Rides run faster during busy seasons???

[Main Street Jim]

I think it's safe to say that if they can slow the ride down they can speed it up.

Well, the attraction speed *can* be slowed down to permit disabled guests to board/disembark, but it can't get "any faster" than its "max speed" (which is usually what they run at, even at slow times). Now, there may be fewer or more ride vehicles on the "track" due to number of guests in the park(s). The more vehicles, the quicker the load time, and the less the dispatch time. Good example, as was stated by Rosanne, is Space Mountain. As she said, when there's fewer guests in the park, there's not a need for as many ride vehicles. So the dispatch time for the rockets is longer. Once the flow picks up and the line gets longer, rockets are added, and the dispatch time turned down (variable from 29 seconds down to 13.5 seconds - former SM CM here, too ).

On the OmniMover type rides - Buzz, HM, etc. - the ride moves at a constant rate, except to load/unload wheelchair/disabled guests, when the CMs can slow it down or stop the attraction (I'm a former Buzz CM as well). Same with Spaceship Earth. The fastest those rides will go, *is* the "fastest" you will ever see those rides. TTA will not go "any faster", nor will it slow down - only when it gets back to the unload platform.

As a former Splash CM, the boats do not go "any faster", either. It may *seem* faster when there's not as many boats in the flume (no boats to stop in front of you to "slow you down"), but trust me - it all moves the same speed all the time. When there's not a full flume of logs (52 logs, I believe), the dispatch time is greater between logs, so logs have more time to float freely in the water. Same with small world and PotC.

[Mousemates]

thanks for the good info Main Street Jim

[Hazmat]

I agree with dumbo etc having sorter run times, (number of rotations) that makes sense. The only other ride I could see bieng possible to be run slightly faster is the great movie ride as the cast memeber has control of the speed of the ride vehicle. But even if they ran it at full speed all the way round it would make for a very poor ride experience. They do have red and green lights to follow to make sure the next show scene is clear before progressing. And the cars would have to stop at the pre determined points. I.E the ganster/cowboy scene and the witch.

[wdwfansince75]

Boy, is it great to have Main Street Jim back! His knowledge always added to these threads. Before he added his knowledge to this thread, I found myself imagining every single attraction with a variable speed; I couldn't think of a single one that I had experienced at different speeds.

[crltkcagle]

I think the y do! For example on our last trip we rode and recorded the Snow White ride during normal hours. Later that same evening during EMH when the park was pretty much empty we rode and recorded it again. We noticed while we were riding it that it was going much slower than it did when we rode it hours earlier. When we got home and watched the videos you can tell it was moving much faster on our first ride than it was during our last ride.

[BrerGnat]

In addition, it's also worth noting that on the boat and flume rides, the number of riders (i.e. combined rider weight) affects the speed of the boat through the flume. The boats move slower when they're fully packed and faster when they aren't. So, you may notice some variability there as well. The actual speed of the water is not different, but the boats weight affects speed.

[joonyer]

The length (time) of a theme park attraction ride is inversely proportional to the amount of time you spend waiting in the queue! So it makes sense that during crowded times, the rides get shorter.!

[Giselle]

From personal experience, I'd say the speed of the rides do change depending on the crowd. I've been on PP and WP a few times and they were so fast you couldn't see anything. Some other times I've had a nice leisurely ride. It was so different, I can't believe it was my imagination.

[Main Street Jim]

I'll say it again - The ride speed *can't* go any faster than what they already run at Yes, they *can* be slowed down, but can NOT be "sped up". There may be fewer ride vehicles on track, which keeps the "on-track" vehicles from packing into one another (Splash, PotC, small world, Pooh, Snow White, etc.), so it may *seem* "faster".

[wdwfansince75]

In addition, it's also worth noting that on the boat and flume rides, the number of riders (i.e. combined rider weight) affects the speed of the boat through the flume. The boats move slower when they're fully packed and faster when they aren't. So, you may notice some variability there as well. The actual speed of the water is not different, but the boats weight affects speed.

OK, so my fluid dynamics and other Oceanography studies were decades ago....but so long as they are bouyant, the currents push them along at the same rate. It is true that additional load weight will increase displacement (the weight of the volume of water displaced), and therefore increase drag by increasing the wetted surface area...but that has no inpact on bouyant vessels being pushed along by the currents. If they are being pulled along by a chain drive, or other mechanism, the displacement has no effect on forward motion, and constant speed drives are just that...constant speed. So, no, as I understand fluid flow, the displacement of the boat does not effect speed. As for the flumes, the force of gravity is such that all objects fall at the same acceleration....16 ft per second per second...weight has nothing to do with the rate of fall.

