MLB Playoffs 2009

[Melanie]

Don't believe me? Check the attendance figures in Tampa or Oakland normally and when they play the Yankees.

I can vouch for that here in Tampa, BUT I think that has a lot to do with the fact this is their spring training home.

[Ian]

Yeah, that plus the fact that going to see a Yankee game is considered a must-do for some people ... it's kinda like going to Disney World. The Yankees are, love 'em or hate 'em, the quintessential American baseball franchise.

Also ... let's not overlook the fact that they've purchased 50% of the star players in the league and people like to go see stars play. It's the same reason the Penguins and Capitals draw well in other arenas. People want to see Crosby and Ovechkin.

Or maybe they just want to boo A-Roid?

[Hammer]

I can vouch for that here in Tampa, BUT I think that has a lot to do with the fact this is their spring training home.

Not to mention the Steinbrenners live in Tampa (at least the old man still does) and you find many of the wealthy Tampa residents rooting for them as he is a part of their circle.

[Melanie]

Not to mention the Steinbrenners live in Tampa (at least the old man still does) and you find many of the wealthy Tampa residents rooting for them as he is a part of their circle.

And Jeter lives here too.

[BMan62]

Just because Ian hasn't answered you, others have and you chose to ignore them.

If the Phillies somehow lost all sense and got a $200 million dollar payroll, it would sour my support for the team. I don't have to worry about them doing that, however, as the ownership has said they don't see how they can fit many more people into that ballpark and do not want to significantly raise prices (say a 20-25% increase) so much that a sizable portion of their fan base. Case in point, after winning the World Series last year, my Sunday ticket plan (14 games) were the exact same price as last year.

Glad they held the line this past year on the Sunday Plan. I had the Sunday Plan until '94 when they hit us with a 20% increase just for making the series in '93. As much as I enjoyed seeing 2 playoff games and one WS game, I couldn't justify the increase on a team that was sure to be dismantled - through retirement as much as trade.

Now I'm lucky if I make the two hour drive each way to one game a year -- in fact, didn't make one this year at all!

[Pagan]

Since the Yankees have sucked up all the decent talent the small market teams can't draw, meaning they can't spend money to compete with the Yankees, meaning they're pretty much doomed to stink year in and year out. There are exceptions, of course, (the Rays from last year), but they're very rare.

Okay...so let me sort this out. A few weeks ago you were trashing the Yankees, saying that they haven't won a WS since 2000.

Now you're saying they sucked up all the talent so other teams can't draw and can't compete and can't win?

Apparently, other teams have had talent, and haven't exactly been "stinking", else they would not be winning the Series. The Yankees would be every year, no?

Very rare? Since the Yankees have been accused of "buying" championship teams (which started around the mid 70's) they've appeared in 10 WS - and won 6 of them - in 34 years.

Wow...SOMEHOW, the other teams in the league have managed to get in and win 28 WS titles since 1976 to the Yankees 6!

Now how on earth did they manage that "rare" feat???

Your argument holds no water whatsoever Ian.

[Hammer]

And Jeter lives here too.

Yeah, I forgot to mention that. Posada lives there as well (close to one of my cousins). His home was pointed out to me when I was at a rehersal dinner at the country club that is within the gated community where they live.

Actually, Jeter is building a huge mansion out in the Davis Islands section of Tampa. He basically greased the wheels of city council to buy the 3 lots, which is not making him a fan with his future neighbors.

Glad they held the line this past year on the Sunday Plan. I had the Sunday Plan until '94 when they hit us with a 20% increase just for making the series in '93. As much as I enjoyed seeing 2 playoff games and one WS game, I couldn't justify the increase on a team that was sure to be dismantled - through retirement as much as trade.

Now I'm lucky if I make the two hour drive each way to one game a year -- in fact, didn't make one this year at all!

I think they learned from that. The price of tickets in some areas of the ballpark went up, but only slightly ($1-$2 a game). Where they added to the price of going to a game is parking, where the price went from $10 to $12. This is a lot less than what most other baseball teams charge for parking. When I went to a Rays vs. Blue Jays game at the Trop this year, they charge $15 for parking (and food and alcohol are more there as well).

