Frozen Attraction Coming to Epcot - Replaces Maelstrom

John;2433896 wrote: Rumored budget is around 70 million. Doesn't sound like part 2 to me....

Wow ... that almost inspired me to say something very family unfriendly that starts with "Holy ....... "

Here's hoping that's true, because for $70 mil ... WOW again!!

Wow ... that almost inspired me to say something very family unfriendly that starts with "Holy ....... "

Like Holy Hockey Sticks, or Holy Hot Cakes, or Holy... well you get the idea. But yes 70 mil...
:thumbsup:

Ian;2433898 wrote: Wow ... that almost inspired me to say something very family unfriendly that starts with "Holy ....... "

Here's hoping that's true, because for $70 mil ... WOW again!!

When John told me that, my reaction started with Holy as well. Maybe not as bad as what you were going to say, but bad enough to be bleeped here. ;) I've got text to prove it.

As for this 'argument', I'm done. I think this is setting a precedent I don't like, but I'm obviously in the minority (and don't have youngins').

 

dnickels;2433828 wrote: BUT, that's not what the majority of people want today. They want to be be shown something for entertainment rather than being stimulated to think or dream or interact. It's why so many people love reality television and follow what celebrities do rather than going out and doing amazing things with their own lives. Epcot is just following the masses. Therefore we get celebrity hosts and cartoon overlays on what used to be educational and immersive pavilions. Now they'll replace a ride based on the history and folklore of a nation with a sing-along ride based on a cartoon. The dumbing down has been going on for awhile, this is just another step in that direction and it's not unexpected. The reality is Disney's job is to get bodies through the turnstiles, not to highlight new technologies, that was always going to be a conflict between the original vision for Epcot and the realities of running a theme park business.

You have to wonder what Norwegians would think about the portrayal of their country changing to a Frozen themed ride.

I 100% agree with you.

My problem is that Disney is making billions lately - Avengers, Capt America, Frozen - but are doing these ticky-tacky park upgrades.
A second Dumbo doesn't thrill me. A bland "upgrade" to Test-Track. A "frozen" ride in the middle of World Showcase seems desperate. When are they going to make a major WELL THOUGHT OUT upgrade?
A Star Wars Land? A Marvel Land? Look at Google Earth. There is tons of land around the parks. Why not put frozen behind the rest of Fantasy Land?

Ian;2433890 wrote:
While I understand that historically Epcot hasn't had characters, let's remember that it's not like Epcot is Walt's creation or something.

I don't think anyone has played the Walt card much in this discussion.

There's no history here beyond just what the Imagineers came up with in the absence of Walt's leadership.

True, but the park also opened about 16 years after Walt died. It was Tom Staggs who invoked the words of Walt Disney to justify his change, not those of us who prefer the classic focus/mission of EPCOT Center.

All I know is today's Epcot is dull. While I enjoy it for the atmosphere, it desperately needs some life. I'm just glad Disney is putting some money into it.

It is dull because the park has been in decline thematically and in sheer number of attractions for many years. Not because of the lack of attractions involving movie characters, but because Disney is largely incapable of driving the concepts the park was built on. It is also pretty universally recognized that they struggle with Tomorrowland as well. They're good at Fantasyland and are, in a way, turning everything into that.

Wow, some 70 million. That is some serious restructuring money!!

Ian...Holy Sheep....Holy Shirts? ;)

I'm not sure about the Cars & Radiator Springs analogy

So Radiator Springs, meh while I agree. At the same time in my own opinion again, The American Pavilion in general are kind of a let down to really capture America. And the restaurant? Are we really known only as a fast food joint. I think of all the food items, America is terrible. There are so many different food types here in America you think they would have made a nice sit down restaurant with American flavors from soul food to tofu dishes to Philly cheese steaks, etc.
As for AA, in my opinion again, it's boring. Except for the song at the end which does capture the essence of America, the pop up sets and speeches get old.

I think EPCOT WS should have set a precedence with America and then worked forward. If we want educational cultural we need to go beyond the facades of the countries and have some type of show in each country that does capture the educational portion. Kind of like at Christmas when they do the Santas around the world.

Terra;2433935 wrote:
To be honest I'm a bit perplexed because in the past so many slam the movie at the end which honestly though outdated, held the biggest educational point in Norway. But people wanted that gone or they always skipped it.

Keep in mind that a new film was made several years ago that Disney refused, as I recall.

I think EPCOT WS should have set a precedence with America and then worked forward. If we want educational cultural we need to go beyond the facades of the countries and have some type of show in each country that does capture the educational portion.

True, they have not done this as well as they could have. At this point, it sounds like Disney (as well as many of its guests) would prefer to just give up. I've not argued that Disney has done this well, I've argued against finding new ways to do it poorly.

Tekneek;2433936 wrote: Keep in mind that a new film was made several years ago that Disney refused, as I recall.

True, they have not done this as well as they could have. At this point, it sounds like Disney (as well as many of its guests) would prefer to just give up. I've not argued that Disney has done this well, I've argued against finding new ways to do it poorly.

You must be an early riser too!!

I didn't know that [or remember that about the film. Interesting.

