Dishing on Downton- Downton Abbey Season 5

Really could not stand Edith this episode. Besides walking around under a storm cloud all the time and expecting all of Yorkshire to mope around with her, she callously and cold-heartedly steals Marigold away from Mrs Drewe in particular.

I get she probably still retained the legal rights, but she treats Marigold like a toy she can play with and drop off, take back and return. This is the 2nd mother that she has now ripped Marigold away from, hard to see Edith as a sympathetic character any more. Unfortunately it looks to be another case of a convenient inheritance (Gregson's business) that will probably allow Edith to function without the family money.

I just wish they could/would put the whole Edith storyline to bed as well as the death of Mr. Greene. I wouldn't mind knowing who actually killed him, but I don't need two-three seasons to find out.

I completely disagree with you on the Edith storyline. Yes, it was hard for the farmer's wife, and I'm sure Marigold will have some issues with that for now. But I think everyone was completely insensitive to Edith, especially Mary. After what Mary went through with Matthew, you think she could have shown her sister some understanding.

I can't blame a woman for moping around when she had the news she was dreading at last, the confirmation of her loved one's death. She was mourning, and it was especially hard because everyone kept carrying on around her like it was nothing. But it acted on Edith as a catalyst to stop living the life forced on her and to make her own choices, choices made possible by her inheritance as it turns out. And I say, good for her! I see it as Edith finally turning her back on the rigid rules and making her own way. It's too bad for the farmer's wife, but she would have cut Edith off entirely from Marigold, which was against the whole purpose of settling Marigold there in the first place.

SBETigg;2446695 wrote: I completely disagree with you on the Edith storyline. Yes, it was hard for the farmer's wife, and I'm sure Marigold will have some issues with that for now. But I think everyone was completely insensitive to Edith, especially Mary. After what Mary went through with Matthew, you think she could have shown her sister some understanding.

I can't blame a woman for moping around when she had the news she was dreading at last, the confirmation of her loved one's death. She was mourning, and it was especially hard because everyone kept carrying on around her like it was nothing. But it acted on Edith as a catalyst to stop living the life forced on her and to make her own choices, choices made possible by her inheritance as it turns out. And I say, good for her! I see it as Edith finally turning her back on the rigid rules and making her own way. It's too bad for the farmer's wife, but she would have cut Edith off entirely from Marigold, which was against the whole purpose of settling Marigold there in the first place.

I agree on all your points, Sherri. It's nice to think Mary would show some sympathy but I think Matthew softened her (she's said as much) and now that he's gone and she's out of mourning for him she's back to her old Season 1 Mary. I love to hate her!

SBETigg;2446695 wrote: I completely disagree with you on the Edith storyline. Yes, it was hard for the farmer's wife, and I'm sure Marigold will have some issues with that for now. But I think everyone was completely insensitive to Edith, especially Mary. After what Mary went through with Matthew, you think she could have shown her sister some understanding.

I was surprised when I was reading recaps of this episode that so many people hated Edith's actions. Yes, it was sad for Mrs. Drewe and I did think that it was sad Edith had hurt two other women but I felt it as offset by the fact that Edith felt she had no choice and with her position in life and society at the time that is a reasonable feeling. If Edith had been in control of the decision she would have never given her baby away. Also if Mr. Drewe had been honest with his wife, it may have been a very different situation there as well.

Mary. Ugh but ugh in a good way. She is definitely more interesting when she is being arrogant and self absorbed.

Bates & Anna- Just please make it stop.

Other high points for me-

• The dowager expressing that she does like Isobel
• Cora's reprimand of Robert that gets him out of his dressing room
• Mr. Carson and Mrs. Hughes- I can totally picture them together in their "shared" house.

I'm also in total agreement with Sherri on the Edith story line.

BriarRose0708;2446734 wrote: It's nice to think Mary would show some sympathy but I think Matthew softened her (she's said as much) and now that he's gone and she's out of mourning for him she's back to her old Season 1 Mary. I love to hate her!

I'm right on board with the hating Mary group. I had sort of forgotten, until this week's episode, how truly nasty Mary is to the very core. There is nothing like a good villainess to liven up a story line.

SBETigg;2446695 wrote: I completely disagree with you on the Edith storyline. Yes, it was hard for the farmer's wife, and I'm sure Marigold will have some issues with that for now. But I think everyone was completely insensitive to Edith, especially Mary. After what Mary went through with Matthew, you think she could have shown her sister some understanding.

