Frozen Ever After

DizneyFreak2002;2460513 wrote: If it weren't for the events/festivals, Epcot's attendance would be worse... The only thing keeping Epcot at 10 Million are the festivals...

Personally I don't think the festivals are a bad thing and we look forward to them and go every year. I've been going to the festivals since 1999, every year like clock work [many times per festival year]. They were just in their infancy then.
I've watched the festivals grow and draw in more and more people every year. I'll go, grab some food and drink with my best friend and we will sit for ours people watching and talking to various visitors.

We both remember going back when the lines were still "short" and the park wasn't super busy. Now the lines for the booths are long, some almost to the next country. Lots of people having fun and celebrating AND enjoying.

Of the many people I have talked to there over the years, I've heard maybe a handful of negative things.

I know I look forward to samplings during the food and wine. I love going throw and reading and learning about the various flower and garden displays.

My children love both festivals and we use them as a teaching tool.

So all that to say that the festivals, while not for everyone, are not a bad thing. If they are drawing more and more people, it's just good business to continue them.

It is telling that the festivals draw increasing numbers of people, while overall attendance is generally flat year to year. This would seem to indicate that non-festival attendance has been declining.

I don't really have a problem with the festivals. I've been to both and had a good time. I dislike that the festivals have been given priority by management resulting in neglect to other items. Ideally, they could do all of it well and not have to make the tradeoffs they've been making.

Tekneek;2460526 wrote: It is telling that the festivals draw increasing numbers of people, while overall attendance is generally flat year to year. This would seem to indicate that non-festival attendance has been declining.

I don't really have a problem with the festivals. I've been to both and had a good time. I dislike that the festivals have been given priority by management resulting in neglect to other items. Ideally, they could do all of it well and not have to make the tradeoffs they've been making.

I see what you are saying and agree that some other things need added.
It's funny though, while non festival times are slower, it's not dead. I go all year round and anymore it just seems like there is no slow time. Still lots of people.
ETA: Did not mean to push post yet. I remember years ago [early 2000s], Jan/Feb would be so dead that it was like wide open spaces and walk on for everything. Now people everywhere and lots of waits. Not that I mind

Terra;2460529 wrote: I see what you are saying and agree that some other things need added.
It's funny though, while non festival times are slower, it's not dead. I go all year round and anymore it just seems like there is no slow time. Still lots of people.
ETA: Did not mean to push post yet. I remember years ago [early 2000s], Jan/Feb would be so dead that it was like wide open spaces and walk on for everything. Now people everywhere and lots of waits. Not that I mind

That was probably due to 9/11.

I'll meet you at the Rainbow Bridge.

 

Terra;2460529
It's funny though, while non festival times are slower, it's not dead. I go all year round and anymore it just seems like there is no slow time. Still lots of people.
I remember years ago [early 2000s wrote: , Jan/Feb would be so dead that it was like wide open spaces and walk on for everything. Now people everywhere and lots of waits. Not that I mind

As other posters have mentioned..There is less to do now in EPCOT..resulting in longer lines at the attractions that are open.
I do miss the edutainment that was EPCOT. and even though not many here agree with me..I love Ellen's Energy Adventure.. and seriously miss the Living Seas movie..
Horizons..Jeremy Irons version of Spaceship Earth.. Communicore..World of Motion..and Tapestry of Nations parade.

Well, my kids for one LOVE Epcot much more than the other parks. I don't know why, exactly, but they do. They want to spend every day there. They love Spaceship Earth, Test Track, the Seas, Innoventions, World Showcase. They love it all. And, I might actually argue that overall, kids are SMARTER these days compared to 1985. Kids have access to SO much information online that they learn some pretty sophisticated stuff early on. Epcot, while being in sore need of a reboot, is still pretty cool.

I remember taking a very long survey at Epcot about 3 years ago. We had to sit down at a computer and it asked a ton of questions about what we liked and didn't about Epcot, what we thought was okay as is and what was outdated, what types of things we would like to see/experience at Epcot in the future, what was flat out bad about Epcot, etc. I really do think there is a master plan for this park down the pipeline, and we just need to be patient. Epcot was Walt's whole reason for building WDW, so I really hope the company will honor his legacy by keeping Epcot relevant.

Terra;2460520 wrote: Personally I don't think the festivals are a bad thing and we look forward to them and go every year.

Didn't say they are a bad thing... I been to Food and Wine and to Flower and Garden... They are well done festivals... But, if they weren't being held, Epcot's attendance would be horrific...

goofy for pluto;2460587 wrote: As other posters have mentioned..There is less to do now in EPCOT..resulting in longer lines at the attractions that are open.
I do miss the edutainment that was EPCOT. and even though not many here agree with me..I love Ellen's Energy Adventure.. and seriously miss the Living Seas movie..
Horizons..Jeremy Irons version of Spaceship Earth.. Communicore..World of Motion..and Tapestry of Nations parade.

You're not alone. We love Ellen's Energy Adventure as well. My boys are huge Bill Nye fans!
I do miss Jeremy Iron's version of SE. His voice boomed with command!

