Early Morning Magic - another upsell

We would not likely do either the morning up-sell or the evening hard ticket event. I don't think we would find it worth the money, although I don't have an issue with what they're charging.

However, it is a valid point that if a park closes early for a hard ticket event, it does impact your plans if you typically stay late in the parks. You're getting a shorter day for your ticket price.

Now, I have to qualify this by saying that we do 10 day stays and it's pretty easy for us to choose another park that's open later for any particular day. We also stay on property, so we can take advantage of any EMH that are available.

But, on a shorter stay for someone staying off property, this could have a significant impact. Especially if the events are frequent. I don't think it's reasonable to just say "Get over it" or accuse someone of having a fairness tantrum. If a change significantly impacts their vacation style, then they have the right to evaluate whether it diminishes the value for them.

WiltonJohn;2482625 wrote: Do folks get this upset when other businesses (you know ... those places that are run intending to make money) raise their prices and change their offerings?

Depends on what it is, but you bet they do. Check out what people think of DirecTV, Dish, Comcast, etc, when the inevitable price increases (often including the migration of channels from lower packages or creation of newer add-on packages, equipment requirements, etc) and service changes come. Pretty much anytime the perceived value of anything declines, people are going to be upset about it. It certainly doesn't bother me whether people are upset with it or not. I don't agree with the claims that Disney is still a great value, mostly because I don't see the comparisons provided to be relevant, but I always read them to see if I can be convinced. I would not tell them they are not allowed to try, but some people here get really upset that anybody might voice a negative view of Disney at all (for some reason).

Ultimately, this is about the perceived value of the ticket. While there must be many out there who think Disney could charge 200x more and still be a value, there are quite obviously people who do not agree. If you consider the current prices to be an acceptable value, you have to consider that anytime they reduce the hours that will reduce the value of your ticket (even if you still find that reduced value to be good for you). If you feel that the on-property premium (seems there most definitely is a premium paid to be on-property compared to similar accomodations off-site) is worth it because of EMH, then any tinkering they do to that (such as letting outside people buy their way into it) reduces the value of it. Whether or not that diminished value still is worth the time and money for you as an individual is up to you, but there is no question that the value is diminished.

Yet, the parks remain as crowded as ever.
I've said this before, people are voting with their wallets, and Disney is winning the election.

Those of us who disagree aren't having much effect on their bottom line.

RBrooksC;2482537 wrote: Again, like I have said elsewhere, so what? So what if they charge for this event or, for that matter, the evening event? As of right now, NOTHING is being taken away from the guest. All they did is add a hard ticketed event to their scheduled day. If you want to pay for it, do so. If the Cost/Benefit Analysis shows to you not to be worth it, then don't. It's rather easy. If somebody wants to pay to get in early or stay late, that's fine.

But they did take away from the guest. The days these events are going on resort and general public can not go in early. Less EMH for resort guests. Possibly less hours for the general guest. Hard ticket night events means less EMEH and earlier closing times for the regular guest. It takes away from the amount of time my $125 and up admission is good for. Regular admission hours are shrinking and prices have gone up. It does affect the guest.

WiltonJohn;2482625 wrote: Do folks get this upset when other businesses (you know ... those places that are run intending to make money) raise their prices and change their offerings?

Disney is not HIDING these changes. They are right up-front about it.

So... you "pay to play" or you don't. If you don't like it.... don't go. Seems simple.

best,

.............john

Coming from the guy that has two threads lately complaining about cuts/changes that affected DVC. I had took the high road and wasn't going to go there and even stayed out of your threads but since you like to follow up my posts with such comments......there you go.

As for the question about people getting this upset when other businesses change offerings or raise prices, the answer is a resounding yes. Pretty much for everything. Us Corvette guys have been pretty bent out of shape with Chevrolet the past few years. They sold out and started offering options on our Z06's that had never, NEVER been on a Z06 before.....Targa tops, convertible, automatic, etc. The Z06 has always been and should be only a race ready, light weight, high horsepower, go fast machine....but no, now they are catering to the guys that can't even check the oil just so they can say they have a Z06......even though they have no idea what it is or represents.