[Ian]

Okay...so let me sort this out. A few weeks ago you were trashing the Yankees, saying that they haven't won a WS since 2000.

Now you're saying they sucked up all the talent so other teams can't draw and can't compete and can't win?

Apparently, other teams have had talent, and haven't exactly been "stinking", else they would not be winning the Series. The Yankees would be every year, no?

Very rare? Since the Yankees have been accused of "buying" championship teams (which started around the mid 70's) they've appeared in 10 WS - and won 6 of them - in 34 years.

Wow...SOMEHOW, the other teams in the league have managed to get in and win 28 WS titles since 1976 to the Yankees 6!

Now how on earth did they manage that "rare" feat???

Your argument holds no water whatsoever Ian.

I think you took what I said out of context ... I was referring to this year when they Yankees bought up all the free agent talent.

I'm actually kinda struggling to even understand why you're arguing. It's not like my opinion is a far out one. Virtually everyone, everywhere knows that the Yankess buy up the talent and hurt the small market teams.

And how many WS the Yankees have one isn't necessarily relevant. What's more relevant is whether or not you can buy championships in MLB. I'd have to look and see which teams have won with what kind of payrolls. For example, the Sox won two and they are always among the league leaders in payroll.

[Melanie]

Actually, Jeter is building a huge mansion out in the Davis Islands section of Tampa. He basically greased the wheels of city council to buy the 3 lots, which is not making him a fan with his future neighbors.

And it's my understanding it's not in a gated community, so I'm sure the traffic has his neighbors thrilled as well. Not sure what he was thinking there.

[Pagan]

I think you took what I said out of context ... I was referring to this year when they Yankees bought up all the free agent talent.

No...you brought up Damon and ARod too. Neither of them were brought in this year.

I'm actually kinda struggling to even understand why you're arguing. It's not like my opinion is a far out one. Virtually everyone, everywhere knows that the Yankess buy up the talent and hurt the small market teams.

I'm not arguing, I'm debating. If all these small market teams were hurt so bad, they wouldn't be winning. Why don't we find out the payroll of all the teams who've won the Series in the last 30 years? I can assure you that not all of them have huge payrolls, making this entire discussion moot.

And how many WS the Yankees have one isn't necessarily relevant. What's more relevant is whether or not you can buy championships in MLB.

How is it irrelevant? If the statement is that they're buying championships, how can it be irrelevant if they don't win them?

The point is, they Yankees are the fashionable team to hate. It's almost like hating big business because they can do things little businesses can't. That's not the fault of big business. They were small business once also.

Just because you "buy" players doesn't mean you win. Ask the Washington Redskins.

[GreenBeetle]

WE BELEEVE TONIGHT!!

GO PHILS!!

[Pagan]

Hmmm...interesting. Rollins predicts the Phillies will beat the Yankees in five games huh?

Oh, and he says that if the Phillies are "nice" they'll "let" the series go to 6 games?

LOL

[JerseyMouse]

Thankfully, it's finally upon us!! Looking forward to some great baseball.

[barnaby]

Virtually everyone, everywhere knows that the Yankess buy up the talent and hurt the small market teams.

I get a kick out of Philadelphia sports fans when they complain about other teams spending money.

It is a bit hypocritical because both cities are large sports markets. If you rip the Yankees for spending $$, you don't quite realize that Philly teams do the same thing on a smaller level. You think that a team like the Marlins could've locked up an arb eligible Ryan Howard like the Phillies did?

All the Philly sports team are in the top half in team salaries - Flyers, Sixers, Eagles (even though the salary cap legend Joe Banner has been cheap recently) and the Phillies too.

In principle, the Phillies aren't any different than the Yankees. They both have the money to sign FAs and re-sign drafted talent. They both spend the cash to win.
I don't see any probelm with that.

