Early Morning Magic - another upsell

RBrooksC;2483577 wrote: Again, Disney is there TO MAKE A PROFIT. They are NOT taking anything away from you. Just because you don't want to pay for it nobody should be allowed to pay extra for some perceived benefit? Disney isn't here to "Feel the Bern." They are there to make money. You aren't required to pay for those extra bonuses. Nobody is forcing you to pay for the special areas to watch the fireworks. And the fact that you "can't rope drop" isn't something being taken away from you. You can still visit the parks as you normally would. That is more of you not like there are going to be people in the park before you are because you either cannot afford it or don't want to spend the money. If those people think there is benefit in spending the money to be in the park before opening and Disney is allowing them to pay for it on these days, they should be able to do it. Just because you are unwilling or cannot pay for it doesn't mean it should stop those who can or want to.

Actually, I think badkitty, waymickey, TheVB's and others have made some very good points as to how this practice could negatively impact the regular guest experience. You make some good points too, and right now Disney World is not getting my money in any way, shape or form. Not that it will affect their bottom line one bit; I'm sure the shareholders are laughing all the way to the bank.

Ok here's my two cents. This is based off the extra ticket hours and the discussion I've seen in this forum. I see both sides of the argument.

1) It's all about how a person views the Disney Company.
-Some view Disney as this loyal, family-based company
-Some view it as a money machine only out to make profit
-I personally view it as both. I am a product of the 90's and I grew up loving Disney everything.

2) It's all about what a person views as expensive or inexpensive, and if it's worth it.
-Some believe the extra ticket is a lot of money, and some don't.
-Some feel the price you pay is worth it.
-Some feel that the event takes away from the guests who paid for a full price ticket admission.
-Again, I agree with both sides.

I think it is all about perspective and understanding where the other side is coming from. Sure, some wording could be changed, but I think overall people are frustrated with change. Disney families alike came to love Disney because of how well it catered to its guest, and some view the extra ticket option as anti-loyal. No matter the side, let's not forget that Disney brought us all here together

DizneyFreak2002;2483296 wrote: you realize this has nothing to do with Staggs being shown the door by the Board right? That the penny pinching actually started with Staggs himself when Eisner made him head of the Strategic Planning division? Yep... Staggs himself started the cutting and the penny pinching and the downward trend of quality in WDW... Yes, it is a good thing he is gone...

Completely disagree with everything you have to say here. Staggs was the reason we didn't the cheap version if the fantasyland expansion. On a much smaller scale Staggs fought to keep company cars for higher level execs. Staggs was not afraid to spend money and helped with the expansions we are seeing today with Fantasyland and Avatar coming to DAK.

With him gone you are going to see the belt get tighter as the new guys are all about cost cutting.

RBrooksC;2483577 wrote: Again, Disney is there TO MAKE A PROFIT. They are NOT taking anything away from you.

If you could previously do something that you no longer can, they are taking away something. Letting people into one section of the park before anyone else, who will still be there when you get in (when they would not have been before), is most definitely going to impact the value compared to what it previously was. This is not that difficult to understand. Nobody is saying Disney does not have the right to do it, but pretending that these changes do not have any impact is absurd.

No, sorry that is not correct. You can still enter the park at 9 AM at the time you normally did. Disney is NOT taking that option away from you. It is also not lessening the value. You can chose to go to another park that day. It is not that difficult to understand. If you want, you can choose the pay the fee and get into the park early. If not, go when it opens.

What I think is funny is nobody EVER say anything about the Halloween Party or Christmas Party which is a hard ticket event that closes the park early for those select few who purchase a party ticket. When I went a few years ago and had to leave the MK at 7 PM I didn't grab a tissue and cry because those who bought the tickets were preventing me from enjoying the park until 11 PM or whatever. I went and did something else. Everybody needs to stop belly aching about it.

RBrooksC;2483636 wrote: No, sorry that is not correct.

diminish |dəˈminiSH|
verb
make or become less

You can still enter the park at 9 AM at the time you normally did.

Yes, but the value of doing so is diminished. See the definition above.

Disney is NOT taking that option away from you.

True.

It is also not lessening the value.

Enlighten me how entering a part of the park at rope drop that already has people in line maintains the same value of experience as having nobody in the queue at all. I'm not following the logic, but would really love to understand how this is true. Please help me.

You can chose to go to another park that day.

Indeed. However, that says nothing about the value of the chosen experience. Along with that line of thinking, referring anybody to any of the other parks at WDW is already a diminished experience compared to MK. No other park there compares in the value of the offerings and a couple, Epcot & DHS, are very diminished compared to themselves in recent history.

It is not that difficult to understand.

I thought so, but it appears to be otherwise.

If you want, you can choose the pay the fee and get into the park early. If not, go when it opens.

This has always been true. I don't think anybody was arguing whether the sun was going to rise tomorrow or not, but stating the fact that the value of arriving at rope drop is diminished when anybody else is already queued up for attractions. You don't have to agree that it represents a meaningful loss of value to you, but it remains one nonetheless.