1DisneyNut;2482767 wrote: Coming from the guy that has two threads lately complaining about cuts/changes that affected DVC. I had took the high road and wasn't going to go there and even stayed out of your threads but since you like to follow up my posts with such comments......there you go.

As for the question about people getting this upset when other businesses change offerings or raise prices, the answer is a resounding yes. Pretty much for everything. Us Corvette guys have been pretty bent out of shape with Chevrolet the past few years. They sold out and started offering options on our Z06's that had never, NEVER been on a Z06 before.....Targa tops, convertible, automatic, etc. The Z06 has always been and should be only a race ready, light weight, high horsepower, go fast machine....but no, now they are catering to the guys that can't even check the oil just so they can say they have a Z06......even though they have no idea what it is or represents.

I think you may be getting two different Johns mixed up.

Anyway, I agree with your thoughts. I cannot believe the mentality that just because everyone else does it, we should be okay with it. Isn't that what our parents, teachers, etc... spent countless times telling us not to do? Seriously, for years Disney has given us the impression that they are a leader, that they hold themselves to a higher standard, that they are a different company.

Their recent actions are most certainly in-line with other businesses - it would be hard to argue against that. Where much of the frustration comes in is that their higher standard seems to be moving toward just standard. With the now standard service, the cumulative price of that vacation continues to skyrocket.

I still think that the policy of reducing the experience or expected standards for their most loyal repeat customers will eventually hurt them in the long run. Although I have only a few data points, everyone I know (even loyal Disney people like us) who have experienced both Universal and Disney lately are tending to plan more Universal and less Disney for upcoming trips. If things continue, I could see the younger generation not growing up with that Disney loyalty that was born from the higher standard that Disney set.

On a side note, I completely agree about the Corvette and definitely see the analogy. Unfortunately, if I keep going to Disney, I will never have any hope of owning one (if I do, it certainly will not be an automatic with Targa Tops).

Park Hopper;2482797 wrote: I think you may be getting two different Johns mixed up.

Anyway, I agree with your thoughts. I cannot believe the mentality that just because everyone else does it, we should be okay with it. Isn't that what our parents, teachers, etc... spent countless times telling us not to do? Seriously, for years Disney has given us the impression that they are a leader, that they hold themselves to a higher standard, that they are a different company.

Their recent actions are most certainly in-line with other businesses - it would be hard to argue against that. Where much of the frustration comes in is that their higher standard seems to be moving toward just standard. With the now standard service, the cumulative price of that vacation continues to skyrocket.

I still think that the policy of reducing the experience or expected standards for their most loyal repeat customers will eventually hurt them in the long run. Although I have only a few data points, everyone I know (even loyal Disney people like us) who have experienced both Universal and Disney lately are tending to plan more Universal and less Disney for upcoming trips. If things continue, I could see the younger generation not growing up with that Disney loyalty that was born from the higher standard that Disney set.

On a side note, I completely agree about the Corvette and definitely see the analogy. Unfortunately, if I keep going to Disney, I will never have any hope of owning one (if I do, it certainly will not be an automatic with Targa Tops).

Yes. This. Exactly. It is in no way "disloyal" to hold Disney to a standard that they, themselves, set decades ago. It is what made them the giant that they are now, and short sightedness will only lead to ruin. By the way I don't think it is the whole company. I think there are many people (some in management, and some I have actually spoken to) that really want to improve the situation and hear the voices of the guests. The problem is that certain people in charge have convinced certain other people n charge that due to recent financial setbacks that the sky is falling. Until they can get out of "panic-mode" expect more of the same.

My point is , if you don't like it, don't go. If you don't like , XXX , don't buy. Simple.

If you want to get the company to make changes, send communications to THEM.

best,

...............john

WiltonJohn;2482819 wrote: My point is , if you don't like it, don't go. If you don't like , XXX , don't buy. Simple.

