Latest Earnings Report - Attendance up at Disneyland and down at Disney World

deedee73;2484586 wrote: I would think many people chose to do DL this year since the 60th Anniversary stuff is still up & available. If I could do both with ease I would probably have gone there bc of the celebration. Maybe this Anniversary contributed to the increase in attendance. That and all the construction at WDW!

That was exactly what I did. I took my sister to WDW last April/May and then went to DL (solo) in December for the 60th.

I am considering a WDW trip this year, but with 1/3 of DHS closed/under destruction/construction and a good portion of AK (Avatarland) still incomplete, as well as the little closures/rehabs/etc. at the other two parks, it is difficult to "pull the trigger" and schedule another trip. For the costs involved, even going solo, seeing so much of the parks with construction walls/scrims/etc. just doesn't play well.

PopPhan;2484599 wrote: That was exactly what I did. I took my sister to WDW last April/May and then went to DL (solo) in December for the 60th.

I am considering a WDW trip this year, but with 1/3 of DHS closed/under destruction/construction and a good portion of AK (Avatarland) still incomplete, as well as the little closures/rehabs/etc. at the other two parks, it is difficult to "pull the trigger" and schedule another trip. For the costs involved, even going solo, seeing so much of the parks with construction walls/scrims/etc. just doesn't play well.

If that's the case, then what you have is Disney competing with itself.

A lot of people love the idea of DLR and WDW being different than each other. Me personally, I was upset at the time that DLR was getting Carsland while WDW wasn't.

The argument people made was this would make people want to go to DLR instead of going to WDW. So now when you have 2 parks in the same country, yes even though they are a long ways away, you're now competing with each other.

When you let one get stale, why not jump on a plane and head west for the new stuff?

There are so many things pointing to why WDW's attendance has declined its not even funny.

Its been neglected for so long, yet because the consumer has allowed them, they've used it as a cash cow to prop up the construction of other parks.

What I would REALLY like to know is the rate of return guests versus the rate of first time visitors. I am going to guess return guest numbers are down.

Well, if you have repeat guests not coming back and you price out a lot of your would-be first timers, then I guess it makes sense that attendance is down. Especially when you factor in how much of DHS and AK is under construction.

TheVBs;2484640 wrote: Especially when you factor in how much of DHS and AK is under construction.

That is why crowds appear larger, the guests are just crammed into smaller and smaller areas.

Altair;2484641 wrote: That is why crowds appear larger, the guests are just crammed into smaller and smaller areas.

I've often thought that about Epcot, the Studios, and Animal Kingdom. Like no wonder rides like Soarin' and Test Track and Toy Story Mania have such long lines. They're the only real rides in each park.

I've often said if you stack the parks up by number of actual worthwhile attractions it's Magic Kingdom with like 25 or so and all the rest have well under 15. When you think about how much money you're spending per day, per park and how few actual really good attractions there are at each one it's kind of shocking.

Being generous ...

Magic Kingdom (28)

-7DMT
-Under the Sea: Journey of the Little Mermaid
-Peter Pan
-It's A Small World
-The Many Adventures of Winnie the Pooh
-Dumbo
-Goofy's Barstormer
-Mickey's Philharmagic
-The Carousel
-Mad Tea Party
-Tomorrowland Speedway
-Space Mountain
-Buzz Lightyear
-Astro Orbiter
-Stitch's Great Escape (I bit my lip while I wrote this one)
-TTA
-Carousel of Progress
-Laugh Floor
-Haunted Mansion
-Hall of Presidents
-Splash Moutain
-Big Thunder Mountain
-Country Bear Jamboree
-Tiki Room
-Magic Carpet's of Aladdin
-Pirates
-Jungle Cruise
-WDW Railroad

Epcot (13)

-Spaceship Earth
-The Seas with Nemo and Friends
-Soarin
-Living With the Land
-Turtle Talk with Crush
-Mission Space
-Test Track
-Ellen's Energy Adventure
-The American Adventure
-Gran Fiesta Tour Starring the Three Cabelleros
-Impressions De France
-O'Canada!
-Reflections of China

Studios (12)

-Muppet Vision 3D
-Star Tours
-Rock 'n' Roller Coaster
-Tower of Terror
-Great Movie Ride
-Toy Story Mania
-One Man's Dream
-Voyage of the Little Mermaid
-Disney Junior Live On Stage
-Indiana Jones Stunt Spectacular
-Beauty and the Beast Stage Show
-Frozen Sing Along

Animal Kingdom (14)

-It's Tough To Be A Bug
-Festival of the Lion King
-Kilmanjaro Safari
-Panjani Forest Exploration Trail
-Wildlife Express Train
-Conservation Station
-Flights of Wonder
-Maharajah Jungle Trek
-Kali River Rapids
-Expedition Everest
-Finding Nemo: The Musical
-Primeval Whirl
-Triceratops Spin
-Dinosaur

Ian;2484716 wrote: I've often thought that about Epcot, the Studios, and Animal Kingdom. Like no wonder rides like Soarin' and Test Track and Toy Story Mania have such long lines. They're the only real rides in each park.