[K8screen]

I am sure Main Street Jim is right, but if, as he says, rides can only run slower, not faster, perhaps the "normal" speed is the fast one and they run it slower, as Jim tells us they can, at quiet times.
Also, there is no real advantage to Disney in increasing the speed of the rides. It will shorten lines, but its not like a carnival where you pay for each ride as you ride it. Once we have paid to get in the park the more we ride the less profit Disney makes. If we arent riding we could be shopping or dining! I am just glad they put on extra cars, boats etc when possible.

[BrerGnat]

OK, so my fluid dynamics and other Oceanography studies were decades ago....but so long as they are bouyant, the currents push them along at the same rate. It is true that additional load weight will increase displacement (the weight of the volume of water displaced), and therefore increase drag by increasing the wetted surface area...but that has no inpact on bouyant vessels being pushed along by the currents. If they are being pulled along by a chain drive, or other mechanism, the displacement has no effect on forward motion, and constant speed drives are just that...constant speed. So, no, as I understand fluid flow, the displacement of the boat does not effect speed. As for the flumes, the force of gravity is such that all objects fall at the same acceleration....16 ft per second per second...weight has nothing to do with the rate of fall.

When a boat is in a narrow channel, with turns and such, and the boat is heavier, it knocks into the sides with more force, slows down, and takes longer to navigate the channel. This is very obvious when you are simply just watching the Disney boat rides. Empty boats carreen along the flume effortlessly. If they knock the side, they bounce around quickly and keep going. If a boat if fully loaded, it gets slowed down. This ended up being such a problem that Disneyland was forced to completely rip out and replace the flume at its Small World attraction, which was not deep enough to accommodate the "heaviness" of the boats, due largely in part to American's increased overall sizes since 1955. The boats would "bottom out" often, coming to a very slow grind around the flume, and often getting stuck around corners because they couldn't remain buoyant enough in the shallow channel.

Your assesment of fluid dynamics doesn't take into account obstacles along the navigation route. In open water, you are 100% correct. The Disney boat rides don't operate in open water. And, the ones that do follow a track.

[Main Street Jim]

My kids are a bit OCD about which rides they will go on, to the point where our park time went like this every time (these would always be the first five rides, in that order):
-Teacups
-Carousel
-Circus Train
-Dumbo
-Small World

OK, this one has me curious, since WDW's Magic Kingdom doesn't have a "Circus Train". Disneyland, however, does have Casey Junior. Is that what you were referring to? I'm just wondering...

[Melanie]

OK, this one has me curious, since WDW's Magic Kingdom doesn't have a "Circus Train". Disneyland, however, does have Casey Junior. Is that what you were referring to? I'm just wondering...

Yes, Natalie was local to Disneyland for many years until just recently. Peek at her signature and you can see she's a moderator in our Disneyland forums.

[Ian]

I'll say it again - The ride speed *can't* go any faster than what they already run at Yes, they *can* be slowed down, but can NOT be "sped up". There may be fewer ride vehicles on track, which keeps the "on-track" vehicles from packing into one another (Splash, PotC, small world, Pooh, Snow White, etc.), so it may *seem* "faster".

I'm sorry, but this makes absolutely no sense. If you can slow something down it's a stone cold fact that you can also speed it up. If there's a "slower" there has to also be a "faster."

I'm not arguing, Jim, because honestly I don't know for certain, but I do know that you worked on Splash which isn't an Omnimover ride. And based on Natalie's objective analysis and my subjective observations of 100+ rides on attractions like Haunted Mansion and Peter Pan, I'm fairly certain that the Omnimover-type rides do move faster/slower depending on crowds.

And to the previous poster who said there's no upside for Disney in moving people through rides more quickly, yes there is. Long wait times are the bane of Disney's existance. They're responsible for more complaints than any other cause. They invented Fastpass to do away with it. If they can move more people through an attraction in a given time period it results in shorter lines and an uptick in guest satisfaction.

[BrerGnat]

OK, this one has me curious, since WDW's Magic Kingdom doesn't have a "Circus Train". Disneyland, however, does have Casey Junior. Is that what you were referring to? I'm just wondering...

Yeah, Jim. I was referring to DL. I guess my point was, they definitely do it there. If they can do it there, they can do it at WDW.

And, specifically referring to the Circus train, they have altered the speed of this train over the past 10 years. For awhile, it was going very fast, almost mini roller coaster speed and it was quite thrilling for the little ones. Recently, they have decreased the operating speed considerably, and have added a full safety stop a bit before the final tunnel. I was told it was due to needing to comply with safety regulations with regards to color blindness! There is a red/green light that is supposed to signal the train to stop or go just before entering the final tunnel (if there is a train in the station, the light is red, otherwise it's green). Apparently, they hired a color blind castmember, and he could not distinguish between the lights, so now it's required that all operators come to a full stop for 30 seconds and visually look for a train at the station before proceeding.