If you want to get the company to make changes, send communications to THEM.

best,

...............john

I don't like it and have curtailed my visits from 3 a year to 1 in 2 years and don't have one planned now.

I did email them and received a reply.

However, I checked to be sure I wasn't confused and sure enough, this is a DISCUSSION forum. The purpose of these types of sites is to discuss things and that includes things we don't like. I could say just the opposite to you and it would hold just as much merit.......If you like it, go. If you like XX, buy it. If you think the company is doing great and doesn't need to make changes, send communications to THEM.

Now, see how it sounds just as silly that way as it does the other?

Why did you have posts here recently complaining about the DVC changes? Why didn't you just send communications to THEM?

Should we just come here and say "Hello" everyday and leave it at that instead of trying to have a discussion?

This is what happens when price cutters and penny pinchers get into control. And a lot of you wanted Staggs gone. Welcome to the new normal. With ESPN continuing to struggle, and Shanghi eating up its budget expect more of these pay for experiences. When one part of a company is losing money you tighten the belt in other places. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if Disney eventually moves Fastpass to a pay service.

I don't have a problem with the early morning or late nights. I won't be purchasing them but if others what to spend their money on them more power to them.

DonaldDuck1117;2483241 wrote: This is what happens when price cutters and penny pinchers get into control. And a lot of you wanted Staggs gone. Welcome to the new normal. With ESPN continuing to struggle, and Shanghi eating up its budget expect more of these pay for experiences. When one part of a company is losing money you tighten the belt in other places. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if Disney eventually moves Fastpass to a pay service.

I don't have a problem with the early morning or late nights. I won't be purchasing them but if others what to spend their money on them more power to them.

you realize this has nothing to do with Staggs being shown the door by the Board right? That the penny pinching actually started with Staggs himself when Eisner made him head of the Strategic Planning division? Yep... Staggs himself started the cutting and the penny pinching and the downward trend of quality in WDW... Yes, it is a good thing he is gone...

WiltonJohn;2482819 wrote: My point is , if you don't like it, don't go. If you don't like , XXX , don't buy. Simple.

If you want to get the company to make changes, send communications to THEM.

best,

...............john

I did contact Disney and told them why we canceled our 2016 trip, because of the price increase and add ons, I was told by a CM that Disney will keep raising prices until people push back.

Current management refuses to look past the current earnings report, long term sustainability is no longer important to them.

Speedy1998;2481337 wrote: They don't charge to use the restroom yet :paranoid:

As someone who lived through the "pay toilet" era, don't give them any ideas!

RBrooksC;2482537 wrote: Again, like I have said elsewhere, so what? So what if they charge for this event or, for that matter, the evening event? As of right now, NOTHING is being taken away from the guest. All they did is add a hard ticketed event to their scheduled day. If you want to pay for it, do so. If the Cost/Benefit Analysis shows to you not to be worth it, then don't. It's rather easy. If somebody wants to pay to get in early or stay late, that's fine.

But they are "taking" something away. If the early morning event is on the only day you can go to MK, they are "taking away" your ability to rope drop Fantasyland without full queues. If the event is offered frequently, the rope drop options are limited.

Again, Disney is there TO MAKE A PROFIT. They are NOT taking anything away from you. Just because you don't want to pay for it nobody should be allowed to pay extra for some perceived benefit? Disney isn't here to "Feel the Bern." They are there to make money. You aren't required to pay for those extra bonuses. Nobody is forcing you to pay for the special areas to watch the fireworks. And the fact that you "can't rope drop" isn't something being taken away from you. You can still visit the parks as you normally would. That is more of you not like there are going to be people in the park before you are because you either cannot afford it or don't want to spend the money. If those people think there is benefit in spending the money to be in the park before opening and Disney is allowing them to pay for it on these days, they should be able to do it. Just because you are unwilling or cannot pay for it doesn't mean it should stop those who can or want to.