Why so negative?

I don't go to any theme park except Disney. That's how much I love it. So I can only compare Disney to itself. Therefor, I notice that some things are better and some things are not. There's nothing wrong with pointing out a disappointment from time to time. Unfortunately, because there are so many fans here, the shouts of discontent can seem overwhelming at times to some people.

Hey there from about 30 minutes on the other (south) side of Hershey!!! LOL

Unfortunately, most of the posters on here are long time visitors, some from the early days of the parks, and have seen the 'glory days' of Disney parks and are jaded by the cost cutting and changing of things that they have loved for years. Personally, I have been visiting for the past 15 years, so am a relative 'newbie' and I have seen a lot of things change - some for the better, some for the worse.

Just like the news programs, it is easier and gets better ratings when what you say is negative. You can always get someone on board to bash, but to get someone on board to praise is much harder. Notice that when that happens, often the poster gets nailed for their 'rose tinted glasses' outlook and attitude.

Prices of food at Disney: Comparable to ballpark or amusement/theme parks elsewhere.
Costs of lodging: Higher end, but comparable to large visitor areas (New York, Las Vegas, LA, etc.)
Entry ticket prices: Comparable to USO, and other major parks. I would actually say more reasonable than Hershey for what you get.
Cleanliness: On par or better than MOST other parks/resorts.
Staff (CM) friendliness: Even with the decline over the years, it is still MUCH better than other parks and resorts I have visited.

A lot of construction going on, but even Walt stated that the parks were always expected to be in a state of flux. Updates, changes, additions, subtractions were all to be expected.

Losing original Disney characters for Pixar, Marvel, etc. characters is a bit of a downer, but you run with what is popular at the time and what will bring the visitors.

I will grouse about things as much as the next guy, but because visits always make me happy in the end, I will still be a fan and will visit whenever possible. (Next visit is 8 days away!!!!!)

I agree "pop phan" with all of your comparisons. I am probably considered a "newbie" by those standards as well. It's just a little disheartening when you see a post about "new things coming our way" and about 5 replies in you see "just another way to grab your money" or "how many people are they going to try to cram into that party?"....

Don't get me wrong, I too have seen a lot of changes and prices going only one way...and I have had a bad experience or two. But 95% of the time you get a quality experience. You can't say that about anywhere else.

I don't know, I guess I just enjoy INTERCOT as a pick me up and a way to not only get ready for the next trip, but a way to have a little bit of Disney with me everyday. And it's hard to scroll past some of the downers.

Great post BDM from DMB at about 2 hours east of Hershey and a frequent visitor of that location!

Disney is a business and businesses run far differently than they did 50 years ago. Certainly not theoretically, but the focus of modern business is the shareholder. Private business may not be fully aligned but certainly there is a high focus on investor return vs. doing something for the love of it.

If ol' Walt was still running things who even knows if Disney would still exist, let alone operating multiple parks across several continents and owning the box office dynamo of Lucas, Marvel and Pixar, plus ABC and affiliated networks. Walt nearly ran Disney out of business several times.

I'm sure back in 1971 when WDW opened they had an operating budget, but it wasn't to the level that it is managed today with big data, algorithms and analytics. Surely in those calculations Disney is looking at investor return, but they are also considering user experience to both visitors and investors happy.

There was a string on here a few weeks back about the volume of traffic on Intercot as compared to other outlets, including social media. We saw it last week with Mark Z on the hill, but social media is our downfall. Trolling is a way of life and unfortunately Intercot users are (or can be) no different. I still come here daily though because there are many nice people. I just avoid the strings that don't interest me; those like conversations on new parking fees. Plus the mods do a nice job of policing, but you need to let folks express opinions.

With that said, I totally agree with you that dollar for dollar, Disney is among the best in entertainment and leisure for perceived value. I don't agree with Disney 100%, mostly around its TV broadcasting subsidiaries, but I still like to think that they have Walt's best interests in good story telling at heart. That's what keeps me going to their movies and parks!

Great post BDM from DMB at about 2 hours east of Hershey and a frequent visitor of that location!

Disney is a business and businesses run far differently than they did 50 years ago. Certainly not theoretically, but the focus of modern business is the shareholder. Private business may not be fully aligned but certainly there is a high focus on investor return vs. doing something for the love of it.

If ol' Walt was still running things who even knows if Disney would still exist, let alone operating multiple parks across several continents and owning the box office dynamo of Lucas, Marvel and Pixar, plus ABC and affiliated networks. Walt nearly ran Disney out of business several times.

I'm sure back in 1971 when WDW opened they had an operating budget, but it wasn't to the level that it is managed today with big data, algorithms and analytics. Surely in those calculations Disney is looking at investor return, but they are also considering user experience to both visitors and investors (sometimes one in the same) happy.

