disappointed with new FP so far

Speedy1998;2478043 wrote: Obviously you were not the person in your party that always had to go get the next Fastpass while everyone else was having fun.

The problem with this argument is that Disney can still have FP+ and not the 60 day window. Technology is there to grab a fast pass for any ride at any kiosk in the park. You don't have to be at the TSM fast pass machine to get a fast pass for TSM.

Goofy4TheWorld;2478037 wrote: Defender here, and I found the crisscrossing of the parks to obtain FPs to be a very unenjoyable part of visiting WDW, and I am glad FP+ has ended it. I tested FP+ in October 2013 during a period where I could use both FPv1 and FPv2 and it really made it aware, when using both systems side-by-side, how much I hated the crisscrossing to a paper FP machine.

If you were criss crossing the parks just to get FP then you were doing things wrong and that is totally on you... Not the old system...

Goofy4TheWorld;2478044 wrote: I disagree with the premise that FP+ has extended standby times, although I will not claim to know anything other than what I read or experience.

Then you would be wrong... While rides such as Splash haven't seen much of a stand by queue line increase, other rides such as Haunted Mansion and Pirates have... Two rides where FP is not necessary, yet the morons put it there to trick unsuspecting guests (or the Disney Can Do No Wrong Crowd) into thinking FP+ is a wonderful thing (it isn't), and great value (it's not)...

I completely agree with DisneyFreak2002. I think the people that argue that FP+ is not the cause of some of the longer lines and argue the throughput point, fail to realize that the reason the standby lines at Haunted Mansion, Pirates of Caribbean, and even Spaceship Earth for crying out loud are long is because people that do not know any better are scheduling FP+'s for those rides and thus causing long standby's. It really isn't the guests fault though, it is Disney's for doing FP+'s on attractions that do not need and should not have them. The fact that they have them on those attractions and then funnel them through while holding the standby line is the problem.

The other problem caused by FP+ is early morning (think rope drop up until lunch) they allow FP+ scheduling for all the rides so if you get there early and do not have FP+ scheduled until later in the day, you are a secondary guest waiting in all the standby lines watching them just funnel through the FP+ guests. This happens even though the park is not crowded at all by any means and if it was standby only, all guest would be flowing right through the line and riding with very minimal wait. This is one of the biggest problems with FP+. The solution is simple, change the system to no FP+ until after Noon....problem solved.

I never crisscrossed the parks for old paper FP's either. We worked around the park in an orderly fashion. If we came upon an attraction that had a really long wait time or a favorite we wanted to hit again later in the day, we grabbed a FP while we were right there and moved on. Later in the day or that night we went back hitting favorites and doing the paper FP's. A lot of times we didn't use a FP at all.

I have been to the parks prior to any FP, with paper FP many many times and now with FP+. I preferred no FP at all and then paper FP and despise FP+. Keep in mind I have been on the prior systems when it was crazy busy and I have been with FP+ when it wasn't real busy so I have first hand experience with all the scenarios. I got more done prior to FP+ on days when the park was reaching capacity on 4th of July week than I could in November with moderate crowds on FP+.

One final thought I will throw out there: Every extreme is almost always followed by another. Whether it be weather, war and peace, or business. Right now theme parks are booming (all theme parks not just WDW) and the flip side is coming watch and see. When the other shoe drops, we will find out just how popular/unpopular FP+ in its current form really is and I am fairly confident I already know the answer on that one. As someone else posted earlier, one day an executive will pull the plug on or radically change FP+ and everybody will act like he is some sort of genius.

Goofy4TheWorld;2478055 wrote: With two young kids, I am focused on MK and AK, which of course does not suffer the plague of tiered FP+ distribution. The tiers at DHS and Epcot drive me bananas, but I guess I have become resigned to them.

You are right that DHS and Epcot have definitely been the most affected by FP+. If they had more E ticket attractions in those parks, it would certainly help!

