WashPost - Disney parks unreachable for middle class

[WiltonJohn]

Since we are talking about the "prime" single day ticket price as a way of comparison (that many do not pay)....... and keeping the comparison also of a sort of a "world class venue leader" in both cases........

From GearJunkie (Sean McCoy):

"Nobody ever accused Vail of being a cheap mountain. But the latest price bump — $160 for a single-day adult holiday ticket — is getting powder lovers to sit up and take notice.

........................

Breckenridge, also owned by Vail Resorts, raised ticket prices from $140 to $145. Deer Valley, Utah, went from $114 to $120. Park City, Utah, raised prices to $115, and Whistler/Blackcomb, in British Columbia, upped its rate to $119 (Canadian).

According to the Aspen Daily News, single-day tickets at resorts owned by SkiCo (which manages Aspen Mountain, Aspen Highlands, Snowmass and Buttermilk) have gone up 65% since 2005."

excerpted under "Fair Use".


Going skiing at a world class resort for a week or going to the world class resort of Disneyworld is going to cost someone some serious bucks. Lodging and food are also generally at least as expensive as Disney World. Both are sort of difficult for the "middle class" (whatever the heck that actually is) to afford.

Skiing prices have not gone up as much in the last 10 years as Disney's prices (they were higher in the past....Disney is 'catching up')...... but they are currently MORE expensive per day.

best,

...................john

PS: And goofy_for_pluto, as a former pro skier....... I haven't paid much for skiing in 40+ years .

[TheVBs]

We go to other destinations every other year, in between Disney trips. National parks, out west, the east coast, other Florida trips. We end up paying quite a bit for those trips too. Sometimes they're a little less, sometimes comparable, and sometimes they cost us more than if we'd gone to Disney. So, yes, I would say that a Disney trip is very comparable to other destinations (unless you're plus-ing it in some way). Most of our other vacations are great. But sometimes, we don't even come close to getting the value we feel we get at WDW. We have never priced out an all inclusive resort that was less than Disney either.

[BrerGnat]

We go to other destinations every other year, in between Disney trips. National parks, out west, the east coast, other Florida trips. We end up paying quite a bit for those trips too. Sometimes they're a little less, sometimes comparable, and sometimes they cost us more than if we'd gone to Disney. So, yes, I would say that a Disney trip is very comparable to other destinations (unless you're plus-ing it in some way). Most of our other vacations are great. But sometimes, we don't even come close to getting the value we feel we get at WDW. We have never priced out an all inclusive resort that was less than Disney either.

Every time I think about how we went to Hershey Park over Memorial Day weekend a couple years ago, and paid $300/night for a Holiday Inn Express...I kind of want to a little bit. A 2 night weekend for our family of 4 ended up costing us $1000 all said and done.

It was not even close to being "worth it."

[Cinderelley]

Right here is the crux of the matter in the whole article (and in the situation as it sits):

"But some see Disney’s magically ascending price tag as a reflection of the country’s economy, where stagnant wages and growing inequality have transformed even the way Americans take time off.

When Walt created Disneyland, this was a middle-class country. But Disney now . . . as far as pricing out the middle class, they think: What middle class?” said Robert Niles, the editor of Theme Park Insider, an industry blog. "

-excerpted under "Fair Use".

Not much different from stuff like skiing and snowboarding, golf, scuba diving, sailing, and other such recreational pursuits.

Anyone been to a MOVIE lately? Did you get a good mortgage rate?

best,

..................john

Why yes, I have a fantastic mortgage rate. I just saw Avengers where the tickets were $7 per person (not too far off from the $5 per person when my kids were little.) I don't ski or snowboard, but when I arrived for this contract, Sipapu was advertising days where a whole carload of people could get in for a single reduced price. I would say it is very different from other things.

[Cinderelley]

The comparisons often made in these threads are typically not things I would've been doing or considered to be competing with WDW for my vacation dollars. Sometimes I think it is like saying Tesla's cars are cheap because look how expensive a Bentley is!

This is my thought also. I wouldn't consider an all inclusive island resort a "middle class" vacation. The doctors I work with do that, not the nurses.
I was looking at cruises. I love Royal Caribbean, but I thought I would check out DCL also. The cost for the Disney cruise was 4 times the cost of the equivalent Royal Caribbean cruise. Obviously people pay it. I think the brand will support the price increase, but I don't think people should just blow off the point of the article. Yes, if you buy a 10 day ticket, the price of the ticket becomes comparable with other things, but how many people can afford a 10 day vacation? Not everyone has paid time off. 10 days of lost wages. 10 days of hotel costs. 10 days of eating out. 10 days of a lot of little things that you pay for. It all adds up.

