Casino operators take on Disney in Florida battle over tourists

[Terra]

I think I may be the only one that sees this an apples to oranges comparison.

Personally I don't care for gambling/casinos [not for any moral reason, Just not something I like to blow my money on].

I want good clean fun that I can take my family too so the casino scene doesn't appeal to me.

I think the two things are on different spectrums and I don't think Disney will be too hurt by.

And hey if more people do choose casino, then that means less crowded parks for me.

[MNNHFLTX]

I'm thinking that the Disney spokesperson is right. When people think of coming to Florida on vacation, they think of "family friendly" vacations. That is what Florida attracts and it ought to stay that way. You open up casinos, then you put out the welcome mat for the filth of the galaxy to show up once a year, or even move there.

I think a 5th of the galaxy already goes to Florida--either in the winter to visit or live parttime (snowbirds!) or to visit Disney World. Personally I don't think a casino will change the numbers, just redistribute where they go somewhat.

[AgentC]

I think a 5th of the galaxy already goes to Florida--either in the winter to visit or live parttime (snowbirds!) or to visit Disney World. Personally I don't think a casino will change the numbers, just redistribute where they go somewhat.

So true Beth! I went to local flea market last weekend and was amazed that the parking lot was almost full and then I remember the snowbirds haven't gone home yet.

I haven't thought a lot about casinos and whether I'd support more or not but Florida is a big state. It's more than just Central FL. There's room for all types of people and all types of vacations.

[TheVBs]

I agree with Terra, this seems apples to oranges. It's kind of hard to imagine a family considering packing up the kids and spending time together in Disney World would say, hey, let's go to a casino instead. Those are two drastically different types of vacations. If someone enjoys a casino trip, they already have other options and are likely choosing them for at least part of their vacation spending. And, yes, this is something Florida residents should decide on.

[1DisneyNut]

I agree with Terra, this seems apples to oranges. It's kind of hard to imagine a family considering packing up the kids and spending time together in Disney World would say, hey, let's go to a casino instead. Those are two drastically different types of vacations. If someone enjoys a casino trip, they already have other options and are likely choosing them for at least part of their vacation spending. And, yes, this is something Florida residents should decide on.

Do you realize how many adults go to WDW without children as well as how many "local" Florida residents.

Even those with children I think would consider staying at Casino resorts for their lower prices, dining options and live shows and just visit WDW during the day. I know I would. I have no doubt this would give some serious direct competition to the WDW resorts.

Then you have all of the convention groups. WDW has a ton of convention business and Casinos would no doubt have a very big impact on that market segment.

Disney is concerned and releasing PR statements regarding this for a reason.......They are worried about the competition.

[mdricks]

The stated reason for Disney opposition is in the article

"may face new competition for convention business."

I know how important convention business is but is there really a ceo/meeting committee out there right now sitting around saying,

"I guess Disney is our only choice.... Too bad there’s not a casino!"

It seems to me Disney is a niche market for conventions. An organization willing to consider a casino venue doesn’t seem to be synergistic with a potential Disney trip.

Just my 2cents.

[JerseyDad]

.....as we're aware ....Disney has no gambling on it's cruise ships. This allows for more rooms (cabins) ....and that's fine. They are HIGH priced cabins I may add.

....we went on ONE Disney cruise ...on the Wonder in 2008 ....with several families. The cruise was great ...service was great ....it was my first cruise and it likely spoiled me. But ...90% of the other families told me that ...while they like the cruise ...they'd never do it again ...because there was no casino / gambling.

....and "family vacation" ...is NOT all about the kiddies ...the adults need to have a good time too.

....our next cruise was on Carnival ...which of course was a third of the cost ...which was clearly off-set by the gambling. And it seemed that the adults were more "into" the vacation experience ...because they got to have fun too.

....so ...gambling may ....or may not hurt WDW ...with the addition of casinos. It may entice more people to go to Fla ...and to WDW ...because there may be more of a variety of activities to please all involved.

.....as noted by 1DisneyNut ...Disney is scared out of their big yello Mickey shoes ....by the prospect of competition. Which may ...heaven forbid ....make them "up their game".

[TheVBs]

DisneyNut and JerseyDad, I can definitely see what you're saying. But, even with an adults only or locals trip, WDW and a casino are still two drastically different destinations. It still seems apples to oranges to me. And as mdricks pointed out, there are already a huge number of hotels nearby with competitive prices for conventions and people visiting WDW who are willing to stay off site.