I can't blame a woman for moping around when she had the news she was dreading at last, the confirmation of her loved one's death. She was mourning, and it was especially hard because everyone kept carrying on around her like it was nothing. But it acted on Edith as a catalyst to stop living the life forced on her and to make her own choices, choices made possible by her inheritance as it turns out. And I say, good for her! I see it as Edith finally turning her back on the rigid rules and making her own way. It's too bad for the farmer's wife, but she would have cut Edith off entirely from Marigold, which was against the whole purpose of settling Marigold there in the first place.

Do you remember those Burger King commercials, with the mascot in the big head (still freaks me out) and people would wake up and he'd be next to them in bed, or they'd open their windows first thing in the morning and he'd be there? Well, that's what Edith was turning into. Mrs. Drewe wasn't privy to Edith's secret, all she knew was that an old friend of Mr. Drewe died and asked them to raise the child. So to have Edith stalking the Drewe's and the child was naturally troubling to Mrs. Drewe. If Edith would have simply told her the truth and not been so selfish about her position and reputation maybe things would have been different, but it was her own actions that were creating the chain of events. Sybil managed to marry way out of class and marry and raise her child Catholic, despite her families and societies condemnation of it, yet Edith possesses none of that courage.

She lets everyone else make the choices for her and then she herself shows no remorse in ripping apart someone elses life. I don't see Edith's loss any greater than Mary's, probably less so as they were not together all that long. If Mary were still carrying on like that a year later I'm sure Edith would have had some choice words for her as well. Yeah the timing wasn't great, but Edith is sitting around wondering why all of York hasn't stopped living until she came to terms with it.

Mary lost Mathew, Tom lost Sybil, Cora lost a son, the house lost a footman to the war, Mrs. Patmore lost her nephew, Anna was raped, Bates was in jail, its not like Edith has a monopoly on the "woe is me" category.

I just find her character to be written very unsympathetically.

Yes, Cindy, I loved those scenes, too. Especially Cora finally showing some backbone. And I love Mary in viper mode, too. Great developments.

We're just going to disagree on Edith, Ghost. I have sympathy for Mrs. Drewe. She loved Marigold as her own, and it's horrible to have her ripped away. It was always conditional and she should have been informed of the conditions (probably by her husband, not by Edith) but the fact remains that Edith finally has a way to raise her own child of course, she's going to take it.

SBETigg;2446748 wrote: Yes, Cindy, I loved those scenes, too. Especially Cora finally showing some backbone. And I love Mary in viper mode, too. Great developments.

We're just going to disagree on Edith, Ghost. I have sympathy for Mrs. Drewe. She loved Marigold as her own, and it's horrible to have her ripped away. It was always conditional and she should have been informed of the conditions (probably by her husband, not by Edith) but the fact remains that Edith finally has a way to raise her own child of course, she's going to take it.

Was it conditional? I'm trying to recall exactly what the agreement Edith and Drewe struck. Was there actually any intent for Edith to at some point take the child back? I didn't think so, but I could be mistaken.

Edith took the child back from the Schroeders to be closer to Edith in England. But didn't Edith say that was ok, because, well, they got another kid anyway.

I didn't think there was any plan for Edith to ever recognize the child, just be the child's patron.

It was doomed to fail from the beginning, keeping Mrs Drewe in the dark, as you knew Edith couldn't stay away.

The Hitchhiking Ghost;2446758 wrote:
I didn't think there was any plan for Edith to ever recognize the child, just be the child's patron.

It was doomed to fail from the beginning, keeping Mrs Drewe in the dark, as you knew Edith couldn't stay away.

Yeah, that was the condition, that Edith would maintain contact. Once Mrs. Drewe cut off Edith instead of allowing her to be the child's patron, Mr. Drewe should have seen it coming and intervened more successfully somehow. It was a bad plan all around, though, I can agree on that. Someone was bound to be hurt in that arrangement, and I can't imagine why Mr. Drewe was willing to take the risk knowing that he was deceiving his wife to help Edith. And anyone could see that Edith was determined to be more in her child's life than a casual visitor.

Yes, I am tired of Bates and Anna storyline going back to Mr. Greene. Lets move on from that enough already. I like Rose. Her character is confusing the way her storylines jump around but for the most part, I have enjoyed her. Soooo glad Ms. Bunting is gone.:ack:

I love Violet and Isobel! Hope Tom finds someone- like his character. Thomas not so much - his character is not very enjoyable. I do like Mr. Moseley but Violet's butler with his puffed up, snotty attitude - don't understand why she puts up with him?? Did I miss something???? He is so rude to her guests.

Hope Edith finds happiness. I wish she could just bring the toddler home and be accepted.

I never did make it to Winterthur in Delaware to see the Downton Abbey costume exhibit- did anyone get to go? It was billed as the only American display for the exhibit but I think now it as moved to a southern location (maybe the Biltmore Estate??cant remember what the paper said)

I think that sometimes we lose the fact of Downton Abbey was in a time very, very different from what we live today. I doubt that the term "double standard" was ever considered then, so Robert and Cora's relationship of course is rather hard to imagine today. And the very idea of a young woman of Edith's station openly having and raising a child without marriage would indeed be covered up.