Take for instance this offseason, Hamels and Howard were both arb eligible for the next few years. Yes, the Phillies basically have them under contract when they are arb eligible, but there is still a possibilty they could've moved on.
So the Phillies brass opens their wallet and signs both of the to big $ deals. Like I said previously, could a team like the Marlins have done that? Nope, so that means the Phillies hurt small market teams too.
And the Phillies may hurt small market teams more because the Yankees pay a luxury tax which goes back into the MLB and small market teams.

Face it, the Phillies aren't like the cash-strapped Brewers. They have always had money, even when cheapo owners didn't spend it or misspent it on big contracts for guys like Danny Tartabull or Mike Lieberhtal.

It is almost like the Phillies fans already have a built-in excuse if they don't win the WS - the Yankees spend more than us.

PS - I think the Phillies in 5.

[PirateLover]

This salary argument is getting tired.
Sportsguy let me be the first to welcome you aboard the "Chooch Train." The last time I saw Gary Papa was actually at Harry Kalas' funeral. Scott Palmer from the Phils organization was pushing him in a wheelchair and I almost didn't recognize him, he was so bad at that point. He was such a good guy. And of course, Harry... I cannot tell you how many times this season I've created a Harry Kalas call in my head. I know he would be beside himself with joy to see a Phillies team in back to back World Series.

Pagan, Jimmy is famous for his predictions. He declared the Phillies the "Team to beat" in the division in 2007 and we won. This year he predicted a Phillies-Yankees World Series and we're in it. Not saying he's a Nostradamus but of course he's going to say he thinks they'll clinch it at home and in order to do that it can only go five games. I would expect a Yankee Player to say something along the same lines.

I think these teams are evenly matched. Defensively, I would give a slight edge to the Yankee infield. I think our outfield is better, and I think there are pluses and minuses in both of our pitching staffs, but I think you've got to feel more confident with Rivera as your closer as opposed to the shaky Motel Lidge. For the bats, again I think we're pretty even down the lineup, both teams have guys that are known for slamming the ball out of the park.

I really think tonight should be a good indicator. If the Phillies lose, I will still have faith in them because if there's one thing I've learned, it's not to give up on this team. However we definitely need to take one of the first two to give ourselves a real shot.

[Ian]

Another area I think favors the Phillies is the DH vs. non-DH.

In Yankee stadium, the Phillies will get additional pop in their lineup by being able to use a DH. That's not something they're used to, so when you look at the hitting stats for both teams in the playoffs remember that the Yankees have had the benefit of a DH the whole time and the Phillies haven't.

When they're in CBP the Yankees won't have that advantage, so if you think about it the Phillies' hitting numbers should go up for this series while the Yankees will almost definitely come down.

[Hammer]

I get a kick out of Philadelphia sports fans when they complain about other teams spending money.

It is a bit hypocritical because both cities are large sports markets. If you rip the Yankees for spending $$, you don't quite realize that Philly teams do the same thing on a smaller level. .

The Phillies (and actually all other large market teams besides the Yankees, such as Atlanta, LA, san Fran) do it on much smaller level than the Yankees. There is a big jump down from in terms of salary after the Yankees.

Take for instance this offseason, Hamels and Howard were both arb eligible for the next few years. Yes, the Phillies basically have them under contract when they are arb eligible, but there is still a possibilty they could've moved on.
So the Phillies brass opens their wallet and signs both of the to big $ deals. Like I said previously, could a team like the Marlins have done that? Nope, so that means the Phillies hurt small market teams too.
And the Phillies may hurt small market teams more because the Yankees pay a luxury tax which goes back into the MLB and small market teams.

Yes, they signed them to contracts which eats up their arbitration years, which actually could come out cheaper for the Phillies. I can almost guarantee that Howard and Hamels would have gotten higher salaries in the arbitration process.

Face it, the Phillies aren't like the cash-strapped Brewers. They have always had money, even when cheapo owners didn't spend it or misspent it on big contracts for guys like Danny Tartabull or Mike Lieberhtal.

Hey, no picking on Leiby ! It is always a risk to give any catcher a big contract. They are one collision away from being done.