But, I can't pretend I completely understand all the dynamics of the situation. The above is just what seems logical to me. And, hey, if casinos are something Florida residents want and it inspires Disney to offer a few more discounts, I will happily accept those discounts and continue to stay on site!

[Melanie]

There has been a Hard Rock casino just one hour from WDW in Tampa for years. What am I missing here? I haven't read all these articles, but isn't this just suggesting a few casinos in south Florida, at least for the time being?

[Terra]

Do you realize how many adults go to WDW without children as well as how many "local" Florida residents.

Even those with children I think would consider staying at Casino resorts for their lower prices, dining options and live shows and just visit WDW during the day. I know I would. I have no doubt this would give some serious direct competition to the WDW resorts.

Then you have all of the convention groups. WDW has a ton of convention business and Casinos would no doubt have a very big impact on that market segment.

Disney is concerned and releasing PR statements regarding this for a reason.......They are worried about the competition.

As a Florida resident who went to WDW all the time PRE children, and now post children...why yes we do realize that. We aren't stupid.

Sure some will pick a "cheaper" casino. Go for it. Others will pick Disney. Go for it.
I personally would choose Disney just because I still wouldn't like the atmosphere. And there will be people with NO children doing that too.

Plus there are many people who stay off property on 192 as well. I know I do because it IS cheaper. And we have a favorite hotel there that we go too on our weekend trips.

Trust me, it's still not hurting Disney. It frees up more money to spend in the parks.

[AgentC]

There has been a Hard Rock casino just one hour from WDW in Tampa for years. What am I missing here? I haven't read all these articles, but isn't this just suggesting a few casinos in south Florida, at least for the time being?

Yes, and there is also a Hard Rock in Hollywood as well as 6 non hotel Seminole casino as well as multiple other gambling venues. In fact the proponents of the new casino state Florida is the 4th largest gaming state.

What they want is to

• build new casinos in Miami-Dade/Broward Counties that are "intergrated" which mean hotel, convention, dining, retail and casino in one facility
• Take away exclusive rights to the blackjack and other casino style table games from the Seminoles
• Legalized roulette and craps which are currently illegal in FL

At least that is what I have gotten from reading the local coverage.

[Terra]

Though admittedly the one thing I would hope comes from it is that Disney lowers their Value Resort prices because they are not value priced IMHO

[Hammer]

There has been a Hard Rock casino just one hour from WDW in Tampa for years. What am I missing here? I haven't read all these articles, but isn't this just suggesting a few casinos in south Florida, at least for the time being?

Yes, and there is also a Hard Rock in Hollywood as well as 6 non hotel Seminole casino as well as multiple other gambling venues. In fact the proponents of the new casino state Florida is the 4th largest gaming state.

What they want is to

• build new casinos in Miami-Dade/Broward Counties that are "intergrated" which mean hotel, convention, dining, retail and casino in one facility
  
• Take away exclusive rights to the blackjack and other casino style table games from the Seminoles
• Legalized roulette and craps which are currently illegal in FL

At least that is what I have gotten from reading the local coverage.

Cindy, that's what I understand as well reading the Tampa news sites. The last 2 points I think are the key issues. I know my parents (now just Mom) missed roulette as that is the table game of choice in our family. I think the second point is the biggest issue; doing away with the exclusive rights given to the Seminoles. I think it should be placed to a vote, but there are a lot of things involved, including $1 billion that the Seminoles pay to the state for exclusive rights.

[RunDMV]

I am for anything that "checks" WDW.

[DryCreek]

say keep that trash in Jersey and Neveda.

I found this sentence to be greatly unnecessary.

You are basically insinuating that anyone that gambles are trash.

Not trying to put words in anyone's mouth - but what if Gator was referring NOT to the visitors coming to gamble, but instead to the types of undesirables that tend to migrate to areas where the casinos are. I am referring to those who only work nights and cater to the more baser desires of casino convention revelers (think prostitutes, pushers, pickpockets, etc.).

At least that is how I interpreted the statement. I know that the crime demographics change when casinos move into an area. If I was a resident I would be concerned about those changes.

[DizneyFreak2002]

Not trying to put words in anyone's mouth - but what if Gator was referring NOT to the visitors coming to gamble, but instead to the types of undesirables that tend to migrate to areas where the casinos are. I am referring to those who only work nights and cater to the more baser desires of casino convention revelers (think prostitutes, pushers, pickpockets, etc.).