I've often said if you stack the parks up by number of actual worthwhile attractions it's Magic Kingdom with like 25 or so and all the rest have well under 15. When you think about how much money you're spending per day, per park and how few actual really good attractions there are at each one it's kind of shocking.

Being generous ...

Magic Kingdom (28)

-7DMT
-Under the Sea: Journey of the Little Mermaid
-Peter Pan
-It's A Small World
-The Many Adventures of Winnie the Pooh
-Dumbo
-Goofy's Barstormer
-Mickey's Philharmagic
-The Carousel
-Mad Tea Party
-Tomorrowland Speedway
-Space Mountain
-Buzz Lightyear
-Astro Orbiter
-Stitch's Great Escape (I bit my lip while I wrote this one)
-TTA
-Carousel of Progress
-Laugh Floor
-Haunted Mansion
-Hall of Presidents
-Splash Moutain
-Big Thunder Mountain
-Country Bear Jamboree
-Tiki Room
-Magic Carpet's of Aladdin
-Pirates
-Jungle Cruise
-WDW Railroad

Epcot (13)

-Spaceship Earth
-The Seas with Nemo and Friends
-Soarin
-Living With the Land
-Turtle Talk with Crush
-Mission Space
-Test Track
-Ellen's Energy Adventure
-The American Adventure
-Gran Fiesta Tour Starring the Three Cabelleros
-Impressions De France
-O'Canada!
-Reflections of China

Studios (12)

-Muppet Vision 3D
-Star Tours
-Rock 'n' Roller Coaster
-Tower of Terror
-Great Movie Ride
-Toy Story Mania
-One Man's Dream
-Voyage of the Little Mermaid
-Disney Junior Live On Stage
-Indiana Jones Stunt Spectacular
-Beauty and the Beast Stage Show
-Frozen Sing Along

Animal Kingdom (14)

-It's Tough To Be A Bug
-Festival of the Lion King
-Kilmanjaro Safari
-Panjani Forest Exploration Trail
-Wildlife Express Train
-Conservation Station
-Flights of Wonder
-Maharajah Jungle Trek
-Kali River Rapids
-Expedition Everest
-Finding Nemo: The Musical
-Primeval Whirl
-Triceratops Spin
-Dinosaur

The funny thing is, being realistic, Magic Kingdom does in fact have at least 25 attractions worth doing every time. Epcot has 5, maybe 6 at best. Studios has 6, maybe 7 and Animal Kingdom 6 maybe 7. In reality, Magic Kingdom is worth $100 per day but the rest are $30 per day parks. Seriously, Sea World or Busch Gardens have more and better attractions than the other 3 WDW parks.

yea...im going in sept but not as long as i would usually spend at disney. the last few trips ive gone to Universal..and one trip last yr i went to Universal and no disney for the first time..i hope Epcot gets some loving and HS has some worthwhile additions...so far not impressed w the Toy Story stuff. hope the Star Wars pans out

Ian;2484534 wrote: It will be very interesting to see if this leads to some much needed changes in WDW leadership. I wrote a long, very detailed letter to Iger the day we got back about how bad it's gotten. Still no response, though.

....I'd love to see that letter.

....because I have felt that the bang for the buck has been diminishing for a while. And ...though I just don't have time to frequent the boards here as often as I used to ....I did express those sentiments after my last trip in 2013 on several other Disney related boards....

...and I got blasted for doing so by many who refused to see the negative aspects that were popping up everywhere at WDW.

....we went every year between 2004 (twice actually that year) ...and 2013 ....and to be honest ....I'm having a hard time committing to an August or September trip this year ......even though the wife wants to go.

Hammer;2484568 wrote:
I agree about the value not being there, but I notice it much more with hotels. I have complained for years how Disney Deluxe hotels aren't truly deluxe hotels. The Four Seasons has helped to force Disney to improve some things, but the pricing structure is still way off for all Disney hotels. No way is Caribbean Beach is worth $200 a night or Pop Century worth $130 a night, and that's the AP rate! The value is not there for it. The location is not worth that sort of markup! I can stay at a 4-5 star resort right on the Gulf of Mexico for less than a Disney deluxe hotel and have the amenities I expect from a deluxe resort. It is why I bought into DVC; my costs are fixed to the price of my mainenance fees. I would love if Disney would hire a person with serious hotel experience from a corporation like Fairmount, Kimpton, or Hilton (I like Hilton more than Marriott) to head the hotel division.