What I think is funny is nobody EVER say anything about the Halloween Party or Christmas Party which is a hard ticket event that closes the park early for those select few who purchase a party ticket.

Untrue. Lots of people did complain about it. Also, for recent history, find out what people thought when hard ticketed Halloween events arrived at Disneyland. If you think they were thrilled, you would be mistaken.

When I went a few years ago and had to leave the MK at 7 PM I didn't grab a tissue and cry because those who bought the tickets were preventing me from enjoying the park until 11 PM or whatever. I went and did something else. Everybody needs to stop belly aching about it.

This is a mindset I simply do not understand. If you are not happy about everything, then you must be grabbing tissues, crying, and having bellyaches.

Tekneek;2483630 wrote: If you could previously do something that you no longer can, they are taking away something. Letting people into one section of the park before anyone else, who will still be there when you get in (when they would not have been before), is most definitely going to impact the value compared to what it previously was. This is not that difficult to understand. Nobody is saying Disney does not have the right to do it, but pretending that these changes do not have any impact is absurd.

Exactly this. It's like when WDW started selling tickets for the fireworks dessert party at Tomorrowland Terrace. Before that you could catch a little magic as part of your admission by snagging a table or a standing spot right under where Tink flew over. Then they decided to capitalize on it. I guess if a person had never been to Disney World before and didn't know any different it wouldn't be a big deal. But it was probably one of the things that started souring me on the direction Disney was going with all the ticketed events.

DonaldDuck1117;2483623 wrote: Completely disagree with everything you have to say here. Staggs was the reason we didn't the cheap version if the fantasyland expansion. On a much smaller scale Staggs fought to keep company cars for higher level execs. Staggs was not afraid to spend money and helped with the expansions we are seeing today with Fantasyland and Avatar coming to DAK.

With him gone you are going to see the belt get tighter as the new guys are all about cost cutting.

It's cute you defend Staggs, but you are 100% wrong on everything... Staggs, while getting rid of the princess meet and greets, didn't do anything special with Fantasyland... original plan, before Rasulo announced the trash he announced, actually had the 7D mine train in it... And a longer, better E ticket version... So while Staggs may have replaced the meet and greets with a ride, the ride wasn't designed cause of him.. It was already designed... And longer... And better... The C ticket ride you now have is because of Staggs and his cost cutting, penny pinching ways...

Avatarland? No not Staggs, sorry... All Bob Iger... All Bob Iger and his knee jerk reaction to Universal blowing it out of the water with Potter... Nothing to do with Staggs at all... Oh and Avatarland will look beautiful not because of Staggs, but because fo Imagineering actually being allowed to do the job they do because of James Cameron holding Disney executives to the fire... Not because of Staggs being some creative genius..

Seriously, please research Staggs role with Strategic Planning... But yea, it is cute you actually think he was some sort of savior... He is part of the problem.. And the board saw it... Thankfully...

Tekneek;2483630 wrote: If you could previously do something that you no longer can, they are taking away something. Letting people into one section of the park before anyone else, who will still be there when you get in (when they would not have been before), is most definitely going to impact the value compared to what it previously was. This is not that difficult to understand. Nobody is saying Disney does not have the right to do it, but pretending that these changes do not have any impact is absurd.

And let us not forget, as a regular paying customer, I was able to stay in and enjoy the park from opening at 9:00 AM to closing at 12:00 AM, 1:00 AM, 2:00 AM... Now, staying late has been taken away from me unless I pay the ransom...

But Disney is a business, blah blah blah... yada yada yada...

RBrooksC;2483636 wrote: Everybody needs to stop belly aching about it.

What I think is funny is, again, you missed the point. And I fail to understand why my opinion is considered "belly aching"? You are entitled to your opinion and I'm not attacking your view. I'm just pointing out where we disagree. Last I checked, we are still allowed to express our displeasure in something at Disney.

RBrooksC;2483636 wrote:
What I think is funny is nobody EVER say anything about the Halloween Party or Christmas Party which is a hard ticket event that closes the park early for those select few who purchase a party ticket. When I went a few years ago and had to leave the MK at 7 PM I didn't grab a tissue and cry because those who bought the tickets were preventing me from enjoying the park until 11 PM or whatever. I went and did something else. Everybody needs to stop belly aching about it.

People absolutely said the same things about the parties. And, I'm failing to see why you feel the need to be derisive to those who disagree with you. If someone took your flexibility and positive attitude and said you were just "blinded by pixie dust" I think you'd agree that would be uncalled for. But, you're turning around and doing the same thing. Just because people have spoken up here to say they feel this diminishes the value for THEM, does not justify your condescending response. The reverse is also true, you feel this doesn't impact YOUR value at all and it would be ridiculous for someone to tell you you're wrong. When exactly is everyone going to come to the understanding that no one can dictate someone else's perception of value, especially when it's peppered with the unfortunate comments you have added?