There was a string on here a few weeks back about the volume of traffic on Intercot as compared to other outlets, including social media. We saw it last week with Mark Z on the hill, but social media is our downfall. Trolling is a way of life and unfortunately Intercot users are (or can be) no different. I still come here daily though because there are many nice people. I just avoid the strings that don't interest me; those like conversations on new parking fees. Plus the mods do a nice job of policing, but you need to let folks express opinions.

With that said, I totally agree with you that dollar for dollar, Disney is among the best in entertainment and leisure for perceived value. I don't agree with Disney 100%, mostly around its TV broadcasting subsidiaries, but I still like to think that they have Walt's best interests in good story telling at heart. That's what keeps me going to their movies and parks!

Your sentiments are well-taken, bdm. I think it's safe to say that most, if not all, of our members joined Intercot with the same motivation as you--they were avid Disney fans and/or planning trips to Disney World and wanted helpful,l friendly advice. As PopPhan mentioned, over the years it's been a bit difficult for us "old-timers" to reconcile many of the changes to our beloved World, while those who've only started going there in recent years would not see any difference. We do welcome viewpoints on both ends of the spectrum, but would never want every thread to become a "Debbie-Downer". Thank you for bringing it to our attention and I will personally endeavor to bring back more of a positive and helpful tone to our threads.

This kind of thread happens from time to time. Change is hard. Especially when that change is the loss of a beloved attraction, theme, menu item, etc. Also, when the change costs money (at the consumer level).

We've been regular WDW attendees for about 15 years now. We've been Annual Pass Holders three times in those 15 years. We're DVC members at OKW. We've had vacations at Hilton Head and Aulani. Heck, we're Disney stockholders. It has all been fantastic, and we have a ton of great family memories of Disney vacations. But when I hear things like, "We're going to charge for parking at our resorts now, because that brings us in line with the rest of the industry", well, my eyebrows go up. Because I just don't see any reason for that other than to increase profits. And it seems petty. Especially when they're already making millions is straight up revenue.

We are taking a break from Disney ourselves. But it's not a dissatisfaction thing. It's just that we want to do other things, and the money only goes so far. We have a lot of trips planned over the next 18 months, and none of them include Disney. I think that by the time we make it back, Toy Story Land and Star Wars Land will both be open. The Guardians ride might even be open. Who knows about the Tron Light Cycle coaster. I will miss going every year, but look forward to all the new stuff the next time we do go back.

I believe that there is room on Intercot for all opinions - positive and negative. If someone is searching for all positive, all the time it can be found on the Disney Parks Blogs or the Mom's Panel. In fact, I get suspicious when people's comments skew hard to either side. I filter what is being said and take what I need to formulate my own idea.

I personally appreciate everyone's opinion whether I agree with them or not. If someone is passionately critical of the direction Disney is taking, that doesn't bother me at all as long as their criticism is respectful of the other side. If someone loves Disney and believes that the company can do no wrong- super - but they need to be just as respectful in their response.

If everyone had the same opinion, this would be a very boring place indeed.

cer;2513224 wrote: ... If someone is searching for all positive, all the time it can be found on the Disney Parks Blogs or the Mom's Panel.

Lol!

I really enjoy the negative aspects. It prepares me for things that may not be so magical during my trip. I do much better when I know things are coming that I won't like.
People don't value the same things, so not everyone will look at it in the same light. I know people who LOVE going to the beach. They prefer to hit the beach instead of Disney. Obviously for you, that is not the case. I don't like going to the beach either, but that is what makes them happy.
For some Disney fans, the things they thought brought value to their money have been taken away - old rides, perks at the hotels, customer service in the parks, whatever it may be. It is ok for them to be negative, because Disney needs to see what some of their fan base feels is important. If management doesn't know there is a problem, they can't fix it.
I have always loved the experience also. I don't go to other amusement parks. During my last trip to Disney World, there were so many construction boards up that I didn't feel immersed in anything. Then they sent me through a backstage area that wasn't themed at all. You could see the backs of all the buildings with all the daily operation stuff on both sides of the walk. That really ruined the mood. It really upset me and made me think it was not worth the time, money or effort needed to make a trip there. It has been three years, so I am hoping things are better now. If not, cruising is on par with my expectations of what a vacation should be. In fact, we're having a family reunion Alaskan cruise when my son graduates even if Disney World is everything we dreamed it would be.
I have a friend who thinks Six Flags is the greatest. He prefers it to Disney. Something about it makes him enjoy it more and think his money is better spent there. I don't understand it. it just shows that Disney doesn't cater to everyone's biggest desires, even if it caters to ours.
Sure, maybe some have lost the magic, but maybe the part they thought was magical has been taken away or never even existed to begin with.

