5 Things The Walt Disney Co's Management Wants You To Know

joonyer;2458011 wrote: I can understand your frustration. And I agree that voting with your wallet the the best way to have your vote heard.

On the other hand, I don't expect much to change. Disney has no reason to care if they are losing long-term repeat guests so long as the parks are at near capacity, rooms are being rented, and DVC units are being sold as fast as they can build them. Until a LOT more people vote NO with their wallets Disney is going to keep on keeping on this same course of action.

We don't have the numbers, but I'd be willing to bet the number of people abstaining from WDW due to FP+ are few and far between. If you don't like WDW with FP+ now then you probably weren't much of a fan before.

NewDVCowner;2457630 wrote: I may be way off on this, but there was an article posted on the LA Times website dated yesterday that quoted Mary Niven, vice president for Disneyland Park saying that Disneyland does not plan to offer the write bands at the park anytime soon. She went onto say that the wrist band wouldn't work for Disneyland's guest demographics and that 'many visitors are local residents who do not stay for long periods at the nearby hotels, where the bands would be used heavily.'

It almost sounds like they feel that they're most used to unlock doors at hotels.

I thought from the beginning it would be a hard sell to use them at Disneyland with pre-booking fastpasses. So many of the guests at Disneyland are locals with annual passes that are certainly not going to be booking rides 60 or even 30 days ahead of time.

Never say never. I'd be willing to bet that your smart phone could easily be a Magic Band alternative for either DL or WDW in the near future.

baldburke;2458075 wrote: We don't have the numbers, but I'd be willing to bet the number of people abstaining from WDW due to FP+ are few and far between. If you don't like WDW with FP+ now then you probably weren't much of a fan before.

I don't know what your definition of "much of a fan" is, but I used to go every year. Now you can put me in your "few and far between" category.

Cinderelley;2458129 wrote: I don't know what your definition of "much of a fan" is, but I used to go every year. Now you can put me in your "few and far between" category.

I think a lot of people are feeling the same as you are....I know we have cut back our visits and the number of days of each visit....and it's only because of the stress of FP+ and all of the pre-planning and frustration that comes along with all of the new rules.

Cinderelley;2458129 wrote: I don't know what your definition of "much of a fan" is, but I used to go every year. Now you can put me in your "few and far between" category.

Ditto. At least once a year from 1988 to 2012. But according to that poster, I wasn't much of a fan.

I think some people suffer from Stockholm Syndrome... and Mickey is the hostage taker.

I agree with the posters above, since FP+ our trips have become a burden with the planning, and also longer lines. Our September trip is going to be our last for a few years at least, and that's saying a lot since we are DVC owners who have been averaging 2 trips a year since our kids were born.

I will admit I love the magic bands, but I'm sick of FP+, and there inability to add substance to the parks. They keep adding meet and greeting, gift shops and restaurants but no attractions. And when they announce an attraction it takes 3+ years to build.

Maybe...... it is not the nature of Disney that is impacting the frequency of "Disney Addicts" trips and their satisfaction with them when they do go. MAYBE the real issue is a large mis-match between the "addicts" level of expectations and Disney's prime business plan.

If I get to eat the finest Kobe beef or Jiro's sushi (look it up) over and over and over at the same restaurant over and over........ pretty soon the meal is not so "special".

When I go to that place... the menu never really changes much on the core offerings. Side dishes get added now and then....... but the main offerings are pretty static. The décor is nice... but the main architectural theme stays the same. They sometimes add new accessories to spiff up the look.

Well......... if I go to Disney World every year (or more)....... it is no longer special either. I've "eaten" Splash Mountain", "ToT", and "Pirates" an awful lot. They still taste good.... but they are "not like I remember".

So maybe... just maybe.... Disney's model of a "regular" or "repeat customer" in their business plan is a family (or couple.... or single) that is going to visit the place maybe every 2 to 4 years. Enough time between visits to make them feel more special. Enough time for a few side dishes and accessories to be there.... and maybe a new main dish if you are lucky.