Ok, and now my take on he situation...(I know everyone has been waiting with bated breath).
1. I still love Disney
2. I still think there are some very good people working for Disney who don't like the changes.
3. That being said, they are now trying to solve a problem that was brought about by lack of vision with polices that show a remarkable lack of vision.
4. All the upcharges (and to a lessor degree even the huge expansion plans) make the company look desperate. If you are trying to look like an industry leader, desperation is not good.
5. The only thing that will solve the problem is what probably can't happen in the modern corporate world...There needs to be very long term vision and people in places of power that will not only be there to see it though, but have the power to see that it is done right.
6 No one cares what I think, but short term solutions can kill any company...even a giant.
7. We will see in three years if its going to work...

RBrooksC;2483636 wrote: No, sorry that is not correct. You can still enter the park at 9 AM at the time you normally did. Disney is NOT taking that option away from you. It is also not lessening the value. You can chose to go to another park that day. It is not that difficult to understand. If you want, you can choose the pay the fee and get into the park early. If not, go when it opens.

What I think is funny is nobody EVER say anything about the Halloween Party or Christmas Party which is a hard ticket event that closes the park early for those select few who purchase a party ticket. When I went a few years ago and had to leave the MK at 7 PM I didn't grab a tissue and cry because those who bought the tickets were preventing me from enjoying the park until 11 PM or whatever. I went and did something else. Everybody needs to stop belly aching about it.

You are still missing the point. They are in fact taking something away from us that hit rope drop. As has been mentioned, people who pay for the early entry are already in the park and in line when the park actually officially opens. That has a negative impact on the value of my already overpriced regular entry ticket. Then you have the after hours events where normally we would have another 3 hours of park time but it is closing early for no reason other than to be able to sell hard tickets and grab some more money. That is completely different than the special Halloween and Christmas hard ticket events. They are something special with real value....special fireworks, special parades, free drinks and treats, special character meets with them dressed in holiday attire, etc. You can't even come close to finding an angle to compare these new hard ticket events to the holiday events.

Tekneek;2483638 wrote: diminish |dəˈminiSH|
verb
make or become less

Yes, but the value of doing so is diminished. See the definition above.

True.

Enlighten me how entering a part of the park at rope drop that already has people in line maintains the same value of experience as having nobody in the queue at all. I'm not following the logic, but would really love to understand how this is true. Please help me.

Indeed. However, that says nothing about the value of the chosen experience. Along with that line of thinking, referring anybody to any of the other parks at WDW is already a diminished experience compared to MK. No other park there compares in the value of the offerings and a couple, Epcot & DHS, are very diminished compared to themselves in recent history.

I thought so, but it appears to be otherwise.

This has always been true. I don't think anybody was arguing whether the sun was going to rise tomorrow or not, but stating the fact that the value of arriving at rope drop is diminished when anybody else is already queued up for attractions. You don't have to agree that it represents a meaningful loss of value to you, but it remains one nonetheless.

Untrue. Lots of people did complain about it. Also, for recent history, find out what people thought when hard ticketed Halloween events arrived at Disneyland. If you think they were thrilled, you would be mistaken.

This is a mindset I simply do not understand. If you are not happy about everything, then you must be grabbing tissues, crying, and having bellyaches.

^^Exactly!

I will throw something out there for those that keep saying they are a company trying to make profits, blah, blah, blah. Where does it stop? At some point even the ones saying stop crying about it will have their toes stepped on too (a few already have recently). I don't like the direction things are going with all the money grabs but I could go and pay $5000 a day if I wanted but the reason I got to where I am is because I am smart with my money and my business. If I don't perceive something as a good value, I have something to say about it and I take my business elsewhere......which I have done.

I got something from WDW the other day that I have never seen before. A last minute promo pin code good for trips in the next month or two. I forget the exact dates because I have absolutely zero interest in going right now.....I haven't gotten over the frustration from the November trip yet. Anyway, the reason I mention this is because this seems to indicate they are either having a lot of cancellations or aren't reaching the occupancy levels anymore and are doing last minute promos to try to fill them in.

[QUOTE=

I got something from WDW the other day that I have never seen before. A last minute promo pin code good for trips in the next month or two. I forget the exact dates because I have absolutely zero interest in going right now.....I haven't gotten over the frustration from the November trip yet. Anyway, the reason I mention this is because this seems to indicate they are either having a lot of cancellations or aren't reaching the occupancy levels anymore and are doing last minute promos to try to fill them in.

This is exactly what I'm talking about. The upcharges combined with the sudden "deals" to fill rooms ad the hubbub of what I call "catch up construction" makes it appear that Disney is flailing about with no clear plan or direction.

1DisneyNut;2483686 wrote:
I got something from WDW the other day that I have never seen before. A last minute promo pin code good for trips in the next month or two. I forget the exact dates because I have absolutely zero interest in going right now.....

We received something as well. Years ago, it was a special thing to get one of these offers. For a while now, we have been receiving them with increasing frequency. When I come here, I read that Disney is doing extremely well at the parks and the hotels. What I cannot figure out is why a business presumably doing better than ever before is routinely hitting me with more 'incentives' (not that any of them have been good enough to close the deal) than ever before to come back.