DizneyFreak2002;2478084 wrote: Then you would be wrong... While rides such as Splash haven't seen much of a stand by queue line increase, other rides such as Haunted Mansion and Pirates have... Two rides where FP is not necessary, yet the morons put it there to trick unsuspecting guests (or the Disney Can Do No Wrong Crowd) into thinking FP+ is a wonderful thing (it isn't), and great value (it's not)...

So if tomorrow Bog Iger is hanged by the neck in a spectacular show inside Liberty Square, and FP+ is disbanded, what happens to the lines at Splash and at Haunted Mansion and Pirates? Are 120 minute waits at Splash and 5 minute waits at Haunted Mansion and Pirates the ideal solution to WDWs line problem? If the same number of people remain in the park after the termination of FP+, what does the utopia of no FPs look like? Where do all of these people go?

1DisneyNut;2478091 wrote: the reason the standby lines at Haunted Mansion, Pirates of Caribbean, and even Spaceship Earth for crying out loud are long.

Reading this had me curious so I checked the wait times on MDE app and all three of these currently are around 30 minutes. I also noticed the Jungle Cruise is around 50 minutes. This is in the morning...Wowzer!

I haven't visited since the days of paper FP in 2012 so I am shocked to see this. When we were there in 2012 we walked into Epcot in the late afternoon (4:00ish) and walked straight onto Spaceship Earth. There were no lines. We also did Pirates and Mansion twice, on separate days, and I think we waited about 10-15 minutes each time. There were no paper FP for any of those.

This enlightens me and now I will be keeping an eye on the wait times more in planning for our 2017 trip.

I'm a big planner but when I'm on vacation I don't like to be tied to plans because it causes me more stress and less relaxation. This is one of the reasons why we only scheduled one ADR on our 2012 trip.

At the end of the day, each person has a different vacation style and not everyone will be happy with everything.

Goofy4TheWorld;2478098 wrote: So if tomorrow Bog Iger is hanged by the neck in a spectacular show inside Liberty Square, and FP+ is disbanded, what happens to the lines at Splash and at Haunted Mansion and Pirates? Are 120 minute waits at Splash and 5 minute waits at Haunted Mansion and Pirates the ideal solution to WDWs line problem? If the same number of people remain in the park after the termination of FP+, what does the utopia of no FPs look like? Where do all of these people go?

If FP+ was terminated?
First the invisible FastPass line would go away. Then what was the Stand-by line would become self regulating. If the wait times are too long guests will move to other attractions in the park. From experience, wait times fluctuate at E-Ticket rides though out the day. With FP, some guests have no wait while others have long stand-by times, without it, everyone would have a moderate wait for most rides. Some won't like even a moderate wait, so they may stop coming. If this happens, Disney will be forced to raise prices (which the do anyway), add more attractions to keep everyone happy and thin the lines or or just live with smaller crowds with happier guests. Just a thought. :mickey:

What if you don't schedule FP+ in advance? or utilize FP+ at all? What is the park experience like these days if you just walk through and standby on the attractions you want? Of if you wait to visit park kiosks to get FP+ instead of scheduling in advance?

I'm just thinking "outloud" as I ponder this.

Goofy4TheWorld;2478098 wrote: So if tomorrow Bog Iger is hanged by the neck in a spectacular show inside Liberty Square, and FP+ is disbanded, what happens to the lines at Splash and at Haunted Mansion and Pirates? Are 120 minute waits at Splash and 5 minute waits at Haunted Mansion and Pirates the ideal solution to WDWs line problem? If the same number of people remain in the park after the termination of FP+, what does the utopia of no FPs look like? Where do all of these people go?

If you read what I wrote, I said Splash's wait time has not been dramatically increased... Splash had FP from the start.... And while yes, FP in general does cause longer stand by lines, FP+ did not increase nor decrease Splash's waiting times... FP did, however, increase Pirates and HM..

Want to know what would solve the issue? More attractions... MK is bursting at the seams... FP+ isn't the answer that the uppers tried to pass it off as... More attractions, more to do is...

