from this what you will.

I just returned from a Disney trip this past weekend and while there I had a conversation with someone who works the monorail.

I was told the following in a "wink, wink" tone ~

- Nooo . . . there's no expansion planned. There's no construction already started.

- There's no 2 billion dollar transportation project in the works.

- There's no reason for the 50 bay garage out in the wilderness with bay doors which open 2 stories high.

Nooo . . .


Needless to say, I'm excited!!!!!!

[GrumpyFan]

Call me a skeptic, but it sounds like somebody was yanking your chain...

Of course, it would be a very environmentally friendly and fuel saving thing for them to do. And, with the cost of fuel escalating so quickly, maybe they should look at something other than adding more busses.

[NYC WDW Fan]

He also mentioned the fueling for the monorail would be Disney generated. They are working on capping the waste dump and using the methane gas to power the monorail.

Fully green he said, at least for the monorail. I'm not really into the whole green thing, I think it's hype more than anything else, but the idea of using something you have and not wasting a resource sounds pretty smart to me.

[SgtTigger]

He also mentioned the fueling for the monorail would be Disney generated. They are working on capping the waste dump and using the methane gas to power the monorail.

Fully green he said, at least for the monorail. I'm not really into the whole green thing, I think it's hype more than anything else, but the idea of using something you have and not wasting a resource sounds pretty smart to me.

The Monorail runs on Electricity............ no gas.................
I would tend not to believe this......

[henry.james.s]

There's been talk for years about running a Monorail line from the resort to the airport.
The wife of a very good friend of mine was a high level exec @ WDW and had spoken of it more than once.

[AHOTE]

The Monorail runs on Electricity............ no gas.................
I would tend not to believe this......

The Reedy Creek Co-Generation Facility is owned and operated by the Walt Disney World Company. The power plant uses a General Electric gas turbine, a heat recovery steam generator and an Elliot steam turbine to produce electricity. The GE generator now runs on natural gas or # 2 fuel oil, and at todays' prices I can only imagine what their cost could be even at wholesale pricing. I could see them developing a methane producing source to generate power not only to run the monorail but other systems on their power grid. Johnson & Johnson Co. already uses such a system to completely power one of it's production facilities so it's a strong possibility.

[Mickey Loves Golf]

HIGHLY unlikely...being in transportation, specifically buses (and I know the CM's are always the last to find out) I seriously doubt they are expanding the monorail due to the money being spent on the busses side of the operation AND due to the cost per mile to expand the monorail.

I think our "friends in the sky" were playing around with you...

[Belle619]

Well, I think that a lot of things used to be inconceivable in the past - who ever thought we'd be paying $4.29 gal/regular gas (at least that is what I paid here in Rochester last week.)

I don't doubt that Disney may be looking into other options, as we all are, in order to cut down on long term transportation costs. Yes the start-up cost of creating new monorail lines will be steep, but in the end, that may be more cost efficient as far as number of passengers/trip than increasing the bus system.

[NYC WDW Fan]

The Reedy Creek Co-Generation Facility is owned and operated by the Walt Disney World Company. The power plant uses a General Electric gas turbine, a heat recovery steam generator and an Elliot steam turbine to produce electricity. The GE generator now runs on natural gas or # 2 fuel oil, and at todays' prices I can only imagine what their cost could be even at wholesale pricing. I could see them developing a methane producing source to generate power not only to run the monorail but other systems on their power grid. Johnson & Johnson Co. already uses such a system to completely power one of it's production facilities so it's a strong possibility.

Thanks for the detailed explanation AHOTE, I thought that was obvious, but I can see where it could be unclear.

I shudder to think of a transportation system run on methane gas. The Mexican Pavilion would then become a major supplier of fuel!!!!

[Polynesian Dweller]

Although I have no doubts that Disney will consider all options about is bus systems, I doubt this story. Too expensive compared to alternatives like LRT systems that are rail based.

I always wait for the official announcments, rumours are too easy to create.

[JPL]

There is no doubt in my mind that this option is revisted quite often by Disney but the cost always seems to shoot it down. If it was cheap enough and efficient enough it would have been done years ago. The biggest obstacle to the project is the terrain they would have to build on which really adds to the cost per mile to get it up to code.

The Wilderness Lodge is proof of the expense since the Epcot Monorail line passes relatively close to that areas and they didn't choose to build a short spur rto connect it to the line. I know some people will say it doesn't fit the theming but it doesn't fit the Poly or GF theming either. So if they didn't build a short expansion to a Deluxe resort why would they exand it further.

[brownie]

I don't know that they'd be able to justify spending $2 billion on transportation upgrades. The return on investment would be long in coming for that money I would think.

As far as bay doors that open 2 stories high, why? You don't need a door below the track to let a monorail into a building.

[Ian]

Well for $2 billion, they could buy themselves quite a monorail, that's for sure.

Actually, that number is really very close to what it would probably cost them. Best estimates are that a WDW monorail expansion would run in the neigborhood of $100 million per mile (based largely on the $88 million per mile cost of the Las Vegas monorail).

So $2 billion would buy you 20 miles of track.

[big blue and hairy]

So $2 billion would buy you 20 miles of track.