[NJGIRL]

Every time I think about how we went to Hershey Park over Memorial Day weekend a couple years ago, and paid $300/night for a Holiday Inn Express...I kind of want to a little bit. A 2 night weekend for our family of 4 ended up costing us $1000 all said and done.

It was not even close to being "worth it."

Wow that was a lot...We stayed at the Hershey Hotel last 4th of July and only paid $150 per night.

[Terra]

This is my thought also. I wouldn't consider an all inclusive island resort a "middle class" vacation. The doctors I work with do that, not the nurses.
I was looking at cruises. I love Royal Caribbean, but I thought I would check out DCL also. The cost for the Disney cruise was 4 times the cost of the equivalent Royal Caribbean cruise. Obviously people pay it. I think the brand will support the price increase, but I don't think people should just blow off the point of the article. Yes, if you buy a 10 day ticket, the price of the ticket becomes comparable with other things, but how many people can afford a 10 day vacation? Not everyone has paid time off. 10 days of lost wages. 10 days of hotel costs. 10 days of eating out. 10 days of a lot of little things that you pay for. It all adds up.

This is all true. I find myself agree with many of you about Disney being more affordable/comparable. I hadn't thought of it in that way until reading more posts.
When I sit and think about a few of our own trips [even up north to see family], we spend a good amount.

We just did a 3 day/2 night mini get away to St. Augustine and yikes, everything can nickel and dime you. We even "go cheap" [budget hotels, bring a lot of our own food for lunch. Find hotels that have breakfast included, things like that.] And it can add up. We eat out one meal each day, doing the sight seeing stuff, a couple of small souvenirs, and it still adds up.

And really with Disney's value resorts and their food. It's not far off at all compared to other tourist spots. Honestly I don't think the price for Disney QS food is that bad. Often we even order kids meals because they are enough food. And even adult meals at 10-12 isn't bad. Shoot fast food meals anymore are $7-8 each.

[IloveJack]

I agree with that statement, Terra. We live in middle TN, and most of our friends are shocked at how often we go to WDW, based on cost. However, they take annual trips to Gatlinburg (or even more often than that), where everything is priced individually. If you play putt-putt, race go karts, and see a show in a day, you've equalled the cost of a one-day ticket to a WDW park. And there are no discounts there for multiple days.
We are also going to St Augustine this summer, and are opting to not do all the sightseeing. Just the pirate ship alone is $35/adult and that's for only 2.5 hours. At least for my $100 at WDW, I get 12+ hours.

[Terra]

I agree with that statement, Terra. We live in middle TN, and most of our friends are shocked at how often we go to WDW, based on cost. However, they take annual trips to Gatlinburg (or even more often than that), where everything is priced individually. If you play putt-putt, race go karts, and see a show in a day, you've equalled the cost of a one-day ticket to a WDW park. And there are no discounts there for multiple days.
We are also going to St Augustine this summer, and are opting to not do all the sightseeing. Just the pirate ship alone is $35/adult and that's for only 2.5 hours. At least for my $100 at WDW, I get 12+ hours.

YES!!
We looked at the tour as well, but decided against it because of price.
Even the little one or two room museums range in price from $5 per adult, $4 per children to $8/7 for the same.

Don't get me wrong, I love all that. Wish we could do it all, but we have to be choosey.
I have to say even when I do a mini vacation to Disney, I've spent about the same, and get a really cool hotel that my kids love!

Hope you have a great time at St. Augustine this summer LOVE that place.
We are FL residents. We should be used to the heat but no way. LOL
Do some of the outside stuff in the morning [like the Fort]. It's crazy hot!

[Wells]

Bottom line....Disney vacations are expensive! More than most, less than some, but for me, unless the Obama administration enacts the "Affordable Vacation Act" (Obamacation) I'll just have to limit my Disney trips to what my budget will support......

[Cinderelley]

Bottom line....Disney vacations are expensive! More than most, less than some, but for me, unless the Obama administration enacts the "Affordable Vacation Act" (Obamacation) I'll just have to limit my Disney trips to what my budget will support......

Lol

[baldburke]

This is my thought also. I wouldn't consider an all inclusive island resort a "middle class" vacation. The doctors I work with do that, not the nurses.

You hit the nail on the head. We as Americans consider ourselves entitled. Everyone thinks they deserve new cars, the latest electronics and designer clothes.

I'll preface my next line to say no offense to cashiers, but my guess is that in 1975 the average cashier at Sears couldn't afford a Disney vacation just as the average Walmart cashier in 2015 can't.

