Maelstrom Question

Cheshire_Girl;2428935 wrote: Why do they keep taking away my favorite things...
Back back back down the falls I say!

You are not the first to pass this way,
Nor shall you be the last.

:(

Is nothing sacred anymore, lol?

It seems like nothing is safe these days and feels (to me) that on every trip I have to ride or experience something because I never know if it's the last time. Carousel of progress is one but I didn't expect Maelstrom, even after Frozen came out at the box office.

BriarRose0708;2428965 wrote:

It seems like nothing is safe these days and feels (to me) that on every trip I have to ride or experience something because I never know if it's the last time.

So true.

BriarRose0708;2428965 wrote: It seems like nothing is safe these days and feels (to me) that on every trip I have to ride or experience something because I never know if it's the last time.

But isn't that one of the original ideas behind EPCOT? As John mentioned earlier, isn't the idea of a world's fair that there will be constant change in the park, especially on the World Showcase side? Change should be accepted and even embraced at Epcot of all parks.

I'll temper that a bit by saying I don't like The Seas with Nemo and Friends, and I'm not thrilled about a Frozen takeover of Maelstrom. I think it cheapens the experience a bit, as does the current narration and touchscreen experience on Spaceship Earth. I'd go back to the Jeremy Irons narration and the previous descent, but that's simply my preference.

I do like what they've done with Test Track in the last refurb because it actually enhances the vehicle testing theme a bit more than the first iteration did. You're testing the vehicle you designed. I think it's a neat idea and my kids love it every time.

Yes, Epcot needs work. Energy is getting a little long in the tooth, Imagination is a wreck, and Mission:Space isn't as much of a draw as it probably was at one time. The Wonders of Life is wasted space except for the Flower and Garden Festival.

Epcot is still my favorite of the four parks. It's showing its age a bit, but I still love the combination of the different countries and the future(ish) attractions. It's the one place I tell my DW nearly every night I wish I was at.

One positive to replacing Maelstrom with a Frozen ride? They might actually update the movie at the end.

DizHawk;2428977 wrote: But isn't that one of the original ideas behind EPCOT? As John mentioned earlier, isn't the idea of a world's fair that there will be constant change in the park, especially on the World Showcase side? Change should be accepted and even embraced at Epcot of all parks.

I do like what they've done with Test Track in the last refurb because it actually enhances the vehicle testing theme a bit more than the first iteration did. You're testing the vehicle you designed. I think it's a neat idea and my kids love it every time.

One positive to replacing Maelstrom with a Frozen ride? They might actually update the movie at the end.

I hate what they've done with Test Track. It's like they went in without a clear of idea of what to do and just said, "Tron, neon! Okay!" And went with it haphazardly. Other than the "design your car" feature (which to me is a time-waster and skippable), it has almost nothing in keeping with the original concept. I feel they've cheapened the experience and lost a lot of it along the way. But hey, glad someone likes it. And I can see that Future World needs constant updating, so at least they tried.

As far as World Showcase, Disney apparently had complications over the initial design for Maelstrom due to Norway's objections. Disney wanted it all about the trolls. Norway wanted more about Norway. Having heard this, I really wouldn't expect Norway to be entirely on board with a Frozen takeover, but I have no idea how much approval they have over the pavilion anymore, and maybe new people are overseeing that who love Frozen. Or the popularity of Frozen is too big to deny. Who knows.

But I think the idea of World Showcase and what the countries offer is really enough as far as change goes. I disagree that this part of the park should be in constant flux unless it's showcasing new things a country has to offer. That's the spirit of a world's fair, not adding characters to push merchandise (though not like Disney to pass up an opportunity, and they are a business). I get nervous when they start to retool with characters in a place that should be focused on the countries. Not to say that Maelstrom isn't a bit stale. Updating is necessary, and the changes might turn out great.

Maelstrom is very dated in my opinion, and needs some kind of update. Honestly, I would love for them to tear the whole ride out and start from scratch, but I doubt that is happening. Frozen going in wouldn't surprise me and it would breathe some life into the pavilion. However, like I said above I hope they tear it all out and create something new. But, I understand how it works, and we are likely to get frozen characters added but same ride track.

And imagineering doesn't read message boards and go, "hey, that stich ride poster X said is brilliant, lets do that!"

I realize I'm the lone ranger here. But I don't mind it at all. :blush:

To think that fan sites somehow influenced the decision to make over an attraction (Stitch) and not Disney decided they wanted a more family friendly attraction in a portion of the park that wasn't interesting to guests anymore doesn't make sense. Everything at Disney is backed up by in park data and surveys. Was your beer cold enough at Epcot? Did you wait too long at the character meet and greet? Was your bed at your resort too soft? Guests complaining about how scary ExtraTERRORestial Alien Encounter was - yeah, that could influence things (though I thought it was fine the way it was). Disney Imagineers aren't sitting on this or any other site saying - look at those rumors, we better fast track the Stitch attraction! There is ROI, charts , in park guest surveys and bone headed corporate decision making to back everything up.

Might they take the temperature of boards and social media on whether a completed attraction is doing well - sure but deciding whether to build something based on rumor sites talking about it? Most certainly not.