From any sane business vantage point, that would just be stupid. You'd also have to build stations, reconfigure entances to accomodate the stations.... Give it up, it's not going to happen. Do you want to pay $150/day to pay for it?

[GrumpyFan]

Actually, that number is really very close to what it would probably cost them. Best estimates are that a WDW monorail expansion would run in the neigborhood of $100 million per mile (based largely on the $88 million per mile cost of the Las Vegas monorail).

So $2 billion would buy you 20 miles of track.

Not to argue the point, but I think the $88 mil that Vegas spent also included land purchase/use rights, which Disney wouldn't have to pay.

I'm still skeptical of this being legitimate for many reasons, but mostly because this is a big purchase item that Disney would most likely have to sell to the investors before they could go forward. While I think it makes sense on many levels, ease congestion, reduce busses on road, reduce fuel and maintenance costs, connect properties, etc. I really can't see them doing it.

[GrumpyFan]

From any sane business vantage point, that would just be stupid. You'd also have to build stations, reconfigure entances to accomaodate the stations....

Sure there's a lot to be considered in the project, but I think we have to look at the rising fuel costs too, and determine what the potential savings might be.

If I had to guess, I would say just their fuel cost for the busses they run is somewhere around $100 million, then they probably spend at least that much every year on maintenance, tires, oil, etc., then there are a lot of drivers and behind the scenes maintenance workers who have to be paid.

I'm probably way off, but I would guesstimate their total operating cost for running the busses every year is somewhere around 300-400 million. So, if the monorail did cost 100 mil a mile, and they needed 20-25 miles it could take over 6 years to payoff. But, with the rising and unknown future cost of fuel, the payoff could be sooner.

One other thing to consider. There are already firm plans for 10,000 more rooms to be added to WDW property in the next 10 years. This will only add further congestion as well as pollution and fuel costs. So, while it may be an expensive investment (or expense), things will only get worse if they don't do it. Now may be the best time to do it.

[joelkfla]

The Wilderness Lodge is proof of the expense since the Epcot Monorail line passes relatively close to that areas and they didn't choose to build a short spur rto connect it to the line. I know some people will say it doesn't fit the theming but it doesn't fit the Poly or GF theming either. So if they didn't build a short expansion to a Deluxe resort why would they exand it further.

That doesn't prove that a monorail expansion is too expensive. If the idea came up, I'm sure there were a number of factors considered in deciding whether there was a good business case for putting WL on the Monorail.

And as others have pointed out, times and conditions change.

Personally, I think an expansion is unlikely at this time. I'm just saying the fact that the Monorail wasn't run to WL doesn't prove it one way or the other.

[Jasper]

I don't know anything about where this wast dump is located, what kind of waste is in it, how much methane it produces, etc. but I would say that of all the things mentioned here that is the most likely thing to happen but not to run the monorails directly but to run the engines that create electricity. I know of several companies around the country that already do things exactly like this. The technology is readily available but is normally run from either a sewage plant rather than a dump or if it is from a dump than it is from one that is high in natural material such as food scraps, plant waste, etc. Regular trash such as newspapers, paper, plastic, etc. doesn't create much methane. On the other hand pooh and other such natural material give off lots of usable methane.

As for the expansion of the monorail, I will not hold my breath waiting for it until I hear a formal announcement from Disney that they are going ahead with it. I am sure the increase in fuel costs is not helping the bottom line at the Parks division but they have so many strategies at play in that environment that I am sure they are as well protected against the shock of any sudden large increases in fuel costs they can go on for quite some time without being in real trouble from the increased cost.

Maybe I should add my 2 cents worth to this rumor by saying that I heard they were running a line to my hometown so we don't have to drive to Florida anymore. Personally I think that is as likely to happen as the rumors that they are going to expand on the grounds.

[NYC WDW Fan]

Sure there's a lot to be considered in the project, but I think we have to look at the rising fuel costs too, and determine what the potential savings might be.
If I had to guess, I would say just their fuel cost for the busses they run is somewhere around $100 million, then they probably spend at least that much every year on maintenance, tires, oil, etc., then there are a lot of drivers and behind the scenes maintenance workers who have to be paid.

I'm probably way off, but I would guesstimate their total operating cost for running the busses every year is somewhere around 300-400 million. So, if the monorail did cost 100 mil a mile, and they needed 20-25 miles it could take over 6 years to payoff. But, with the rising and unknown future cost of fuel, the payoff could be sooner.
One other thing to consider. There are already firm plans for 10,000 more rooms to be added to WDW property in the next 10 years. This will only add further congestion as well as pollution and fuel costs. So, while it may be an expensive investment (or expense), things will only get worse if they don't do it. Now may be the best time to do it.

The above was my understanding . . .

[big blue and hairy]

But, with the rising and unknown future cost of fuel, the payoff could be sooner.

You're not considering other fuel choices. You know the second altenative fuels are fiscally responsible, WDW will jump on it.

You also have to realize that the monorail just isn't as efficient as far as moving people. You can't pull out of the way if there is a problem, you can't just throw extra trains on the track when it's busier, it's just not feasible. It won't happen.