At the end of the day I think all of us have some valid points, but I also know that Disney is never going to please 100% of the people 100% of the time. I don't know what/if there is one right answer. But I do know that if the World is doing good, they are doing something right.
It doesn't mean that those of us who like this change are not informed or concerned only about passing fads. I just personally happen to like the idea.

As far as what Walt wanted for EPCOT goes, I'm pretty sure he also did not intend for hotels spread all around the property, time shares, and buses being driven for 15-18 hours of each day all over the place. There's a lot more wrong with The Florida Project if we want to get into what Walt would have wanted.

Terra;2433937 wrote:
At the end of the day I think all of us have some valid points, but I also know that Disney is never going to please 100% of the people 100% of the time.

Being happy 100% of the time about everything would be an absurd goal. I would just prefer if they recognized the original intent behind the park and tried to succeed within that criteria. I suppose the truth is that EPCOT Center was regarded as a failure, but nobody wanted to admit as much. What they did do was great, but continuing to carry that vision forward decade after decade proved to be too much for the company to handle. It is on life support now, relying on festivals, tribute bands, and movie-character based overhauls to survive. Imaginatively and innovatively bankrupt.

John;2433896 wrote: Rumored budget is around 70 million. Doesn't sound like part 2 to me....

With that kind of budget there better animatronics that rival the new Dwarfs animatronics. I am one that is sad to Maelstrom go but when you think about it the ride was showing it's age. Although If I was playing Theme Park exec I would have built a new Frozen attraction in DHS instead of EPCOT. Either way new life needs to breathed into EPCOT, I love that park for the atmosphere but there needs to be more substance to the park.

"So much style without substance...So much stuff without style"

seanyred;2433943 wrote: With that kind of budget there better animatronics that rival the new Dwarfs animatronics. I am one that is sad to Maelstrom go but when you think about it the ride was showing it's age. Although If I was playing Theme Park exec I would have built a new Frozen attraction in DHS instead of EPCOT. Either way new life needs to breathed into EPCOT, I love that park for the atmosphere but there needs to be more substance to the park.

"So much style without substance...So much stuff without style"

A Rush fan?

RunDMV;2433947 wrote: A Rush fan?

Lol yes. I was just listening to Power Windows and that line semed to make sense (even though the songs meaning is completely different.)

R33;2433820 wrote: We also waited 40 minutes to do so both days so its definitely not a dead ride.

I don't think the wait time is a 100% reflection of the ride's popularity. It's one of only 2 rides in World Showcase. Some people ride it just for that reason. And since FP+ was introduced, it's been kind of a "leftover" FP choice. Those FPs do affect wait times, because they have to factor those returns back into the standby queue wait. So the wait time can't be a sole factor for measuring popularity. A lot of those people in that line have never ridden Maelstrom before; they're just there because (1) it's a ride in World Showcase, and (2) they had a FP for it.

There are a lot of us who go to Disney repeatedly, but there are also those who go once. Period. And they pay money to ride rides, and Maelstrom is a ride, so people ride it so they can cross it off their lists of rides they paid to ride. And those are the people Disney is targeting. The "one and dones" who Disney wants to make into repeat customers. And Maelstrom, as much as I love it and will miss it, just isn't the "I want to go back!" kind of ride. Y'all have to face it: Disney is cashing in on Frozen's popularity. They'd be stupid not to. And they just expanded Fantasyland, so why would they further interrupt the guest experience at MK to add a Frozen ride?

I love World Showcase. It's always been one of my favorites. I love to stay at Beach Club Villas and stroll in the back of the showcase. Until recently, though, my four kids hated WS. They thought it was boring (the 2 boys, ages 11 and 13, still do, honestly.) They saw it as a grown-ups only park, and it is, to a certain degree. As an adult, I'd love to see it stay that way, but since Disney World is seen as a kids' paradise, I can understand why Disney would want to start luring kids (and their paying parents) to WS. I know a lot of families with kids who skip WS altogether. You cannot convince them that their kids will like it, no matter how many masks they can make at the KIDCOT stops, or how you extol the fun of the Agent P game, or tell them about getting stamps on their passports. Eleven countries with only 2 rides plus a looooooooong walk around a lagoon just doesn't thrill parents of small kids.

brownie;2433865 wrote: And now I'm kicking myself for not riding Maelstrom when we were there in August.

I took my 16 YO daughter on a trip in March. Her spring break didn't line up with my other 3 kids' break, so we did a Mom/Daughter trip. We got a FP for Maelstrom on a whim, and I'm so glad we rode it. All 6 of us are going in November, and my 3 youngest kids are sad that they won't get to ride Maelstrom one last time. I am, too.

Ian;2433890 wrote:
All I know is today's Epcot is dull. While I enjoy it for the atmosphere, it desperately needs some life. I'm just glad Disney is putting some money into it.

Agreed. I love WS, but if I only have 4 or 5 days at the parks, I am usually inclined to skip the countries in favor of a park with rides, simply because my kids prefer DHS, AK, MK and E:FW. It's rare that I get to enjoy strolling around the countries anymore, because my kids think it's soooooo boooooooring. And they're 10, 11, 13 and 16. They have outgrown KIDCOT stops and Agent P, so browsing gift shops just isn't their thing anymore.