At least that is how I interpreted the statement. I know that the crime demographics change when casinos move into an area. If I was a resident I would be concerned about those changes.

Come here... a little closer.. I want to whisper a secret to you... Those "undesirables" you talk about... They are already there... Has nothing to do with casinos...

You don't think pickpockets will flock to any area where tourists are? Knowing there are thousands of people there on any given day, just waiting to have their money stolen? They are already on WDW property at any given time of any given day...

Drug pushers and prostitutes? Well, look no further than Orange Blossom Trail... If you ever get the urge to go see the sites out of the WDW bubble, you'd be amazed at what you see just a few miles away, on OBT... and last I knew, OBT did not have any casinos...

So, no, those undesirables are not going to suddenly appear because of a casino in Orlando... Those undesirables are already there...

[TinkerbellT421]

Not trying to put words in anyone's mouth - but what if Gator was referring NOT to the visitors coming to gamble, but instead to the types of undesirables that tend to migrate to areas where the casinos are. I am referring to those who only work nights and cater to the more baser desires of casino convention revelers (think prostitutes, pushers, pickpockets, etc.).

At least that is how I interpreted the statement. I know that the crime demographics change when casinos move into an area. If I was a resident I would be concerned about those changes.

The entire post and then ending it in that sentence told the story in which he was getting at. And trust me, it takes A LOT for me to be offended, you should hear some of the stuff I say outside of this board....so if I was taken aback by it, then it was the entire context not just that one sentence. He was calling Casinos as a whole, trash, which include the players. No way around it. But I am not going to argue semantics about it.

Come here... a little closer.. I want to whisper a secret to you... Those "undesirables" you talk about... They are already there... Has nothing to do with casinos...

You don't think pickpockets will flock to any area where tourists are? Knowing there are thousands of people there on any given day, just waiting to have their money stolen? They are already on WDW property at any given time of any given day...

Drug pushers and prostitutes? Well, look no further than Orange Blossom Trail... If you ever get the urge to go see the sites out of the WDW bubble, you'd be amazed at what you see just a few miles away, on OBT... and last I knew, OBT did not have any casinos...

So, no, those undesirables are not going to suddenly appear because of a casino in Orlando... Those undesirables are already there...

This. Exactly.

[The Phantom]

Why is there an assumption that competition from a large casino resort would result in lower prices for WDW accommodations? Orlando isn't Vegas; there would likely be only one gambling property within a reasonable distance, and as such the operator would have no reason to discount. Excalibur is only $40 a night because there are 150,000 other rooms at gambling properties for people to choose from; by contrast MGM Grand Detroit is consistently $400+ a night year round. The odds of there being any measureable pressure is extremely low, and there might end up being some additional traffic from adults who would like to visit Disney but want some attractions just for themselves.

Got laugh out of the 'undesirables' comment; real life isn't SimCity 2000... crime does not increase when you legalize gambling.

[Quadstriker]

My wife and I have both made our careers in the gaming industry for many years.

I always get a kick out of the very slim but always very vocal minority segment of the population who tries to run "undesirables" and "won't someone think of the children" up the flagpole whenever a new area is looking into casino operation. Whoever said "This isn't SimCity 2000" hit the nail on the head.

Have a look at a map:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gamblin..._United_States

Don't want this to turn into a Gaming vs. Anti-Gaming debate, but to imply that a few state operated casino resorts in Florida would be some sort of doom and gloom button for "The Magics" at WDW in any way is laughable.

WDW needs more competition on all fronts. Their laurels are getting worn out over there from all their use and they won't change until they smash headfirst into a brick wall.

[DryCreek]

Come here... a little closer.. I want to whisper a secret to you... Those "undesirables" you talk about... They are already there... Has nothing to do with casinos...

Oh, I don't doubt that for one minute. You may not know it, but there used to be a U.S. Naval Training Center there. I went to bootcamp there (Company C-173, July 1980) and then for a liaison tour (about four months) before we classed up for NNPS (Class 8104). I know all about the "fun" places on SOBT and out towards the Beeline Expressway. All of the "fun" a sailor could want was there for your picking. I know, I lived it. That still doesn't change the way I interpreted Gator's post. I didn't want to think that just because a person decided to visit a casino that they would suddenly enter the realm of the under class. heck, I know exactly how hard it is to work your way down there. You don't get there just by stepping foot into a certain place.
Now, where will I get my next '84 Camaro for the side yard ornament?