Is the service REALLY declining? Where's the proof?

Arielfan98;2488248 wrote: I also noticed the food quality go down....the QS restaurants don't serve burgers like they used to.

I'm not sure how to take that. Do you mean that the QS restaurants no longer serve burgers? In which case I would argue that makes the food quality go up. Or do you mean that, of those QS restaurants that DO serve burgers, that the quality of said burgers is much worse than it used to be?

The burgers we had at Liberty Inn were awful. They had a strange taste to them.

azcavalier;2488252 wrote: I'm not sure how to take that. Do you mean that the QS restaurants no longer serve burgers? In which case I would argue that makes the food quality go up. Or do you mean that, of those QS restaurants that DO serve burgers, that the quality of said burgers is much worse than it used to be?

I'm saying the burgers are not as good as they used to be. I remember going to ABC Commissary and the cheeseburgers were delicious. Since 2010ish, the burgers in all QS locations are lacking.

disney daddy;2487849 wrote: Based on your signature, you seem to like neglected theme parks that do not have enough for guests to do. We all must see that the glass is at least half full and that the value is still there or we wouldn't be going so frequently. We need to have our expectations better match what a corporate theme park, in business to make profits, is capable of providing. Not trying to make waves, just being realistic.

I disagree. The Disney corporation set the bar themselves years ago and earned a loyal following. It is that loyalty and reputation that has carried them through recent years, not necessarily because they have maintained or increased the quality of their brand (and yes, they certainly have not increased the value!) They continue to attract new visitors because they have no point of comparison, but to many of the repeat visitors they have lost a bit of the magic. The glass is not half-full anymore to me and this has been reflected in how often I go to Disney parks these days.

Arielfan98;2488262 wrote: I'm saying the burgers are not as good as they used to be. I remember going to ABC Commissary and the cheeseburgers were delicious. Since 2010ish, the burgers in all QS locations are lacking.

Yes, lacking in taste and toppings. :ack:

i'm grumpy;2488323 wrote: Yes, lacking in taste and toppings. :ack:

Even the salad at Backlot Express declined. I went this past January and my whole family got sick from it because the salad dressing had fake garlic in it. Yuck :ack:

Arielfan98;2488383 wrote: Even the salad at Backlot Express declined. I went this past January and my whole family got sick from it because the salad dressing had fake garlic in it. Yuck :ack:

Is garlic so expensive they have use fake? They stopped making the turkey sandwich and I'm not paying $14 for a burger.

MNNHFLTX;2488271 wrote: I disagree. The Disney corporation set the bar themselves years ago and earned a loyal following. It is that loyalty and reputation that has carried them through recent years, not necessarily because they have maintained or increased the quality of their brand (and yes, they certainly have not increased the value!) They continue to attract new visitors because they have no point of comparison, but to many of the repeat visitors they have lost a bit of the magic. The glass is not half-full anymore to me and this has been reflected in how often I go to Disney parks these days.

I am sorry that you feel that way. Still seems that there is a strong loyal following. It's difficult to understand why you don't see that the bar remains extremely high. I think that they most certainly have increased the value of their brand. Evidently not to you, but their brand has continued to increase throughout the years. Sorry if you don't like Star Wars and Frozen, but recently they have increased the value of their brand significantly. That is why demand is so high. I agree with you that they have no point of comparison, but I take that to mean that they have no peers and that seems to contradict your other point about maintaining or increasing the value.

My kids are mid to late teens now. Every year, expecting to hear something different, I am surprised by their desire to want to go back to WDW. We change up our personal itinerary every time we go, which does require some planning, to keep it fresh. Recently, there always seems to be something new in the parks and that is happening because Disney Parks is investing capital in the parks to keep them relevant, fresh and to keep them from having a point of comparison to other theme parks.

WDW is a world class vacation destination, not just a series of theme parks. Maybe you are romanticizing the way things were as things always seem bigger, better, and more exciting when we're younger and first experience them.

Is it ridiculous to wait three hours to visit Anna and Elsa, yes? Is it also crazy to wait five hours to ride Frozen Ever After? Uh huh. But if the demand wasn't there, it wouldn't be happening. So, it looks like more and more people each year think it's worth it.

I can appreciate both sides of a discussion, but I think you're being overcritical. I think my family has a good perspective since we have visited the parks in every decade since the 70s. BTW, in 1978, you had to use tickets to get on rides (A B C D and E). Each ride was a certain ticket, the popular ones being E tickets and the least popular being A tickets. Well guess what, the tickets books sold only had a limited number of E tickets and you'd have to buy more as you desired (granted, there was no admission fee). There were also half the rides, no additional parks, fewer hotels, no extravagant shows, etc. The parks continue to be clean and safe. Where else can you leave a camera bag on a stroller and walk away? There has been a lot of value built in WDW since it opened in 1971. People have been complaining since the first day because it was and continues to be expensive.

My glass remains almost completely full and we'll continue to make the pilgrimage as long as the kids want to and then my wife and I will probably come back without the kids (though not as often). I hope you rediscover the joy of WDW again.