Maybe those that want to go 2 times a year or every year are NOT their concern in the "big picture". That small fraction of the overall people attending are not enough of a fraction of the overall market Dollars that their wants can drive any high-ticket changes to the parks (like new attractions).

So they focus on the "side dishes" and the "accessories". Low cost, high benefit. Adding Frozen "meet and greet" places is a no-brainer part of the business plan... given that just about every young girl in the world is infatuated with the characters.

When they do decide to "go big"........ it is a long enough development plan that it will cause a big "bump" in attendance from the "addicts". And when the "go big"...... it is pretty spectacular. Like what "Avatar Land" likely will be. A "big project" that will draw a lot of people into the park..... addicts and newbies alike. And therefore pay for the investment.

Online places like Intercot cater a lot to the "Disney Addicts". Newbies find the board and post occasionally asking questions to find "inside information". Some of them eventually get "hooked" and become "addicts" themselves. But I think that the discussion and content that happens in online Disney places are "colored" heavily by the expectations of the "addicts". And those expectations are not likely matching expectations of the average Disney customer. Or maybe the Disney business plan.

Disney "is what it is". If I don't like what is or is not happening.... I won't go. If I have to stay away for 3-5 years to rekindle the magic.... I'll do that. Will they sometimes take out favorite things....... yes. Will they add stuff we are not interested in......... yes. Will it still be a fun place to be once every so often ...... yes.

It is still "special" to me and my family. We don't go every year........ it is more like every 3-4 years. We can't afford going more.... plus it would likely make is LESS special. We might try once a year in the next year or so...... and see what that does to the experience. We'll see. We might not also.

best,

...................john

WiltonJohn;2458214 wrote: So maybe... just maybe.... Disney's model of a "regular" or "repeat customer" in their business plan is a family (or couple.... or single) that is going to visit the place maybe every 2 to 4 years. Enough time between visits to make them feel more special. Enough time for a few side dishes and accessories to be there.... and maybe a new main dish if you are lucky.

Maybe those that want to go 2 times a year or every year are NOT their concern in the "big picture". That small fraction of the overall people attending are not enough of a fraction of the overall market Dollars that their wants can drive any high-ticket changes to the parks (like new attractions).

As much as I would like to agree with your argument here, it seems like this is one of the times that Disney is "speaking from both sides of their (collective) mouth." To say that their business plan is a family that visits every 2 - 4 years, yet build DVC resort after DVC resort on property (which are BIG money facilities) does not fit. Either that, or they fully expect families to make the minimum by-ins to DVC and bank their points to take a longer trip every 2 - 4 years.

In any event, it is seeming more and more like the Walt Disney philosophy --

"We believed in our idea - a family park where parents and children could have fun - together."—Walt Disney

-- has been forgotten in favor of more and more profits for the company and its stockholders. Nowhere in the quote I posted does it say "if they can afford it" or "as long as they can pay the price."

We used to go to the parks 2 or 3 times during our vacations. We would get the park hopper, and go commando style - ropes drop, fast pass runner, EMH, you name it. We would then use the day between to recuperate from the day before.

We now go every day during our vacation, but only for 4-5 hours. We typically use our FP+s, grab a bite, hit a few short waits in between, and then head back to the resort. Honestly, it's been better for myfamily, but it costs more.

If this is becoming a trend, Disney has been able to increase capacity. So let's say 5,000 go use to MK all day (just making up numbers here). That's 5,000 admissions. Now 3,000 go all day, 2,000 for for the AM, and another 2,000 go in the PM. There is never more than 5,000 in the park, but there is now 7,000 admissions. I just wonder if this is happening. If it is, Disney would certainly have the data, just not sharing...