[Ian]

I get a kick out of Philadelphia sports fans when they complain about other teams spending money.

It is a bit hypocritical because both cities are large sports markets. If you rip the Yankees for spending $$, you don't quite realize that Philly teams do the same thing on a smaller level.

Sorry, but that makes no sense. You can't spend "big money" on a "smaller level."

Big is big and small is small. Here look at it this way:

1. New York Yankees $201,449,289
2. New York Mets $135,773,988
3. Chicago Cubs $135,050,000
4. Boston Red Sox $122,696,000
5. Detroit Tigers $115,085,145
6. Los Angeles Angels $113,709,000
7. Philadelphia Phillies $113,004,048
8. Houston Astros $102,996,415
9. Los Angeles Dodgers $100,458
10. Seattle Mariners $98,904,167
11. Atlanta Braves $96,726,167
12. Chicago White Sox $96,068,500
13. St. Louis Cardinals $88,528,411
14. San Francisco Giants $82,161,450
15. Cleveland Indians $81,625,567
16. Toronto Blue Jays $80,993,657
17. Milwaukee Brewers $79,857,502
18. Colorado Rockies $75,201,000
19. Arizona Diamondbacks $73,571,667
20. Cincinnati Reds $70,968,500
21. Kansas City Royals $70,908,333
22. Texas Rangers $68,646,023
23. Baltimore Orioles $67,101,667
24. Minnesota Twins $65,299,267
25. Tampa Bay Rays $63,313,035
26. Oakland Athletics $62,310,000
27. Nationals $59,328,000
28. Pirates $48,743,000
29. San Diego Padres $42,796,700
30. Florida Marlins $36,814,000

The average player salaries for teams not named "The Yankees" is $84,435,835. The Phillies are obviously above that with $113,004,048 (although I'd point out that the bulk of that money is tied up in homegrown players like Howard, Utley, Hamels, etc. and not high priced free agents). So the Phillies spend just about 33% more on player salaries than the MLB average.

The Yankees, on the other hand, spend a whopping 139% more! That's not some minor difference we're talking about here ... they Yankees spend close to double what the Phillies spend!

Anyway, though, I agree with Mary Anne. This entire argument is silly. Anyone can refute/debate/argue all they want but the hard facts show that the Yankees spend a ridiculous amount of money on their players as compared to everyone else.

Is that a built-in reason to lose? Absolutely not.

[Greenlawler]

Hmmm, let me ask you this hypothetical question. Should the Cowboys suddenly assemble a team of likeable players (I know, not likely anytime soon) would you suddenly become a fan?

For me personally, it's all about franchises. I can't stand either one of these, but the Yankees get the slight edge for me here as well, mainly because for some unexplicable reason my son is a fan and he's so excited. Usually I go for the NL team, but not in this case.

Sorry I got in on this way late, but I tend to dislike teams more on past experiance. My theory is fans hate the teams that hurt them the most. For example as a Brewers fan I still dislike the Cards because of 1982. As a Titans fan I get sick at the mere mention of the Ravens.

However my dislike for the Yakees goes way beyond those factors. I really just get tired of small market teams having to play the role of farm club to the Yanks. The union puts so much pressure on these free agents to accept the Yankees ridiculous offers, which in turn raises the expected salaries and puts the small market teams further and further behind.

[Ian]

Heh.

I ask again ... WHICH pitcher would you rather have??

CC Sabathia:

Innings Pitched: 7
Hits: 4
Earned Runs: 2
Home Runs Allowed: 2
Walks: 3
Strikeouts: 6

Cliff Lee:

Innings Pitched: 9
Hits: 6
Earned Runs: 0
Home Runs Allowed: 0
Walks: 0
Strikeouts: 10

Total domination. 6-1 Phils win and the vaunted Yankees were one lucky run (on a Rollins error) away from being shut out at home.

Phils already did what they needed to do ... they've stolen homefield advantage. Now no matter what happens tomorrow night it just doesn't matter.

Although for the record I think Pedro will pitch a gem tomorrow night and the Phils will go back to CBP up 2-0 in the series.