Would we all like more stuff? Yes! Do we have to work to get it? Yes! What's next? Private airplanes for everyone to and from Disney?

[j2k]

I agree with what many of you have said.

Life is all about choices. You choose your priorities. What is important to each person/family, regardless of income level, is what they spend their money on.

Vacations are expensive! Disney or otherwise. But if vacationing often is a priority for you/your family then you will save your money to spend your money on that.

We do not vacation every year. That is our choice. Our last Disney trip was in 2012 and our next Disney trip will be in 2017. The years in between there is either no vacation or only a small mini vacation. That is our choice. We have other goals and priorities for our money.

And as far as looking middle class, etc. I don't know what anyone would think of me but I dress as comfortable as possible. Not skimpy, but comfortable. So judge my looks as you will but I dress for Disney comfort

[Terra]

Another thing dawned on me and made me realize that Disney is indeed on par/fairly affordable.
I live about 25 minutes from Legoland.
While their APs are inexpensive for FL residents, there hotel is expensive! Over $300 a night for 4 people. More if you are 5+. And these are prices in the OFF season.
Disney's VRs are often half of that per night, or less! Right now during early September I can 3 nights for at Disney for the price of one at Legoland.

Many FL residents, and even vacationers are blown away by the Legoland hotel price. You can get a mod to a deluxe [sometimes] at Disney for the same price per night.

And I agree about saving. We want to do another mini vacation, this time to Fort Myers to show the boys the Ford Edison Estate. We went on our honeymoon and loved it. Can you tell we love historical stuff
Anyway, we are setting aside money for a small suite, food for a meal out each night, and some sightseeing stuff. We forgo lots of other things to make it happen. Eating out, daily runs to Starbucks, etc.

[TheVBs]

Every time I think about how we went to Hershey Park over Memorial Day weekend a couple years ago, and paid $300/night for a Holiday Inn Express...I kind of want to a little bit. A 2 night weekend for our family of 4 ended up costing us $1000 all said and done.

It was not even close to being "worth it."

OMG! This is exactly how we feel about the few days we spent in the Wisconsin Dells one year. So much money, so little time, and so much less for our $.

[Terra]

OMG! This is exactly how we feel about the few days we spent in the Wisconsin Dells one year. So much money, so little time, and so much less for our $.

There are little "carnival style" parks around Disney that leave me with the same feeling. As a resident we just don't do them or rarely do them.
One is Fun Spot. It's nearly $40 a person for the day. For carnival type stuff! It's crazy.
All those other little things along International and 192 as well. They can be 20-40 per person per day. And no wear near the amount of stuff to do like just one park at Disney.

[danheaton]

We have to remember that Disney is competing with itself in terms of its prices. So we can compare it to anything, and I agree that Disney is a good deal when compared to carnival-type parks. However, that's our preference in terms of entertainment.

When you compare Disney's prices to what it was even five years ago, there's a huge difference. They've also put in controls like FP+ that lead to longer waits (speakly only from personal experience to be clear) and limit access to attractions. So in my opinion, the prices are higher for a lesser experience. That's what bugs me right now. I feel like Disney is worth the money, but I'd feel better about the higher prices if we were seeing expansion that warranted them.

[Tekneek]

They've also put in controls like FP+ that lead to longer waits (speakly only from personal experience to be clear) and limit access to attractions.

I believe there was some data analysis that indicated wait times for several attractions decreased after FP+, but others increased. Such as for Pirates, Dinosaur, Haunted Mansion, Spaceship Earth, Jungle Cruise, and a few others, the wait times are higher than before.

Wait times were down the most for Space Mountain and Toy Story Mania, while up the most for Pirates and Dinosaur.

The amount of planning required for a several day trip with both ADRs and FP+ is outside of my comfort zone for planning (and I had already been accused by my wife of over-planning our trips).

The increased prices and hassles have us spending more time closer to home and getting annual passes/memberships to local facilities. One thing we've noticed is that the customer service gap isn't what it used to be between Disney and other operations. Being more acutely aware of that makes me less interested in the higher price difference as well.

[WiltonJohn]

I believe there was some data analysis that indicated wait times for several attractions decreased after FP+, but others increased.

Who did the data analysis and where did the data come from? I can't imagine that Disney released this kind of information.

best,

.............john

[Tekneek]

Who did the data analysis and where did the data come from? I can't imagine that Disney released this kind of information.

best,

.............john

It was the Touring Plans folks, who do lots of data crunching related to Disney resorts/parks.