PopPhan;2458223 wrote: As much as I would like to agree with your argument here, it seems like this is one of the times that Disney is "speaking from both sides of their (collective) mouth." To say that their business plan is a family that visits every 2 - 4 years, yet build DVC resort after DVC resort on property (which are BIG money facilities) does not fit. Either that, or they fully expect families to make the minimum by-ins to DVC and bank their points to take a longer trip every 2 - 4 years.

I am a member of a few DVC groups on Facebook and while there is a segment who use their points to go every year or multiple times in a year, there are a lot of people who use their points every other year or even once every 3 years and take a longer trip or larger accommodations to take extended family.

AndrewJackson;2458225 wrote: We used to go to the parks 2 or 3 times during our vacations. We would get the park hopper, and go commando style - ropes drop, fast pass runner, EMH, you name it. We would then use the day between to recuperate from the day before.

We now go every day during our vacation, but only for 4-5 hours. We typically use our FP+s, grab a bite, hit a few short waits in between, and then head back to the resort. Honestly, it's been better for my family, but it costs more.

If this is becoming a trend, Disney has been able to increase capacity. So let's say 5,000 go use to MK all day (just making up numbers here). That's 5,000 admissions. Now 3,000 go all day, 2,000 for for the AM, and another 2,000 go in the PM. There is never more than 5,000 in the park, but there is now 7,000 admissions. I just wonder if this is happening. If it is, Disney would certainly have the data, just not sharing...

I think you are on the right track. As has been stated before, people who are follow boards like Intercot are not the "average" WDW visitor and are the minority. I go once a year and still enjoy it, but I take vacations other places as well. A few years back I went a few times a year and I honestly got a bit burned out. It wasn't anything that Disney did or didn't do, I just needed to do different things.

WiltonJohn;2458214 wrote: Maybe...... it is not the nature of Disney that is impacting the frequency of "Disney Addicts" trips and their satisfaction with them when they do go. MAYBE the real issue is a large mis-match between the "addicts" level of expectations and Disney's prime business plan.

If I get to eat the finest Kobe beef or Jiro's sushi (look it up) over and over and over at the same restaurant over and over........ pretty soon the meal is not so "special".

When I go to that place... the menu never really changes much on the core offerings. Side dishes get added now and then....... but the main offerings are pretty static. The décor is nice... but the main architectural theme stays the same. They sometimes add new accessories to spiff up the look.

Well......... if I go to Disney World every year (or more)....... it is no longer special either. I've "eaten" Splash Mountain", "ToT", and "Pirates" an awful lot. They still taste good.... but they are "not like I remember".

So maybe... just maybe.... Disney's model of a "regular" or "repeat customer" in their business plan is a family (or couple.... or single) that is going to visit the place maybe every 2 to 4 years. Enough time between visits to make them feel more special. Enough time for a few side dishes and accessories to be there.... and maybe a new main dish if you are lucky.

Maybe those that want to go 2 times a year or every year are NOT their concern in the "big picture". That small fraction of the overall people attending are not enough of a fraction of the overall market Dollars that their wants can drive any high-ticket changes to the parks (like new attractions).

So they focus on the "side dishes" and the "accessories". Low cost, high benefit. Adding Frozen "meet and greet" places is a no-brainer part of the business plan... given that just about every young girl in the world is infatuated with the characters.

When they do decide to "go big"........ it is a long enough development plan that it will cause a big "bump" in attendance from the "addicts". And when the "go big"...... it is pretty spectacular. Like what "Avatar Land" likely will be. A "big project" that will draw a lot of people into the park..... addicts and newbies alike. And therefore pay for the investment.

Online places like Intercot cater a lot to the "Disney Addicts". Newbies find the board and post occasionally asking questions to find "inside information". Some of them eventually get "hooked" and become "addicts" themselves. But I think that the discussion and content that happens in online Disney places are "colored" heavily by the expectations of the "addicts". And those expectations are not likely matching expectations of the average Disney customer. Or maybe the Disney business plan.