I understand your point about not being able to go faster than "maximum speed", but I know for a fact that they are NOT always operating all rides at "maximum speed".

[Ian]

I was told it was due to needing to comply with safety regulations with regards to color blindness! There is a red/green light that is supposed to signal the train to stop or go just before entering the final tunnel (if there is a train in the station, the light is red, otherwise it's green). Apparently, they hired a color blind castmember, and he could not distinguish between the lights ...

This sounds sort of "urban legend-ish" to me. I mean, presumably the red light and the green light aren't the same bulb, right? So couldn't they just say, "Green is on the left and red is on the right. Act accordingly." to the guy?

[BrerGnat]

This sounds sort of "urban legend-ish" to me. I mean, presumably the red light and the green light aren't the same bulb, right? So couldn't they just say, "Green is on the left and red is on the right. Act accordingly." to the guy?

No, the lights are stacked one on top of the other, and are very close together. If you have red/green colorblindness, you'd just see a light on, but you wouldn't be able to tell from a distance which one it was. Truly, it's just a badly designed light. It's up against a dark border (the rock tunnel) and down around 5 feet in height. They could have presumably just put in a new light, and maybe they are, but for the time being, they do a full stop for every ride.

[wdwfansince75]

When a boat is in a narrow channel, with turns and such, and the boat is heavier, it knocks into the sides with more force, slows down, and takes longer to navigate the channel. This is very obvious when you are simply just watching the Disney boat rides. Empty boats carreen along the flume effortlessly. If they knock the side, they bounce around quickly and keep going. If a boat if fully loaded, it gets slowed down. This ended up being such a problem that Disneyland was forced to completely rip out and replace the flume at its Small World attraction, which was not deep enough to accommodate the "heaviness" of the boats, due largely in part to American's increased overall sizes since 1955. The boats would "bottom out" often, coming to a very slow grind around the flume, and often getting stuck around corners because they couldn't remain buoyant enough in the shallow channel.

Your assesment of fluid dynamics doesn't take into account obstacles along the navigation route. In open water, you are 100% correct. The Disney boat rides don't operate in open water. And, the ones that do follow a track.

Don't want to get too far off track...yes, you are right...I did not include the effects of channel flown nor did I consider the random effects of side or bottom bumping.....the initial issue was "control" of speed...even if speed were a factor of displacement, it would not be a "controlled" factor, which was the original issue....However, to our point..If I put heavier people in a boat, I would, in fact, make the boat settle further into the water...for example, if the waterline measurement of a retangular SW boat is approximately 8 ft by 16 ft, (actually, I think it is larger) it has a water surface area of 128ft...if I add 600 extra pounds to load, it sinks less than 1 inch. (Displacing one cubic ft of water requires adding 62.4 lbs).
I'm certain that the older rides, such as SM at DL were designed for an earlier time, and the probaple assumption that more of the riders would be children...but having bottom bumping evidences a poor design, rather than simply the harsh reality of a heavier population...surely the clearance should have been sufficient to allow additional weight without bumping being a problem. I suspect that the original designers did consider a weight range, but apparently did not provide additional clearance...
I see your point about the heavier boats striking the sides, particularly in turns, whereas more bouyant boats with less weight, would "float free" of the obstacle more quickly....but we are talking inches of freeboard, nothing like the problem, for instance, faced by larger vessels...and the more bouyant boats would be more prone to bobbing and changing heading to strike the sides...as shown by your example of the empty boats on POTC....the objects with less freeboard, (greater displacement), are more likely to stay with the channel flow...so, again, there would be changes of speed, as the boats strike the sides...but the lighter boats would stike more often, and the heavier boats would slow more on each strike...probably close to a wash...and to lower a log by an inch would require at least 200 lbs extra weight...appears to be random enough as to not effect the total ride time...since there is a randomness involved, it would have to be sampled to determine the actual results. And since we are talking "control", it could not be perdicted, log by log.

Parts of certain rides, including Splash, are controlled, at least the belt portions....but since that is only a small portion to the ride, it can be used to control the ride time only by slowing it down...if you make the belts lifting the boats faster, you will close the intervals of the boats past the lift...and have the boats jammed near the end of the ride...so while the CM's can slow the ride, to allow extra loading and unloading, except for a few logs/boats near the unloading point (or on the controlled portions of the ride) the total ride time for most guests (and queue wait times) would not be affected.