BrerGnat;2460590 wrote: Well, my kids for one LOVE Epcot much more than the other parks. I don't know why, exactly, but they do. They want to spend every day there. They love Spaceship Earth, Test Track, the Seas, Innoventions, World Showcase. They love it all. And, I might actually argue that overall, kids are SMARTER these days compared to 1985. Kids have access to SO much information online that they learn some pretty sophisticated stuff early on. Epcot, while being in sore need of a reboot, is still pretty cool.

I remember taking a very long survey at Epcot about 3 years ago. We had to sit down at a computer and it asked a ton of questions about what we liked and didn't about Epcot, what we thought was okay as is and what was outdated, what types of things we would like to see/experience at Epcot in the future, what was flat out bad about Epcot, etc. I really do think there is a master plan for this park down the pipeline, and we just need to be patient. Epcot was Walt's whole reason for building WDW, so I really hope the company will honor his legacy by keeping Epcot relevant.

Hey I took that survey too!!
I agree, I do think we have to be patient. And agree, hopefully they keep sight of the original dream overall. Even if it doesn't have every detail in the changes that we would like.

DizneyFreak2002;2460602 wrote: Didn't say they are a bad thing... I been to Food and Wine and to Flower and Garden... They are well done festivals... But, if they weren't being held, Epcot's attendance would be horrific...

That's true, you didn't say it
I never thought about it without the festivals. It would be interesting to see.

DizneyFreak2002;2460602 wrote: Didn't say they are a bad thing... I been to Food and Wine and to Flower and Garden... They are well done festivals... But, if they weren't being held, Epcot's attendance would be horrific...

+100

Exactly. No issue with the festivals. Love em. Keep em. But they are masking what is wrong with the rest of the park by inflating attendance and hiding the fact that at the core, there is a ton of work to be done on the attraction side of things.

While I see your point, I really don't think WDW should start fixing it right now. There is so much construction every where else that it was driving me crazy. The construction walls are very unmagical. I am ok with them doing one park at a time.

Cinderelley;2460640 wrote: While I see your point, I really don't think WDW should start fixing it right now. There is so much construction every where else that it was driving me crazy. The construction walls are very unmagical. I am ok with them doing one park at a time.

Epcot is so big, it wouldn't have much impact. One pavilion at a time would be the way to go. Come up with a new attraction for wonders of life. Get that area up and running, then take something else down. It could be done to minimize guest experience.

Reading through this thread, there is one thing I haven't seen mentioned. Epcot, more than any of the other parks, relies on corporate sponsorship to fund the Future World pavilions and World Showcase attractions. As corporate sponsorships ended, many pavilions were closed or not updated (in the case of Universe of Energy). To reboot Epcot, Disney needs to think outside the box in finding new corporate sponsors. Gone are the days when companies lined up to sponsor any number of things and not just at Disney. Companies have to work harder to form these partnerships.

You just have to look at the Great Movie Ride. That ride gets a sponsor; the ride's beginning and ending gets spruced up and the Hat gets removed. Get a company to throw in some money and things happen.

Hammer;2460695 wrote: Reading through this thread, there is one thing I haven't seen mentioned. Epcot, more than any of the other parks, relies on corporate sponsorship to fund the Future World pavilions and World Showcase attractions. As corporate sponsorships ended, many pavilions were closed or not updated (in the case of Universe of Energy). To reboot Epcot, Disney needs to think outside the box in finding new corporate sponsors. Gone are the days when companies lined up to sponsor any number of things and not just at Disney. Companies have to work harder to form these partnerships.

You just have to look at the Great Movie Ride. That ride gets a sponsor; the ride's beginning and ending gets spruced up and the Hat gets removed. Get a company to throw in some money and things happen.

To be honest, I think Disney needs to quit depending on other companies and do it themselves.

Cinderelley;2460697 wrote: To be honest, I think Disney needs to quit depending on other companies and do it themselves.

With the current massive profitability of the company, it is hard to understand why they are dependant upon corporate sponsorships to keep attractions/pavilions open. Surely they have moved their financial marker far enough that they no longer need be limited by the fickleness of corporate sponsorships. Problem is that Wall Street is accustomed to that money NOT being reinvested into the company and there will be a consequence when/if they revise that. No doubt there are some "investors" and "analysts" that will say the parks are profitable enough without that investment, so ride that wave until it breaks right into the rocky shore.

Tekneek;2460706 wrote: With the current massive profitability of the company, it is hard to understand why they are dependant upon corporate sponsorships to keep attractions/pavilions open. Surely they have moved their financial marker far enough that they no longer need be limited by the fickleness of corporate sponsorships. Problem is that Wall Street is accustomed to that money NOT being reinvested into the company and there will be a consequence when/if they revise that. No doubt there are some "investors" and "analysts" that will say the parks are profitable enough without that investment, so ride that wave until it breaks right into the rocky shore.

This is the reason (the line I put in bold print) why they won't put the money up. They are doing it for Frozen Ever After as they can justify the ROI to Wall Street. Do it for too many things and it will take too much money away from the bottom line.