Disney "is what it is". If I don't like what is or is not happening.... I won't go. If I have to stay away for 3-5 years to rekindle the magic.... I'll do that. Will they sometimes take out favorite things....... yes. Will they add stuff we are not interested in......... yes. Will it still be a fun place to be once every so often ...... yes.

It is still "special" to me and my family. We don't go every year........ it is more like every 3-4 years. We can't afford going more.... plus it would likely make is LESS special. We might try once a year in the next year or so...... and see what that does to the experience. We'll see. We might not also.

best,

...................john

Why are you telling me what I am thinking?
All your psychobabble aside: I love Disney but I hate FP+ more.

WiltonJohn;2458214 wrote: Maybe...... it is not the nature of Disney that is impacting the frequency of "Disney Addicts" trips and their satisfaction with them when they do go. MAYBE the real issue is a large mis-match between the "addicts" level of expectations and Disney's prime business plan.

If I get to eat the finest Kobe beef or Jiro's sushi (look it up) over and over and over at the same restaurant over and over........ pretty soon the meal is not so "special".

When I go to that place... the menu never really changes much on the core offerings. Side dishes get added now and then....... but the main offerings are pretty static. The décor is nice... but the main architectural theme stays the same. They sometimes add new accessories to spiff up the look.

Well......... if I go to Disney World every year (or more)....... it is no longer special either. I've "eaten" Splash Mountain", "ToT", and "Pirates" an awful lot. They still taste good.... but they are "not like I remember".

So maybe... just maybe.... Disney's model of a "regular" or "repeat customer" in their business plan is a family (or couple.... or single) that is going to visit the place maybe every 2 to 4 years. Enough time between visits to make them feel more special. Enough time for a few side dishes and accessories to be there.... and maybe a new main dish if you are lucky.

best,

...................john

I can't really say this argument applies to me. I go to the restaurants I like because of what they offer. I would be more upset if they changed it. I will try new things, but my "special" meals still remain "special".

My kids are the same way. When I ask them what they want to do on our trips, they ask for the same things over and over. I know some people are upset at the increasing cost of tickets without an increase in things to do. I'm not in that boat. I could really take or leave Avatarland. I have to admit I'm pretty excited about a Nintendo area at Universal though.

I definitely don't like the Fastpass +. My planning previously consisted of picking which park on which day and one table service restaurant. I'm on vacation. I don't want to be tied down to a schedule.

RunDMV;2458292 wrote: Why are you telling me what I am thinking?
All your psychobabble aside: I love Disney but I hate FP+ more.

If you say so.......

There can be no doubt that the once in a lifetime, once a generation, or even once a decade, guest is not going to pick up on all of the little problems that many on these forums will. The "once in a lifetimers" don't even know the ways they are being scammed (and it is good for them, psychologically, that they have no idea how they are being played). There are plenty of people out there that "go to Disney" and do just a handful of things, understanding little to nothing about any of it, and have a grand old time. They accept many of the nuisances because they simply don't know any better. They are the least demanding of all guests and probably, by far, the most profitable because they don't have any idea how to work the system to their own benefit.

I think FP+ is worse than what they had before, but that alone would not keep me from visiting.

Cinderelley;2458297 wrote:
I definitely don't like the Fastpass +. My planning previously consisted of picking which park on which day and one table service restaurant. I'm on vacation. I don't want to be tied down to a schedule.

This is the worst part of the current FP+/ADR situation. A "touring plan" while in the park can be fun, but poking around in the ADR site (exactly 6 months out) and watching slots rapidly disappearing is the absolute worst part. Trying to predict the park you might want to be at, despite knowing pretty much nothing about the weather, 60 days out is another terrible exercise. I think the current ADR arrangement makes sense for some of the character meals, but using it for most of the restaurants is just ridiculous overkill. FP+ to arrange that one attraction that you absolutely must do on your trip 60 days out makes sense. Arranging 3 attractions for each day of your trip is overkill that far out, especially when they can only be at 1 park per day.