Iger been horrible for the parks... HORRIBLE... Staggs is no better... Remember Staggs was Eisner's pick to head up Strategic Planning, you know, the group that was formed and started this downward trend of WDW... Better hope Staggs does not become CEO... He doesn't get it...

j2k;2478127 wrote: What if you don't schedule FP+ in advance? or utilize FP+ at all? What is the park experience like these days if you just walk through and standby on the attractions you want? Of if you wait to visit park kiosks to get FP+ instead of scheduling in advance?

I'm just thinking "outloud" as I ponder this.

Longer stand by wait times... Day of? Good luck... While not impossible for some attractions, most of the popular attractions FP are "sold out" way in advance...

We've never had any issues getting times we are happy with. Never had conflicts eitger, the system should recognize you have an ADR. You can go in and change times after securing attractions you want though

DizneyFreak2002;2478139 wrote: I

Iger been horrible for the parks... HORRIBLE... Staggs is no better... Remember Staggs was Eisner's pick to head up Strategic Planning, you know, the group that was formed and started this downward trend of WDW... Better hope Staggs does not become CEO... He doesn't get it...

Well Staggs will be the next CEO so there's that.

Under Iger we have the Fantasyland expansion, Avatar Land is coming along with the new nighttime show at AK. plus we are getting a revamped Studios with a Starwars Land AND Toy Story Land. Not to mention the fix of California Adventure!

Attendance has never been higher and the Parks and Resorts have never been making more money.

DonaldDuck1117;2478164 wrote: Well Staggs will be the next CEO so there's that.

Under Iger we have the Fantasyland expansion, Avatar Land is coming along with the new nighttime show at AK. plus we are getting a revamped Studios with a Starwars Land AND Toy Story Land. Not to mention the fix of California Adventure!

Attendance has never been higher and the Parks and Resorts have never been making more money.

Actually, you are getting Avatar, a knee jerk reaction by Iger to Universal's success with Potter... And only a brain dead moron wouldn't do anything with Star Wars... So doing a Star Wars expansion doesn't mean Iger gets it... it took him long enough... And only proves the man truly has no clue about how to run the theme parks... Fantasyland expansion, all style, absolutely no substance... Toy Story Playland?? Zzzzzzzzz

And as for attendance, well, thank JK Rowling, Harry Potter, and Universal for bringing more people to Orlando than ever before...

He had absolutely no choice approving DCA's fix cause the park was probably Disney's greatest failure... And you really need to thank John Lasseter for saving DCA not Iger... And Lasseter for saving Disney animation.... And Marvel and now Star Wars for saving Disney Studios... Which was dying under Iger...

And don't count on Staggs just yet...

taleasoldastime;2478065 wrote:
Unfortunately, not everyone can be happy. I guess us old FP lovers had our time, and now it is time for the new FP system to make a different bunch of people happy.

This is true. Again, I have no evidence for this (other than my family), but I think that there is probably a correlation between those that like to repeat rides multiple times while at Disney and those that come back to WDW frequently. I am sure that there are those that don't feel they have to repeat rides a lot that come back every year, but the very nature of liking to repeat things and places you enjoy is inherently what must bring many back year to year. I do not know that first timers or even infrequent visitors (say once every 10 years) will really be affected much, as they do not know what it was like (or things have changed enough anyway) with the old system. However, it may influence their desire to come back soon - especially if they do not see the value given all the preplanning and costs.

Where I think they may start losing visitors is from the frequent visitor group that like to come back and ride their favorite attractions multiple times. I think it is too early to tell if FP+ is affecting this crowd, as FP+ has not been around long enough to start analyzing the effect on people who return every 1 or 2 years. I can speak from experience as this is the first winter in the last 13 years (that includes both really low and some really high crowd times) that we are not going. We may have been able to get a trip in over the holiday break, and with the old system, we would have made it work. However, with the new FP+ system we decided that the amount of planning involved, the cost, and most importantly, the reduced amount of things (rides) that we would be able to do was not worth the money and time. This is coming from a family that loves Disney World (DVC members, etc...). We may go this summer, but I have to say, our previous experiences with FP+ have really turned us off.