And just to make one quick comment on the burgers and such. Who goes to WDW for fast food and expects it to be fine dining? It's a fast food hamburger.

disney daddy;2488433 wrote: I am sorry that you feel that way. Still seems that there is a strong loyal following. It's difficult to understand why you don't see that the bar remains extremely high. I think that they most certainly have increased the value of their brand. Evidently not to you, but their brand has continued to increase throughout the years. Sorry if you don't like Star Wars and Frozen, but recently they have increased the value of their brand significantly. That is why demand is so high. I agree with you that they have no point of comparison, but I take that to mean that they have no peers and that seems to contradict your other point about maintaining or increasing the value.

My kids are mid to late teens now. Every year, expecting to hear something different, I am surprised by their desire to want to go back to WDW. We change up our personal itinerary every time we go, which does require some planning, to keep it fresh. Recently, there always seems to be something new in the parks and that is happening because Disney Parks is investing capital in the parks to keep them relevant, fresh and to keep them from having a point of comparison to other theme parks.

WDW is a world class vacation destination, not just a series of theme parks. Maybe you are romanticizing the way things were as things always seem bigger, better, and more exciting when we're younger and first experience them.

Is it ridiculous to wait three hours to visit Anna and Elsa, yes? Is it also crazy to wait five hours to ride Frozen Ever After? Uh huh. But if the demand wasn't there, it wouldn't be happening. So, it looks like more and more people each year think it's worth it.

I can appreciate both sides of a discussion, but I think you're being overcritical. I think my family has a good perspective since we have visited the parks in every decade since the 70s. BTW, in 1978, you had to use tickets to get on rides (A B C D and E). Each ride was a certain ticket, the popular ones being E tickets and the least popular being A tickets. Well guess what, the tickets books sold only had a limited number of E tickets and you'd have to buy more as you desired (granted, there was no admission fee). There were also half the rides, no additional parks, fewer hotels, no extravagant shows, etc. The parks continue to be clean and safe. Where else can you leave a camera bag on a stroller and walk away? There has been a lot of value built in WDW since it opened in 1971. People have been complaining since the first day because it was and continues to be expensive.

My glass remains almost completely full and we'll continue to make the pilgrimage as long as the kids want to and then my wife and I will probably come back without the kids (though not as often). I hope you rediscover the joy of WDW again.

And just to make one quick comment on the burgers and such. Who goes to WDW for fast food and expects it to be fine dining? It's a fast food hamburger.

Well I was talking about QS food in general, but their burgers were the first noticed to go downhill. I have gone to Disney many years like yourself and have known "Disney fast food" to be excellent. It is like none other. For a real world comparison, there is a difference between a 5 Guys/ In N' Out Burger to a Mcdonalds or Burger King burger. Disney used to make great cheeseburgers that were very good. Also when I go to 6 Flags or any other amusement park, they offer cheap, overpriced greasy burgers and hotdogs. But at Disney you can go to Columbia Harbour House and get fish or get sushi at Japan in EPCOT or farm to table at The Seasons and it is this sort of high quality QS food I have come to love at Disney, even the burgers. If I want fine dining I certainly do go to the signature restaurants. I'm just trying to state that Disney makes higher quality QS food.

Arielfan98;2488459 wrote: Well I was talking about QS food in general, but their burgers were the first noticed to go downhill. I have gone to Disney many years like yourself and have known "Disney fast food" to be excellent. It is like none other. For a real world comparison, there is a difference between a 5 Guys/ In N' Out Burger to a Mcdonalds or Burger King burger. Disney used to make great cheeseburgers that were very good. Also when I go to 6 Flags or any other amusement park, they offer cheap, overpriced greasy burgers and hotdogs. But at Disney you can go to Columbia Harbour House and get fish or get sushi at Japan in EPCOT or farm to table at The Seasons and it is this sort of high quality QS food I have come to love at Disney, even the burgers. If I want fine dining I certainly do go to the signature restaurants. I'm just trying to state that Disney makes higher quality QS food.

I generally agree that the QS food is of good quality. My point was that if you think about how many burgers WDW serves in a day, it is near impossible to keep everything fresh. Some burgers are going to sit under heat lamps longer than others and some will sit on buns wrapped in foil longer. By comparison, any individual McDonald's or Burger King does remarkably less volume. Burgers in certain parts may be better because of volume, but I don't expect high quality from the QS meals, just adequate enough to keep the family fueled. I do expect high quality food and service from the TS meals and though some are better than others (menu vs. buffet), the TS meals never disappoint.

disney daddy;2488477 wrote: I generally agree that the QS food is of good quality. My point was that if you think about how many burgers WDW serves in a day, it is near impossible to keep everything fresh. Some burgers are going to sit under heat lamps longer than others and some will sit on buns wrapped in foil longer. By comparison, any individual McDonald's or Burger King does remarkably less volume. Burgers in certain parts may be better because of volume, but I don't expect high quality from the QS meals, just adequate enough to keep the family fueled. I do expect high quality food and service from the TS meals and though some are better than others (menu vs. buffet), the TS meals never disappoint.