I may have to revise my complaint on Disney hotel pricing, at least for Deluxe resorts. I checked the AP rate for 2 nights next month when I will be in the area to finish the transaction for the sale of my parents’ condo and I was considering just going to the beach for a couple of nights. I did some research and obtained prices for standard rooms (no gulf view) at 4 star rated hotels on Clearwater and St. Pete beaches. Disney deluxe hotels have the same ratings on the websites I used. The hotels I priced were Tradewinds Island Grand, Guy Harvey Outpost, and the Don Cesar on St. Pete Beach as well as Opal Sands, Sandpearl Resort, and Sheraton Sand Key Resort on Clearwater Beach. To my surprise, the standard room with no view at these beach hotels was only slightly less than the standard room for the AP rate at the Yacht Club and many were more. Here’s the kicker, though. This charge does not include a mandatory resort fee that all of these hotels charge. Cheapest resort fee was $25 a night. Now, the resort fee does give you access to various amenities like parking, but as of right now, those things are included in the room fee at WDW (I am aware they floated out that survey on resort fees a couple of months ago). I still think they need to improve the amenities for Disney Deluxe resorts and the pricing model for the moderate and value categories is still way too high, though.

Clearwater Beach area is always considerably higher than most others. I like the area pretty well but don't go there that often because there are so many other beaches with much better pricing. The resort fees tick me off and I do my best not to stay anywhere that has them but sometimes they are still the best option.

Hotels at any beach are typically overpriced. I can usually rent a nice condo for less than hotel rates.

deedee73;2484586 wrote: I would think many people chose to do DL this year since the 60th Anniversary stuff is still up & available. If I could do both with ease I would probably have gone there bc of the celebration. Maybe this Anniversary contributed to the increase in attendance. That and all the construction at WDW!

PopPhan;2484599 wrote: That was exactly what I did. I took my sister to WDW last April/May and then went to DL (solo) in December for the 60th.

I am considering a WDW trip this year, but with 1/3 of DHS closed/under destruction/construction and a good portion of AK (Avatarland) still incomplete, as well as the little closures/rehabs/etc. at the other two parks, it is difficult to "pull the trigger" and schedule another trip. For the costs involved, even going solo, seeing so much of the parks with construction walls/scrims/etc. just doesn't play well.

This is exactly why we went to Disneyland. The net costs were about the same and we got so much more experience for our money. Airfare was more expensive since we flew from the east coast, but the hotel was much cheaper since we stayed off property - but still across the street! - ticket prices for three adults and one child for three days (non park hopper) were a little more than our last WDW trip, but that was because we added a day. Food costs were also about the same.

That being said, everyone agreed that we enjoyed our experience at Disneyland much more than Disney World, which in a way made me very sad. My family are still Disney park newbies, but I've been to WDW enough times to notice a huge difference in the experience, the park maintenance, the magic, the energy... it's really been lacking in WDW. Even with the multiple closures in Disneyland for the Star Wars construction we were not unhappy about any of it. We can't say that about our last WDW trip.

My fiance and I are planning on kicking off our honeymoon at WDW a little more than a year from now, and it will be our first trip back in 3 years. Construction there moves at a snail's pace compared to Disneyland, but I guess we are holding out hope for any improvement!

BriarRose0708;2484953 wrote: This is exactly why we went to Disneyland. The net costs were about the same and we got so much more experience for our money. Airfare was more expensive since we flew from the east coast, ...

I was actually surprised at the airfare. I flew Southwest out of Baltimore and it was only a little over $100 more roundtrip that my last trip to WDW. My hotel was more expensive, in that I stayed at Paradise Pier, but it was all well worth it.

1DisneyNut;2484907 wrote: Clearwater Beach area is always considerably higher than most others. I like the area pretty well but don't go there that often because there are so many other beaches with much better pricing. The resort fees tick me off and I do my best not to stay anywhere that has them but sometimes they are still the best option.

Hotels at any beach are typically overpriced. I can usually rent a nice condo for less than hotel rates.

I was born in the area and most of my Mom's family still lives down here, so we have rented condos for the week for many years. My parents had moved back when they retired, but neither my sister or I really like the location of the condo they owned, so we decided to sell it as part of my Mom's estate (Dad died almost 6 years ago), thus the reason for my quick trip as I am executor. I don't really like any of the condo style resorts that offer a nightly rate, so I am opting for a hotel this time as there were certain amenities I want to enjoy. My first choice for a gulf beach is Indian Rocks/Indian Shores. Don't really like the Redington beaches, so I skipped the Hilton.

Actually got a great rate at the Sandpearl resort through a certain "Booking" website, where the cost was just slightly more than the Yacht Club, but I don't have the 90 minute drive to WDW. The hotel looks gorgeous with great amenities!

We still have APs but we change to the silver(seasonal) pass this year now that parking is included. That keeps us away during the summer, Christmas and Easter. That's ok with us. But we have been talking about not renewing this year and maybe getting AP at Universal for a change. Seems that Disney has this new attitude that if you aren't spending 800 a night at GF, you really aren't worth their effort in keeping you entertained. I think higher prices are keeping people away.