The Hitchhiking Ghost;2446747 wrote:

She lets everyone else make the choices for her and then she herself shows no remorse in ripping apart someone elses life. I don't see Edith's loss any greater than Mary's, probably less so as they were not together all that long. If Mary were still carrying on like that a year later I'm sure Edith would have had some choice words for her as well. Yeah the timing wasn't great, but Edith is sitting around wondering why all of York hasn't stopped living until she came to terms with it.

Funny, I have a completely different perspective on the whole situation with Edith. I have always thought she was a very independent, practical character on the show. When she was stood up at the alter by Sir Anthony, she picked herself up and was at the breakfast table the next morning because "only married women have breakfast in bed". She pursued a writing career, an unusual thing for a woman to do back in the day. And now she has the power and money to take the situation with her daughter back into her own hands. I also feel empathy for Mrs. Drewe's character, but Edith will undoubtedly be a more hands-on mother than Mary has ever been. Marigold will be just fine.

It's not that I really like Edith on the show as much as I like her in comparison to Mary, lol. Aside from her ratting Mary out in the first season for her "indiscretion", Edith has been mostly loyal to the people in her family, while Mary is mainly loyal to Mary and Downton Abbey. When Mary said in this last episode that Gregson was a nice man but "I don't know what he ever saw in Edith", it was so snarky in light of everything going on that it almost made me laugh. This from someone who moped around in dark rooms for pretty much all of season 5 after Matthew died. Anyway, now as she considers which suiters she should allow to pursue her, she puts Anna's relationship with Bates at risk by asking her to hide her "device" for her (I knew that was going to happen!) Ugh! Anway, it's funny how we all have our favorites (or least favorites, as it may be). Guess the show must be doing something right to make us want to debate the subject, lol!

I finally caught up on my shows last night.

I loved Cora's tactic for getting Grantham over himself. However, it almost felt like a catch 22. For his sake, he should be thankful that she is a forgiving person.

I'm so glad Ms. Bunting is gone.

I've wanted Edith to have her baby from the beginning. I do have sympathy for Mrs. Drewe, but I'm happier for Edith. And while her mourning has lasted a while, the confirmation just arrived and that is what Mary should take into consideration. I'm officially back to disliking Mary. ;)

Mabel Lane Fox is taking Mary in stride. Perhaps it's just for show until she wins back her man. Either Gillingham has changed or I have because I don't much care for him anymore, either.

Thomas really does have a friend in Baxter. Why does he constantly do things to push people away? Periodically he bemoans his lack of friendship and yet he constantly brings it on himself. I don't understand the psychology of his motives.

I find it ironic that we're supposed to accept the double standard given Cora because of the way things were in those times. Yet, we're supposed to believe that Thomas's orientation would have been generally accepted without question. Honestly, as accepting as everyone has been, why is he trying so hard to change? The only impression I've ever had as to why people dislike him is because of how unpleasant he is.

How come no one caught on before that Bates' ticket wasn't torn? Were they just so shocked to know he'd made the purchase in the first place?

OK, I'm slightly confused with the Carson-Hughes storyline. Do you think he wants to marry her? Would it not be out of the ordinary for an unrelated man and woman to invest together during that time period? However, I do love their interactions. He's so formal and she loosens him.

Speaking of formal, I love Spratt. He makes Carson look like a laid back farm hand. Talking with that stiff upper lip cracks me up. I laughed when Violet said the whole household panders to Spratt and he rules with an iron fist. He and Denker are another set I'll enjoy watching.

magicofdisney;2446918 wrote: I finally caught up on my shows last night.

I find it ironic that we're supposed to accept the double standard given Cora because of the way things were in those times. Yet, we're supposed to believe that Thomas's orientation would have been generally accepted without question. Honestly, as accepting as everyone has been, why is he trying so hard to change? The only impression I've ever had as to why people dislike him is because of how unpleasant he is

I don't think Thomas' orientation is as accepted as the show puts on. I think it was end of season 2 or 3 and I think someone was trying to blackmail Thomas and Robert said something like "well, I thought everyone knew" like it wasn't a big deal. But look at the movie that is out right now starring Benedict Cumberbatch, "The Imitation Game" which is about a British codebreaker during WWII that breaks the Germans Enigma code. But post WWII he was imprisoned for his "orientation" and later committed suicide. So while Downton might accept Thomas for who he is, Britain as a whole would not have been accepting in 1924, not when 30 years later they were still imprisoning people for the "illegal act".