As I read through these posts, all with some valid points, it occurred to me that Disney provides the atmosphere for magic to happen. When it happens, it's because I'm choosing to see the magic there. Maybe I have a Pollyanna attitude, but I love going to Disney. Yes, there are things that I'm not fond of or changes that have been made that aren't my favorite but in the end, there is a magic there that I have not found anywhere else. We started going to Disneyland in 1958 and Disneyworld in 1980, so we have seen A LOT of changes, in my opinion, but the heart of Disney hasn't changed. It's my happy place, a place I can go and not worry about real life for just a short time. A place I can be a princess or a pirate. Travel to the moon or go back in history. Watch fireworks that are second to none every single night and remember the fireworks and innocence of childhood. I've found that the negative comments are really from just a few people for the most part and I just choose to disagree with them. There is nothing they can say that will change the way I feel about Disney. If they find pleasure somewhere else, I'm glad for them. After reading a post that I feel could cause me stress, I can close my eyes and imagine I'm sitting on a bench on Main Street listening to the music and I'm good.

Cinderelley;2513248 wrote:
I have a friend who thinks Six Flags is the greatest.

That's a sign of mental illness.

Negativity comes from both comparisons, and expectations that Disney has set through precedence, reputation, propaganda and cost. So expectations are high, and when you fail or falter, it elicits wrath. I don't care about comparing it to Six Flags. Yeah, Six Flags is junk and Disney is way better. Still doesn't mean Disney doesn't have significant issues. I expect the best, when you describe yourself as the best. On top of that, difference of opinions are now deemed to be "negative." Not believing everything is great, and discussing issues isn't being "negative" its authentic.

Besides if we all agreed, and blew sunshine and butterflies, what fun would that be to discuss?

And since clearly everyone is from the Hersey area, can I get a case of fresh hersey almond bars?

Disney made me this way. lol

I have been going to WDW since I was a little kid. My first trip was summer of 1973. So I have basically been going since the beginning of WDW. I have seen a ton of changes including rides and perks. Some were good changes, some were great and some make me want to put my head through a wall. The past few years it has been more of the latter.

I can give you an example of good vs. bad. In the early years, you had to buy a ticket book and you gave the cast member at the gate to the ride a ticket to enter (this is where the term "E-ticket" was derived that you still to this day see referenced because some rides were considered premium rides and required an "E-ticket".) They finally did away with that system and went to entrance fees deleting need for ticket books. That was a good change, well received and I would doubt you could find many complaints. Now here we find ourselves with the FP+ system where you have to plan almost every detail months in advance. It is cumbersome, introduces stress into your vacation and is just an all around time wasting, aggravating experience. You can find plenty of complaints about this new system but yet Disney ignores it because it helps them increase profit. This is where my negativity comes into play. For decades WDW was all about the guest experience, how they could make it more enjoyable, less stressful and there was an emphasis on trying to achieve perfection (and they were on top of it.) However, now it is all about how they can squeeze every penny they can out of the guests, cut costs and increase profit. They have slipped into the corporate machine world and everyone knows that the corporate machine keeps focusing on profit until finally one day it all comes apart at the seams. That is where a lot of my frustration comes from because I can see the train wreck coming.

I think is good to have discussions of both sides. There are things I have tried or looked for that I had found about here at intercot from people discussing things they liked and I enjoyed them as well. There have been some things people were ranting and raving over that after I experienced it myself I was like mehh, I don't see what the big deal is all about. Of course, there have been things here lately that some people just brushed off as change that others were infuriated about and when I experienced it myself, smoke came out of my ears.

As for Six Flags, there is one thing they do pretty well and that is roller coasters. Outside of that, their parks aren't anything to write home about. My biggest gripe about the one in Atlanta is it isn't expensive enough to keep the low life and thugs out so the crowd there is about as disrespectful as it can be and Six Flags allows them to run amuck cutting in lines and pretty much doing what they please. I haven't been in several years because it was so bad the last time. I really don't see how anybody could possibly think Six Flags is a better experience than WDW in any way other than if all you want to do is ride roller coasters over and over.

NO, I get it....and I understand the process and the reason for the forums. I too want to know if something isn't good, or not worth my time. But What I was trying to highlight was not the constructive criticism, or the comparisons of old to new. It was some of the posts that are just, in my opinion, down right nasty. I guess it is my vision of the house of mouse through rose colored glasses.

Again, I too have some really bad experiences that I can share. I guess I am the type of person that just appreciates what INTERCOT does for us and what a great tool it has become for me. When I see a question about something I have had a bad experience with, I want to voice my option as well, but in a way that could be understood and appreciated, rather than bark "not worth the money!" and leave it at that.

I am a High School teacher, and even if your not, I am sure we have all had those people who when given a new idea or concept are the first ones to just comment negatively..."Doin it this way for 30 years, ain't gonna change now!...Tried that before and it was terrible.."...you all know those types. I would rather hear why it failed, and then decide for myself to try it or not. Anyway, I guess I just was loving in fantasyland...But I appreciate all of your responses and for the taking the time to give your explanations.