Eric, all you have to do is look at the current state of Epcot. Think about the mentality (don't want to invest in completely new attractions) and you can figure out why this all makes sense.

You can convince yourself that a bunch of Disney sites are pushing the needle to the red - but it's just not the case.

Bottom line is change happens, attractions get stale and people always think they can do better. At least in the case of Epcot, that' only happened once at the Land. And I'm sure there are Kitchen Cabaret fans that would argue me to the death about that. Veggie Fruit, Fruit.... Personally, I don't mind a frozen ride as a NEW attraction. Ain't gonna happen.

Most likely, the current Norway attraction will close, we'll get an overlay with some changes that extend the ride a bit, and us old timers will have to carry on the legacy of what things USED to be like.

Eric J...
--Maybe Olaf narrates instead of Odin.
When your out of ideas..Give them a singing snowman! ..... lol

Putting the Three Caballeros into El Rio de Tiempo didn't "destroy" the ride, and still kept it in its World's-Fair sense of Mexico. The village fiesta, the fireworks, and the Acapulco films were still the same, they just lost a few elements that didn't work, like the annoying vendors and the puppet carousel.

Sorry Eric J but I disagree..3 Caballeros is one of our family's favorite movies..When my son was small we watched it all the time..That being said El Rio del Tiempo was one of our favorite attractions in Epcot and I miss the original version of the ride.

Ah Eric - the chicken or the egg.

Just because on the surface you see some fan site chatter, then someone happens post said chatter doesn't negate the planning that had been done leading up to that nor verify that fan sites had any impact.

We're (the collective we) just aren't THAT influential in the end. I wish we were. Do they take the pulse from time to time - sure, I won't doubt that.

Just because we float a rumor or pick up on one from other sites doesn't mean that the project wasn't already in dev.

If that we really had the kind of influence some think... toad would still be open in wdw, horizons would still be taking people into the future :(, the country bears would have never left Disneyland, wonders of life wouldn't be sitting vacant, the black curtains at the end of spaceship earth would be gone tomorrow :mad:, figment's original imagination ride along with the entire upstairs of the pavilion would be back.

Heck, every episode on the podcast, INTERCOT consulting comes up with a brilliant idea - still waiting on DMOD and Glow With the Show MagicBands.

In the end - if and when it happens, it won't make a difference to 95% of the people who visit. It's the regulars and those who have grown up at the parks who suffer and long for the past. Most people visit WDW once or twice in a lifetime. We are the exception, not the rule.

Disney is playing mostly to the 95% who won't notice change. They'll just see a "new" ride in Norway based on a wildly popular movie. I hope for their sake it has true staying power.

Yeah EricJ I think you have it backwards. These rumors are not just fan imagineering and then DI pops in and says, "hey, lets give them what they want." Rather it is the other way around. DI has these attractions in development, just waiting for the final green light and then something gets leaked.

The reason why there was that joke about "you guys might of hear about some fantasyland expansion" was because the actual plans got leaked somehow and were all over the internet. That's where all the rumors and talk of the very specific attractions came from-we actually had leaked DI plans.

I liked the new Test Track more than I thought I would, although the "design" element is more of a child's toy/time killer since it has no impact on the actual ride experience. I still feel like Maelstrom is a timeless experience and doesn't need a refresh.

However, Future World (read the name again) has regressed significantly over the past decade. Test Track is the one change that was actually positive. We pay a whole lot more to do a whole lot less than we could back in 1990.

The Living Seas was basically empty because it was left to wither away, much like Future World in general. The current marketing of Epcot/Future World sets it up for failure. Edutainment is not dead. Disney/WDI just isn't any good at it these days.

What Tekneek said..... :thumbsup:

John;2429063 wrote:
If that we really had the kind of influence some think... toad would still be open in wdw, horizons would still be taking people into the future :(, the country bears would have never left Disneyland, wonders of life wouldn't be sitting vacant, the black curtains at the end of spaceship earth would be gone tomorrow :mad:, figment's original imagination ride along with the entire upstairs of the pavilion would be back.

Tekneek;2429110 wrote: The Living Seas was basically empty because it was left to wither away, much like Future World in general. The current marketing of Epcot/Future World sets it up for failure. Edutainment is not dead. Disney/WDI just isn't any good at it these days.

Yes, this. I remember when Epcot had I/O and an attraction to explain digital to guests. One of my favorites but apparently not universally. There is so much Disney could educate and entertain us with today.

My understanding is that corporate sponsors drive most of Epcot - lack of sponsorship resulting in withering of pavilions.

Regarding Norway - the Storybook Princesses enhanced the popularity of Akershus but thankfully we still have a little bit of Norway in the menu. I'll put up with princess mania to get my smoked and pickled fish fix.

However, Maelstrom lines have always been healthy when I've been there waiting to ride.

What benefit does the addition/switch to Frozen for Maelstrom have for the Norway sponsor(s)?

And how popular was Frozen in Norway anyway? It's not like it followed Mr Anderson's story much.

Jan

Maelstrom without characters: 20 minute wait.

"Maelstrom" with Ana and Elsa: 90 minute wait.