Actually, what I was getting at was the type of burgers, not how it's prepared. Didn't Disney change their food service company at one point in the 2000s? Thought I read it somewhere....

disney daddy;2488433 wrote: I am sorry that you feel that way. Still seems that there is a strong loyal following. It's difficult to understand why you don't see that the bar remains extremely high. I think that they most certainly have increased the value of their brand. Evidently not to you, but their brand has continued to increase throughout the years. Sorry if you don't like Star Wars and Frozen, but recently they have increased the value of their brand significantly. That is why demand is so high. I agree with you that they have no point of comparison, but I take that to mean that they have no peers and that seems to contradict your other point about maintaining or increasing the value.

Recently, there always seems to be something new in the parks and that is happening because Disney Parks is investing capital in the parks to keep them relevant, fresh and to keep them from having a point of comparison to other theme parks.

WDW is a world class vacation destination, not just a series of theme parks. Maybe you are romanticizing the way things were as things always seem bigger, better, and more exciting when we're younger and first experience them.

I can appreciate both sides of a discussion, but I think you're being overcritical. I think my family has a good perspective since we have visited the parks in every decade since the 70s. BTW, in 1978, you had to use tickets to get on rides (A B C D and E). Each ride was a certain ticket, the popular ones being E tickets and the least popular being A tickets. Well guess what, the tickets books sold only had a limited number of E tickets and you'd have to buy more as you desired (granted, there was no admission fee). There were also half the rides, no additional parks, fewer hotels, no extravagant shows, etc. The parks continue to be clean and safe. Where else can you leave a camera bag on a stroller and walk away? There has been a lot of value built in WDW since it opened in 1971. People have been complaining since the first day because it was and continues to be expensive.

My glass remains almost completely full and we'll continue to make the pilgrimage as long as the kids want to and then my wife and I will probably come back without the kids (though not as often). I hope you rediscover the joy of WDW again.

I can appreciate your point of view, but I'm afraid that I just don't see things the same way. I actually think I have a pretty good perspective on things; my family also first went to WDW in the 70's, when everything was certainly state-of-the-art for theme parks. I also lived in Orlando/Central Florida from 1984-1990 and then again from 1993-2005 and had a Florida Resident Pass most of those years. That's when I came to love Disney World so much (and hence came to be an INTERCOT staff member back in 2001). I still love it, but I don't think all the changes are for good. The technology is still there but the bulk of it is being applied toward the MyMagic+, designed to keep patrons tethered to the parks. New attractions/ideas are often painfully slow to progress and the old attractions are sometimes left to languish.

Yes, I am nostalgic, but not for the attractions as much as the atmosphere. That you would walk to the end of Main Street into Central Plaza, which had a homey feel to it; since the plaza expansion, it just feels like one big parking lot for fireworks viewing. Which I guess makes sense in a way, but I hate it. That's just one example of what I'm talking about. It's why I love Disneyland so much, since it still has that intimate, cozy feel that I miss at Disney World.

I'm not trying to convince you to agree with me, your viewpoint is your own. And I certainly still have a lot of love for the place, but I don't feel compelled to go there like I used to. Which is okay, because there are a lot of great places out in the world to see.

disney daddy;2488433 wrote: I agree with you that they have no point of comparison, but I take that to mean that they have no peers and that seems to contradict your other point about maintaining or increasing the value.

I actually meant that people going for the first time to WDW have no point of comparison, as far as value and experience, since they have never been there before.

Honestly, I think the price is having an affect on people's opinions/perspective. The more people spend on something the more their expectations on how they are to be treated, and the quality, go way up. Disney has done this to themselves. They have raised the prices ever single year to a point where people are dropping thousands on a week there. With that come higher expectations.

So has the service really declined? As the quality of the product really gone down? I don't think so. I just think the expectations have been racheted up over the years due to the price increases. And honestly, I think people have the right to feel that way with the way the prices have gone.

DonaldDuck1117;2488782 wrote: Honestly, I think the price is having an affect on people's opinions/perspective. The more people spend on something the more their expectations on how they are to be treated, and the quality, go way up. Disney has done this to themselves. They have raised the prices ever single year to a point where people are dropping thousands on a week there. With that come higher expectations.

So has the service really declined? As the quality of the product really gone down? I don't think so. I just think the expectations have been racheted up over the years due to the price increases. And honestly, I think people have the right to feel that way with the way the prices have gone.

It's all relative. The average cost for a family of four to go to a prof football game is over $500. The same family of four would pay over $300 to go to a pro baseball game. Sure, you could go to the minors with your family of four for under $100 if you don't plan to get too many snacks. However we're talking Disney here. The Cadillac of theme parks!

My local theme parks, Hershey Park and Great Adventure, are $63 and $54 for regular admission, respectively. A single day at Busch Gardens Tampa is $79. Where a single day at Disney is nearly double Great Adventure at $101.

So back to the original question...which is the best value for your dollar? It's all subjective, right? Personally if I'm going local then I prefer Hershey, but if I'm going on vacation then I prefer Disney. For us it's the best value for our dollar. The price is what it is. We space our Disney vacations out accordingly to fit our budget, but there are other options out there if Disney isn't for you.